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M S Smith

MSS Signing Off

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"Anyway, what I really dont get in all of this is why our cultures brainwash us into being so conceited that we think its our duty to run around judging people on stuff that is clearly none of our business"

i dont want to comment on mss at all but this a pretty bad attitude. do you look at things like the rotherham grooming gangs and say "hey man not my place to judge, whatever floats your socks off"? no, if it's happening in my community yes it is my place to judge and I judge it abhorrent behaviour and completely not acceptable. 

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I've chipped in a bit throughout this thread but I really don't wanna judge the crap out of him.

 

I was literally just dealing with the shock of it. Having said that I think it's fine to express ones feelings and one's distain even outrage over such things.

 

It is fascinating how society deals with this issue though.

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22 hours ago, Auxin said:

Hes american, so no, they cant.

Its a very taboo crime here. Its prosecuted more harshly than premeditated multiple homicide in some instances, especially in cases where there was any real world contact with kids, but even people who just download can go to prison longer than a murderer. People are killed just for downloading pics here. Only an imbecile would turn himself in in MSS's country, even if it were to seek 'help'. In my state there is actually an island prison where they are shipped to, the guards main job is to make sure people dont come in and murder the inmates.

 

Another thing about being american, our laws defining 'child' are very screwey. In 5/6ths of america girls can be old enough to legally have sex with and yet any picture of them is prosecuted as child porn and can send you to prison [pornography laws were made at the federal level, so set to the highest age of consent- 18, sex laws are state level, in 2/3 the country the legal age for sex is 16 and in 1/6th of the country its 17]. In some cases the girls could even be fully clothed. The girls you bed legally in australia could be in the same 'child' age range in the US.

 

Torrent was a good point, a mistaken download could very easily happen. When a major blockbuster film came out a friend of mine downloaded a cam recording of the movie from a P2P site, or she thought she did, what she actually got was a movie length dutch bestiality video.

In the digital age 800 pics doesnt even get someone counted as a collector, and internet cache counts in prosecutions. Read the news, collectors are busted with hundreds of thousands of images and videos. This isnt 1970.

If its true he was given probation he must have been so minor that the prosecutor didnt even see him as a pedo, his prosecution may have just been a technicality for christ sake. And yet his supposed friends here condemn him.

Interesting.

Help for pedophiles... 

http://www.asapinternational.org/index.html

https://www.virped.org

https://pedo.help

 

I see a lot of assumptions here as to what must be when the facts are clear enough for most to discern. Pedophilia should be a taboo crime everywhere. Children are not able to defend themselves in the same manner as an adult. That is just the bottom line. Those who would choose to make light of pedophilia make me sick.

 

Now, there is a huge difference between having urges and acting on those urges. 

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/facts-about-child-sexual-abuse-statistics-3533871

 

Of all victims of sexual assault reported to law enforcement agencies

Edited by Inyan
sources
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it is fascinating how society deals with it or not ... and yet revealling , i obviously live in a lower standard place for that crap : / and here people who are heard of doing what is said of michael tend to be repeat offenders that often get re-caught just by violating court orders against deleting their internet history or using other's connections to escape the radar .. and usually only make local news and then sparsely

 

is this signs of different gear lever pullers at work above the rafters? or is that a prethunk intended perception herding ?

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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Auxin, would you feel the same way if it were you or your children in the child porn photos? Would your sense of the pedo being a "nice guy" still override the fact that it is an exploitative and fucked up practice that inevitably damages the children (and those around them), sometimes for life?

 

I don't think being a nice guy who is helpful overrides the shady shit that that supposedly "nice guy" does. That said, there have been some good points made in the thread about how this could be a misunderstanding, and we don't have enough information to be sure about what happened. If we did, though, and it is as straightforward as it seems, I don't think we should be making excuses just because we've benefitted from "knowing" him on an internet forum.

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Let us hope he has learned his lesson and ceases to engage in such activities.

 

Edited by Inyan

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hmm.thumb.png.50c811362fdaa32160795612059ad4fb.png

I'll believe the above was a misunderstanding when I start to believe that the government is always corrupt and picking on the nice guys. Until then I'll believe the charges as they stand. Now, if I see evidence and not mere conjecture to the contrary I am all ears. 

hmm.thumb.png.50c811362fdaa32160795612059ad4fb.png

hmm.thumb.png.50c811362fdaa32160795612059ad4fb.png

Edited by Inyan
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3 hours ago, ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ said:

i respect your insight and far far from the first time but what if you were the kinda person who wanted to ask to clarify from the horses mouth and see what their side of the story is?

If MSS does actually come back here and wants to clarify the incident, power to him, I'd read the post. Like I said, if someone chooses to share something I'll listen.

If he came back and someone wanted to politely ask what all that arrest stuff was about, I wouldnt view that as wrong.

Its everything in between now and then that I find odd. Not specifically wrong, just odd.

3 hours ago, DiscoStu said:

"Anyway, what I really dont get in all of this is why our cultures brainwash us into being so conceited that we think its our duty to run around judging people on stuff that is clearly none of our business"

i dont want to comment on mss at all but this a pretty bad attitude. do you look at things like the rotherham grooming gangs and say "hey man not my place to judge, whatever floats your socks off"? no, if it's happening in my community yes it is my place to judge and I judge it abhorrent behaviour and completely not acceptable. 

If it were me or my children in the photos then it would be my business and I would proceed from there.

There tends to be this fundamental mistake people make, thinking that forgiveness or even just minding ones own business is the same as permission for the crime. Its not. You can forgive something bad while acknowledging the act was still bad. You can leave a situation up to the people designated to deal with it without sanctioning the crime.

I've never heard of the rotherham grooming gangs, and its probably none of my business, but if they were hurting people then no, I dont think its good. There are people designated to deal with it. Cops, lawyers, and judges. Its not my place to judge or prosecute.

This is not apathy, anarchy, or complicity. Its practicality.

1) none of my business, 2) I almost certainly wouldnt have all the relevant facts, so any judgement would be unbalanced anyway 3) I simply dont want to waste the energy being expected to get worked up and opinionated over every thing that happens in the world. I'm always seeing people working themselves up into a froth over things that dont impact them in any way whatsoever. Remember OJ Simpson? Or whats-her-name who had her boob pop out at a sporting event? If you had harnessed the wasted energy of so many people beating their chest and shouting an opinion you could have sent that bloody glove to Mars!

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"There are people designated to deal with it. Cops, lawyers, and judges. Its not my place to judge or prosecute."

 

you should read into it and see it was precisely these people that were allowing child abuse to go on for DECADES . Ill leave it here cos youll mistake my anger for being directed at you when its not. You might not think its your busoness but to me that reads like turning a blind eye which to me is not acceptable when dealing with abuse of our most vulnerable

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Auxin, I see where you’re coming from. I think that its a US cultural thing to live and let live as long as you’re not directly affected. It’s individualistic. Having a boob pop out is absoultely not the same thing as we’re discussing, and I’m pretty sure if you posted a thread about it there wouldn’t be much moralising in the responses. 

 

Social pressures exert a huge force on how we behave. They help form our ideas about what is acceptable and not, even when we consciously disagree with them. When people speak up en masse about something, it shapes and reinforces how everyone thinks about it. There’s a reason for the outrage, and there’s a purpose to it. And it’s different from never forgiving someone, or not offering them support to reform or rehabilitate. Condemnation of an act, forgiveness for it, and reform support are not contradictory.

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rotherham gangs are a network of pedos .. in a town called rotherham in the uk .. that swipe kids off the streets and the social services just loves to use them as an example in their work and why they must be there to facilitate the gangs kinda behaviour more or less , its one of their twists of something real so they can convince their own sick reality is ok somehow because of the other one - especially the feminist ones who dont really do any work and just make it up as they go along using rotherham as some kinda trump card in convo and probably use it to elevate themselves socially as some kind of sick heroin of children's perceived rights and their loving families rights ...

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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To many, MSS was something of a cacti god if you will. With that said, I would hate for him to use this platform of notoriety to prey on the children of other members here he might visit. Knowledge is power and in this case it is the power to protect oneself and others from a pedophile.

 

With that said, social pressures can indeed produce conformity to an expected norm. For me, I can not simply turn a blind eye to pedophiles in my midst. Perhaps some can, but I can not. I must exert whatever little power I may have to denounce such behaviors. There is indeed power in social pressure and the more people who are willing to simply ignore or turn a blind eye to this egregious act for which he was charged the less influence there will be to change his behaviors. 

 

Now, if you disagree feel free to disagree. I however won't be complacent in my remarks or feelings and I will not be a force of normalizing pedophile type behaviors or acts in any way shape or form.

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The act of abuse should be differentiated from the pedophilia itself..

 

"Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.[1][2]Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12,[3] criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.[1] A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years old, and at least five years older than the prepubescent child, for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilia.[1][2]

Pedophilia is termed pedophilic disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), and the manual defines it as a paraphilia involving intense and recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about prepubescent children that have either been acted upon or which cause the person with the attraction distress or interpersonal difficulty.[1] The International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10) defines it as a sexual preference for children of prepubertal or early pubertal age.[4]

In popular usage, the word pedophilia is often applied to any sexual interest in children or the act of child sexual abuse.[5][6] This use conflates the sexual attraction to prepubescent children with the act of child sexual abuse, and fails to distinguish between attraction to prepubescent and pubescent or post-pubescent minors.[7][8]Researchers recommend that these imprecise uses be avoided because although people who commit child sexual abuse are sometimes pedophiles,[6][9] child sexual abuse offenders are not pedophiles unless they have a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children,[7][10][11] and some pedophiles do not molest children.[12]"

 

 

 

The choice to abuse is a choice that should have consequences of punishment, as well as the choice to murder or steal..

The persecution of people with certain type of fantasies or any type of fantasy is a persecution upon the human fantasy itself!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by mysubtleascention
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I have no sympathy for pedophiles, but i think there are definitely different levels of harm and the legal and judicial systems largely recognises this. The penalties for owning an image of a 17 year old are different to owning one of a 5 year old. I also find it odd that many people with very strong views on pedophilia have no issue with 'barely legal' porn which is often not actually legal. It is one of the most popular porn categories, so there is a bit of a disconnect between what the cultural expectations are publicly vs privately. ie many people are hypocrites. And because of this it is possible to unknowingly be in possession of pedophile material. There is a well known story of a 15 year old gay porn actor who scammed his way into the industry with fake ID and later used this deception as leverage. It was even turned into a movie. Anyone owning these releases is technically a pedophile and is breaking the law. Yet how many 'consumers' would even know this?

I've read several articles about MSS and while I absolutely disagree with Auxin that such offences are none of our business, I recommend people look at the details before getting on their high horses. He downloaded a torrent. The torrent contained some images of minors.
We don't know the age of these minors. Let's assume this was one of those questionable collections of 'barely legal' porn that had been identified by the authorities as being younger than barely legal. if so then MSS did nothing more than most porn consumers who are into that category. His only problem was that the torrent download was traced. If you're  a porn downloader, have you checked your HDD to make sure you don't have the same torrent? Is all your porn definitely legal? I know I did a clean up of my porn collection about 10 years ago and found plenty of stuff in torrents I didn't think was appropriate. Stuff I had never looked at before - hadn't even opened the zips. I doubt many people do that, but I was expecting to get raided for other things, so it seemed prudent. Realistically, having some 'slightly' underage porn on your computer is almost inevitable unless you're only into oldies, simply because the industry is geared that way.

On the other hand, if MSS had images of 5 year olds being violated then I hope they throw away the key. And this is really where I find the law and the sex offender register is coming up short. There are no 'mistakes' with 5 year olds. But we have no way of knowing. That's why I haven't posted about this before. I find that judging him on the basis of the incomplete information is problematic because it leaves open a range from 'I hope he doesn't make it out alive' to 'unlucky bastard getting caught for what everyone else is doing'.

Obviously the fact that he was a social worker in the mid teen age group isn't a good thing either, but like the articles state, there is no suggestion he ever behaved inappropriately at work. And as a consequence he won't be able to work in his career again, and appears to have lost his house and family over this too. So the punishment is far more than just whatever time he is spending in jail.

Now go and clean up your porn drives before throwing stones :P
 

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2 hours ago, Torsten said:

...while I absolutely disagree with Auxin that such offences are none of our business...

To be clear, that part of my message I was trying to convey was stated far out of proportion, probably my fault.

It was my least point.

My primary point that seems to have been lost was how everyone jumps up and down, shouting, pounding their chest, and generally egoing all over the subject any time something like this [or anything, really] happens.

It seems degrading to the person doing that display, its inherently distorting and caricaturizing of the target of those rants, it can even put that person [who may be innocent] at risk of serious harm, and its just downright creepy because in any subject the people who rant and rave and ego all over the place includes all the closet cases.

Are we really so weak of character and desperate for definition to our ego that we have to make a big spectacle about every damn thing?

Do we really have to waste so much energy to no productive, or at least positive, effect?

Do we absolutely have to make life a worse hell for people whos lives already are being made hell, are we so petty?

Do you really want to risk making people suspect your a closet case, whether you are one or not?

 

Its not lack of caring, or some largely mythological american hyper-individualism that keeps me from getting on a soap box about the evilness of pedos, or whatever the news item of the day is.

I look at it more like maturity and self respect. Or at least a measure of perspective on things.

As an american, this Really stood out for me when 9/11 happened. The morning of, I was a little disoriented like everyone. 'Are we under attack, whats going on, who did it.' But within a week I was genuinely frightened. Not because of any terrorism threat, I knew that wasnt a serious danger to me. I was afraid of everyone around me who was ranting and raving and acting like meth addled egotistical spoiled 14 year olds with guns. The american response to 9/11 was infantile and humiliating. The whole world knew it. But everyone does the same thing about Every issue that comes up!

 

Your business, not your business. That judgement doesnt really make a big difference if the response is measured, mature, well informed, and done out of fairness and not a self serving display of egoism.

 

And I agree with Torsten, any big amateur content collection torrent is likely to have questionable stuff. Its no doubt happened to many of us here. I stopped getting those type of torrents long ago for that very reason.

But, as Torsten said, even the good shit from pay sites isnt 100% safe.

Thats why MSS's bust was none of my business. It was most likely a common internet accident that was a tragedy only for him.

I'm sorry theres little chance of people letting you stay in this community, MSS. It was good ta know ya.

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I call a spade a spade. If one is convicted of a crime I assume you must be guilty of that crime. The tragedy is that some would love to live in an ideal world that wasn't shattered by the realization that despite what we might all like to believe... when one is tried and convicted one is generally guilty. That is not to say there are not exceptions to the rule as we have all heard of people who have been wrongly imprisoned. 

 

With that said, public disapproval is a strong a motivator for not engaging in acts of pedophilia. I would find it very strange indeed if the public here did not judge pedophilia harshly and with that being said those that were convicted of it. Sure, it is easy to make excuses and hope that someone we once admired was not a pedophile and was wrongly accused, but then one would have to ask... why would his family leave him if he was truly innocent? If your own family doesn't trust you... how the heck can you expect acquaintances over the net to trust you? The truth is a convicted killer might be wrongfully imprisoned, but be that as it may... would you trust that convicted killer to baby sit your children? Some things you simply do not bounce back from without evidence to clear your name. With that being said, I truly don't wish to hear any sob stories about how the pictures were of this age or that or anything else that can't be substantiated. I certainly won't make excuses for anyone no matter how much I might have liked them prior to learning about their pedophilia. I also truly do hope he gets the help he needs. Having had to bring in an Army SGT for viewing pictures of pedophiles on a government computer not so many years to the local police I have an awareness that pedophiles are often those you least suspect as the Army SGT I brought in was a female.

 

What mental health experts have learned is that when someone (90% of the offenders are male) becomes addicted to child pornography, they usually progress to younger and younger children and will seek out more sadistic or masochistic images, and in extreme cases, bestiality.

In a study by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children of the people arrested for child pornography; 40% also had raped children along with possessing child pornography.

In 82% of online sex crimes against minors, the offender used the victim’s social networking site to gain information about the victim’s likes and dislikes.

65% of online sex offenders used the victim’s social networking site to gain home and school information about the victim.

26% of online sex offenders used the victim’s social networking site to gain information about the victim’s whereabouts at a specific time.

 

With these stats being the case... I think we would all be remise for not chastising Michael. I find it better to err on the side of caution where it concerns children than not.... but then I have children. http://www.thedemandproject.org/Statistics.aspx

 

Over 800 child pornography pictures is not an accident in my book. Apparently the law agrees as does his family if they have left him.

 

Edited by Inyan

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I think there's some fluff stuck in my axle for posting that without reading your post fully and apologize for not doing so and trigger firing a response .

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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This thread is troubling. I understand loyalty to your friends, but were do you draw the line. There are people on here actually judging people for being too judgemental of this guy.

There are people claiming it is non of anyone business, sticking up for those that can't stick up for them selves is everybody's business.

There are people on here saying we don't know what really happened.

What we know is a forensic audit of his computer was presented to the court. This would have shown if he accidentally downloaded a torrent then deleted it. It would of even shown if it was hard to tell the age of the subjects. If this was the case a half decent, government appointed, lawyer could have got him off. The court documents show he paid for a private lawyer.  

There are people on here stating that he may be innocent. Yet with that private lawyer, he chose to plead guilty. We may not know exactly what happened, but he does. He would not have made this choice lightly. The moment he said that word, not only was his career over, he also condemned his colleges and clients to intense scrutiny.

Everyday I work with the victims of people like this, many of them have friends or family that knew what was going on, but did nothing. They all whine some excuse that justifies it to themselves. I don't bother listening , because the truth is none of the excuses matter. The only thing that matters is that they did nothing.

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 If MS could reply to all this then we'd get a clearer picture of this troubling issue.

 

A lot of it is speculation without his side of the story. I can't imagine well ever get it either. If  he ever comes back it prolly won't be under the nams MSSmith. I'm willing to accept that there could be more to the story that we don't know.

 

He's prolly 'guilty as charged' right, but he may possibly be half innocent or even completely innocent. I've now accepted that that is an actual (slight) possibility but I guess we'll never really know unless he speaks up about it. 

 

But why would he, even if he WAS more or less 'innocent', most people would never treat him the same ever again anyway.

 

Maybe he can get some info through via the grapevine etc. I wish him all the best in the future, and I certainly do hope he is not guilty of anything really bad.

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3 hours ago, Halcyon Daze said:

 If MS could reply to all this then we'd get a clearer picture of this troubling issue.

 

A lot of it is speculation without his side of the story. I can't imagine well ever get it either. If  he ever comes back it prolly won't be under the nams MSSmith. I'm willing to accept that there could be more to the story that we don't know.

 

He's prolly 'guilty as charged' right, but he may possibly be half innocent or even completely innocent. I've now accepted that that is an actual (slight) possibility but I guess we'll never really know unless he speaks up about it. 

 

But why would he, even if he WAS more or less 'innocent', most people would never treat him the same ever again anyway.

 

Maybe he can get some info through via the grapevine etc. I wish him all the best in the future, and I certainly do hope he is not guilty of anything really bad.

I hope your not saying that if MS was to come here and claim innocence and had a good story to tell that people would simply believe that over a court ruling? The evidence has been presented and ruled on and that is enough for me until actual evidence clears MS. With that being said, I'd be willing to bet you could walk into any prison and find criminals willing to tell you they have never done the crime they were convicted of or there was some legitimate reason for them conducting the crime. I'm sorry, but that is how I feel. I wouldn't let a convicted pedophile anywhere near my kids regardless of how great their story was after they were convicted in a court of law without actual hard evidence showing their innocence. 

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What I said is right there^ check it out sometime LOL. Look, the only point I'm making is it would have been good to get more info/ his take on the story.

 

Can't be 100% sure of anything with only half the story.

 

Seems like there could be more to it but we'll prolly never know.

 

Edited by Halcyon Daze

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On 24/01/2018 at 8:35 PM, Halcyon Daze said:

I wish him all the best in the future

I wish his victims all the best,. I hope those that have not already taken their own lives, eventually get over their ordeal.

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As in the context of the entire post. Don't worry tho I kinda wish everyone the best really. The 'best' for MS prolly just means full rehabilitation or whatever and a chance for repentance etc. I do wish that upon him and I also wish it upon any victims and I also wish it upon you too.

 

Happy enough with the disclaimer?

 

I'd STILL prefer to know both sides of the story before pulling the trigger though. I'm sure justice has been served. But does that mean he's a full blown pedophile with no hope of ever becoming a changed man? How can we make such far- reaching judgements without even knowing his account of what happened?

 

Or is that just a concept too outlandish for us to wrap our heads around?

Edited by Halcyon Daze
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