Hi (New Member Intro)

[starling]

Hello everyone.

I'm a collector of fruiting cacti based in brisbane. I collect mostly hylocereus (dragonfruit) and opuntia. In the case of the former, I believe I have one of the largest collections in Australia. I also collect rare tropical fruits, and am an experienced international seed trader. I have obout 150 different species last time I checked. I don't do that much anymore because frankly I'd rather not know.

Looking forward to trading cuttings and seeds. At this stage I'm after epiphyllums mostly.

I see that this site has an undercurrent of cactus consumption for recreational use--I have no interest in such things, mostly because:

A) I'm a buddhist (one not fit to wear the yellow robe, however) and part of that involves not affecting the mind through substances, including alcohol.

I've never met anyone who helped themselves by indulging in recreational drugs. Ever. Certainly they didn't help me. I also do not think that drugs increase creative potential. Hunter S thompson would have been Hunter S thompson if he had been a T totaller. Jimmy Hendrix would have been Jimmy Hendrix without that phial of Acid around his neck, too. If drugs made creative genuises, then every crackhead would be salvador dali.

That said, I have no moral issues with people doing that, and it's not up to me to dictate terms to others--given my own history, this would only make me a hypocrite. And when it comes to issues of illegality, I follow the code of Corvus Oculum Corvi non eruit.

Thanks guys

starling

[M S Smith]

Stateside here, and nothing to offer you plant-wise, but I have a feeling you'll have me hanging on every word of yours if you post in the spirituality/philosophy forum. Welcome.

~Michael~

Edited August 16, 2015 by M S Smith

[zelly]

Welcome to the forum mate.

There are many different cacti/succulent growers, collectors & enthusiasts here and a person shouldnt assume most are using various plants recreationally. Some people just like to collect them, like collecting beer bottle caps.

Looking forward to trading cuttings and seeds. At this stage I'm after epiphyllums mostly.

I grow a bunch of epi's, have cross bred them & produced fruits, and then basically ignored them as very few people wants to mess with growing epi's from seed, myself included.

Here's a thought, post up a few threads on your dragon fruit collection & rare fruits? Pictures of everything.

Growers in my area claim to have purple flesh dragon fruits; I would love to see pics of yours if you have some.

cheers

[starling]

Welcome to the forum mate.

There are many different cacti/succulent growers, collectors & enthusiasts here and a person shouldnt assume most are using various plants recreationally. Some people just like to collect them, like collecting beer bottle caps.

I grow a bunch of epi's, have cross bred them & produced fruits, and then basically ignored them as very few people wants to mess with growing epi's from seed, myself included.

Here's a thought, post up a few threads on your dragon fruit collection & rare fruits? Pictures of everything.

Growers in my area claim to have purple flesh dragon fruits; I would love to see pics of yours if you have some.

cheers

Zelly,

Thanks mate. There are a few common H. Undatus type hybrid purples getting around the traps, I have some I can trade right now if you're interested as I just pruned my big one and I've got cuttings out the wazoo. Some have even been bred in Australia at places like red fox and Tamborine DF Farm. The best Aussie purple I've tried is the variety called 'Aztec Gem' bred by Bernice at red fox--difficult to imagine a better tasting dragon. I'll upload pics a little later but here's my general list of American CV's that I'm growing--most are small and yet to fruit.

cosmic charlie

rixford

purple haze

pink panther

physical graffiti

sin espinas

florida red sweet

dark star

frankie's red

halley's comet (not looking good!)

American beauty

Edgar's baby

jam baby

zamorano

voodoo child

that's all I can recall off the top of my head. I'll do a thread a bit later detailing how I grow them.

And if you have, or have encountered any epi's that produce good fruit or are self pollinating, I'd definitely be interested in purchasing some.

[Wocket]

Welcome! You sound like you have a pretty cool collection, I would also like to see some threads on your fruit. Dragonfruit has such nice colors. I only have three kinds of hylocereus(that haven't fruited) and would like to know more about the plants.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Wocket

[Strontium Dawg]

I've had terrible luck trying to grow hylocereus. Whenever I intentionally try to grow them specifically they get orange rot. Whenever I throw cuttings away in the garden, they seem to grow ok, but they're in the place I don't want them. Maybe I'm trying too hard!

[starling]

Well, in Sydney you're both pretty marginal for them--but they will grow there. The Vietnamese giant white is the most cold hardy and toughest by a long way. Selenicereus megalanthus (which people refer to as the yellow dragon) is also pretty tough, surprisingly. I'm not a fan of it though as it tastes a little weird to me.

The orange rot is some kind of rust, I get it too. Copper sprays, adequate light and air circulation is the key to keeping it under control, but it's par for the course. The best way to pot them up is in 50% seed raising mix and washed river sand. Alternatively I'm experimenting with a soiless substrate made of peat moss, vermiculite, coir and pearlite. Jury is still out for me on this though.

The main mistake pep,e make with dragonfruit is trying to push them along with nitrogen based fertlizers--bad, bad idea. No cactacea in existence will fruit well, if at all, in nitrogen rich soil, not even jungle species like hylocereus. They should be fertilized once a year with something very cool--like weak powerfeed. Trace elements and mineral based liquid nutes are better--just nothing nitrogen rich,

Edited August 17, 2015 by starling

[Philocacti]

Hi there

I've never met anyone who helped themselves by indulging in recreational drugs. Ever.

Thanks guys

starling

I'm glad to be the first you met ;)

[katu]

Hi Starling welcome to the forums,

it looks like you have a impressive collection and I look forward to trading with you in the future.

But....Well first and foremost I agree with Zelly, the vast majority of members on this forum are collectors, why else would their be so many cv.'s of Trichocereus and what not if it were otherwise. Wouldn't one just get a decent bridgesii and mass clone it, similar to how I imagine dope growers operate. What about all the threads on other cacti. orchids and the like.

And with all due respect, If one were to consume a Psychedelic drug in any form in order to communicate with god or what they perceive to be, how is that any different to your path. Psychedelics are not "recreational" as you put it. They are sacraments. And there are various people from all different walks(PHD Scientists, Shamans, Buddhists) that would agree with me.

I don't believe for a minute that Hendrix or any of the artists of that era would of achieved the heights they did in terms of expression if it were not for acid. LSD was the catalyst for the 60's movement. Just because you yourself felt that drugs "didn't help you" why assume it of others?

I recently watched a talk on the parallels between traditional Psychedelic use and Meditation that featured a number of prominent doctorate holding scientists and Tibetan Monks. Both sides came to the conclusion that they were different paths to the same ends.

I'm sorry if this came out overly aggressive, it was not my intention, but your post just seems a little self righteous for a buddhist.

[glimpse]

^^^^this^^^^^

but hello and a very warm welcome starling

looking forward to seeing lots'n'lotsa sexy dragonfruit pics

you met Hunter S Thompson and Jimi Hendrix.....that must have been cool

;)

[DiscoStu]

“Many paths lead from the foot of the mountain, but at the peak we all gaze at the single bright moon.” - Ikkyu

[starling]

Hi Starling welcome to the forums,

it looks like you have a impressive collection and I look forward to trading with you in the future.

But....Well first and foremost I agree with Zelly, the vast majority of members on this forum are collectors, why else would their be so many cv.'s of Trichocereus and what not if it were otherwise. Wouldn't one just get a decent bridgesii and mass clone it, similar to how I imagine dope growers operate. What about all the threads on other cacti. orchids and the like.

And with all due respect, If one were to consume a Psychedelic drug in any form in order to communicate with god or what they perceive to be, how is that any different to your path. Psychedelics are not "recreational" as you put it. They are sacraments. And there are various people from all different walks(PHD Scientists, Shamans, Buddhists) that would agree with me.

I don't believe for a minute that Hendrix or any of the artists of that era would of achieved the heights they did in terms of expression if it were not for acid. LSD was the catalyst for the 60's movement. Just because you yourself felt that drugs "didn't help you" why assume it of others?

I recently watched a talk on the parallels between traditional Psychedelic use and Meditation that featured a number of prominent doctorate holding scientists and Tibetan Monks. Both sides came to the conclusion that they were different paths to the same ends.

I'm sorry if this came out overly aggressive, it was not my intention, but your post just seems a little self righteous for a buddhist.

I had not intended to create a debate--I'm sorry, I cannot participate in one. But I will try to answer your questions:

On point A, what I was attempting to explain (and failed to do so) was that Hunter S thompson and Hendrix would have, I believe, have become respectively great irrespective of whether or not they indulged in LSD, because they were both intrinsically talented. It may be the case that Acid orientated the type of work they produced (I'm sure it must have) but I cannot accept that this made them exceptional Artists. My reasoning is if it that were they case...well, there would be a lot more Thompson's and Hendrixes.

On point B, I did mean to imply that this forum was designed solely to cater to recreational users--I just denoted that this isn't something I'm interested in, having thought to best to get this out of the way initially. I don't think this was an unreasonable step, given that I was assigned a rank as a day tripper upon joining . This was a mistake; it is better to first identify how people are similar before identifying how we are different.

On point C, I must disagree with respect to buddhism and psychotropic substance use. Maintaining a pure mind is integral to buddhism, and abstinence is practiced in all temples across all regions and cultures where buddhism exists. Drug use of any kind--even consumption of alcohol, is irreconcilable with the tenets of buddhism, and someone who does this would be considered to have walked off the path. I have not seen the documentary, but I will watch it if you provide a link. I must also add that I did try and explain that I have no moral issues with drug use and am a former user, and that if the reverse was true, that would constitute hypocrisy on my behalf. I mean, and say this with total respect--I think it might be worth considering why my post caused annoyance, or anger. I think you might have interpreted it as a criticism of your values and practices. Please believe me when I say I have no agenda in anything being proven as right or wrong--such things rarely ever occur to me, anymore. That was not my intention. Again, it is not within my right, or power, to solicit advice, or to dictate moral values. I can offer a perspective on an issue which can be accepted or rejected, in either case I will not be offended, nor proud. My goal is to reduce suffering for others and myself as much as possible--everything else is commentary. I will try and explain my position further:

Cacti, and other plants have, the way I see it, evolved different compounds which elicit different psychoactive effects when ingested by human beings, but they did not evolve them for this purpose--quite the opposite, they evolved them as deterrents to stop things eating them--in the same way as they developed, in some cases, glochids. It is for this reason that all cacti fruits are edible ( I believe). They want things to eat those to disperse seeds, ensuring their genes are carried into the future through successive generations. They did not evolve such compounds so that in the distant future bipedate hominoids could cultivate them for their psychoactive affects....this would imply sentience, and prophecy.It appears to me to be the case that when someone eats a plant which contains a psychoactive substance that is designed to deter something from eating it, that person is doing precisely the opposite of what is intended by the presence of said compound. Those chemicals are much older than God--or the concept of God. Also, it would be dishonest of me not to confess that I do think some people indulge in such things for purposes of gratification and probably nothing more. I think surely this must happen.

On the question of communicating with God, the question of whether or not God exists is of little importance to a buddhist, and it is for this reason that no buddhist would attempt to communicate with God--this does not factor into the equation. I am, for example, of the belief that God does not exist in a creator sense, or as a judiciary, in the judo-christian type sense of God.I think when I die, my bones will simply lie beneath the Earth, unconsidered by anybody or anything, beneath indifferent stars which have always looked down in indifference. I believe we are evolved apes, because that is just what the evidence suggests. This belief does not preclude me from being buddhist, and if I believed the opposite, neither would that. Irrespective of whether the soul, or spirit exists, we must all live and suffer the material, physical world--and the social one.Buddhism is a practical philosophy designed to help deal with that--not a theology in the strict sense.

I hope this goes some way in explaining my initial post. I am apologize for any offense caused. Yes I am always open to trades, it will help if you tell me what you're looking for and vice versa. I have a pretty substantial network of fellow traders international and can get many species, unfortunately not many cacti as they aren't very popular seemingly in my circle. Probably the rarest I have is stenocereus gummosus. I tried for some S Qeretaroensis seeds but they were destrpoed by customs.

thankyou

starling

Edited August 17, 2015 by starling

[mysubtleascention]

daydream -

upon

.. entry

joint !

Edited August 17, 2015 by mysubtleascention

[Berengar]

I've never met anyone who helped themselves by indulging in recreational drugs. Ever.

What some would consider a 'recreational drug' others might consider a powerful medicine. For example, if it wasn't for the help of a certain 'psychedelic' compound, I would never be able to get rid of my severe 15 year long depression, and would very likely be dead by now. Not trying to argue or belittle your views, just saying there can be another side to those 'drugs'. For the record, I don't use any drugs anymore, recreational or otherwise, because I no longer feel the need for them.

As far as cacti go, I wouldn't call myself a 'collector', I just love growing them for their beauty and powerful life force, without any desire to 'use' them, and I honestly believe many here feel the same.

[Sallubrious]

Hi Starling

Just for a bit of contrast.

Some of the oldest forms of Buddhism refer to the sacramental use of drugs in their writings.

Vajrayāna Buddhists used the sacrament amrita also referred to as the elixir of life which was said to be consumed from skull caps of dead lamas.

Some scholars have stated that the original amrita was a mixture containing psilocybe mushrooms. It seems to be supported by the references to amrita in the Hindu scripture the Rigvida where it seems to be used as an allegory for soma - a word with several meanings relating to plants and divinity.

There's been a lot of speculation and debate over this issue over the years. I'm not stating that drug use is an intrinsic part of some forms of Buddhism but there seems to be some indication that drugs may have been consumed in some schools of Buddhist teaching.

20 grams of cubes was the only thing has ever switched my ego off entirely

[starling]

Thankyou everyone, but I am not sure that this is the right site for me. Can a mod please close my account? I will take down my listing in the buy & sell section now.

[Anodyne]

Hey starling, no need to leave! There are people of all viewpoints here, as long as they all respect the rules & each other, they are all welcome. There are many members like yourself who are interested only in growing plants or studying ethnobotany theoretically. You're absolutely able to participate only in the trade area - if you don't want to have philosophical debates there is no need to respond to those posts (though it does help if you didn't start the discussion!

But if you do decide to close your account, it will be helpful to send a message to a moderator (listed on the main index page i think?) to draw their attention to it. alternatively you can self-report any of the posts you've made & just add a note explaining.

I hope you stay though, you've only had a few responses, no need to think they are a representative sample - they're just the noisy ones - there are thousands of lurkers who rarely post at all. Why not stick around awhile longer & see how it goes?

[waterboy 2.0]

Why Starling?

you made some pretty broad assumptions, and a broad range of views were expressed in response.

No one is pushing you away mate

[Slocombe]

Your loss starling.

My experience/opinion of this forum is that more goes on here than people eating cacti and tripping. It's mostly about growing plants and less about what people do with them later.

I don't see why you can't just enjoy the bits of this forum you're interested in while ignoring the bits you aren't interested in. That's what most everyone else seems to do, whether or not they ever consume the fruits of their labour.

Edited August 17, 2015 by BeerAlternative

[Sallubrious]

I'm sorry if I offended you with what I posted Starling.

I really didn't intend to offend you.

Don't leave because of something I've written. You seem like you could really contribute to this forum.

If it was because of me, I will stay out of your threads and promise to never post anything contrary to your viewpoint again.

[glimpse]

Thankyou everyone, but I am not sure that this is the right site for me. Can a mod please close my account? I will take down my listing in the buy & sell section now.

lest ye get swept away in an "undercurrent of cactus consumption for recreational use"

A) i wouldn't eat my babies for recreational use........we've been through too much together.....

..................There will be no B

Edited August 17, 2015 by glimpse

[Anodyne]

I think also that we're so used to all the debate & banter that goes on around here that when someone expresses an opinion, we automatically take it as a cue to start debating, where I think all starling was saying was "hi, this is who I am".

But keep in mind starling that discussion of cactus-eating is a valid ethnobotanical topic - please don't assume that everyone talking about it is actually doing it themselves. And even discussions on that particular topic are very restricted by forum rules, as discussion of illegal activity is generally not tolerated. But at the end of the day we're mostly here because we like plants - or something about them, whether this be their fruits or scents or appearance or medicinal value or monetary value - we all share this interest, and some great friendships spring from this one little thing in common. It's quite amazing, really.

[Roopey]

I really like his theory that Jimi and Hunter would have been amazing artists without psychedelics. This is probably true, but would they have been the pop culture sensations that touched an entire generation? Not so sold on that.

Here's a good one, what about the obvious affects of opiates on singing? Janis, Kurt, Amy; all good examples throughout time of people who quite clearly used heroine to become amazing vocalists. Now the question is simple, are amazing vocalists just attracted to heroine? Or does heroine make amazing vocalists?

Also, and I'm really not trying to start a fight, I am just curious here, what about the theory that the Tibetan Book of the Dead is clearly a guidebook for shamanic psychedelic experiences?

Where do you draw the line? Is putting your body through extensive fasting and lethargy (sitting around all day) not a method of affecting the mind through substances as you are releasing certain tryptamine compounds in your brain when you do this? If you eat an apple, and it makes you feel good, isn't that you altering your mind with a substance? There is no food that you can consume that will not affect your mind with a substance, everything you eat affects your mood and your body. So, where is the line? Is it based on how drastically it can affect your mind? How do you then determine which are OK and which are not?

Edited August 17, 2015 by Roopey

[Evil Genius]

Hi Guys, I moved this thread because it felt like it was more of a general introduction thread than a pure cactus thread. Apart from this, I´d like everybody to chill out and not argue.

Starling, a lot of people on here grow Epi Hybrids. I germinate them from seed and start about 30-50 Epi hybrid crosses per year. It´s an amazing type of plant and I am happy for everyone who grows them. I am in Germany and I sometimes give cuttings away here. Seeds too but it will take me a while until I will give some away again. I am currently sowing all of them right away to increase the quality of my stock.

I felt like your post might have hit a nerve in some of the members here, because this forum has one of the strictest rules when it´s about cactus ingestion and potency. Posts about anything like that will be removed and that´s why your initial posting kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I was absolutely not offended, just felt there´s a whole more to the picture and if you take the time to get to known this great community, I am sure you will see that as well. So yeah, no need for justifying why you are not interested in ethnobotancial plants. There are many members other members who aren´t either. Yes, there may be people who grow them for recreational purposes but I know a lot of them (including me) who just grow them because they are kickass cacti.

So yeah, welcome to the forum. Please chill down everybody. There are so many different people under this "roof" and sometimes, people can agree and disagree at the same time, without having to argue. Maybe we can start this all over again without assuming or getting offended over something that was probably not meant in an insulting way to begin with. bye Eg

Edited August 17, 2015 by Evil Genius

[mystical oyster]

Hi starling, welcome! There are people from all walks of life here, ive been enjoying reading your posts. Hope you stick around