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ace1928

Even spiritual folk aren't free from corruption

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Just replacing the posts as they are removed

Hyprocrisy Post after olives post

Second Hypocritical Thread Before Deletion

Hypocrisy Post At eight twenty seven

After Olive Delete Comment

Hypocrisy

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This post is in reference to the title of the thread and the current issues arising here.

(I cannot see the screenshots very clearly and what I can see I don't understand the significance of)

But I am writing my 2c here as I think the current problems are not at all due to mods abusing their power -

The issue is of US abusing OUR power

You are right Ace, even spiritual people aren't free from corruption.

We each have been given power to affect others when our accounts were accepted here. Lately I feel a lot of us (myself included) have been misusing this power in a very ugly way.

We all carry anger, and anger is not bad, but how it is sometimes used to lash out to others and cause them harm is indeed very destructive.

I am not pointing any fingers. This is directed at no one in particular.

When we abuse our power, we abuse ourselves, we dishonour who we are and what we stand for, and we abuse other people.

What we send out to others will return to us.

I will use myself as an example. I, through misunderstanding what you (Ace) were commenting on and who you were talking to recently, reacted badly and abused my own power to let you know I was upset. I felt hurt and angry, and I lashed out, making a comment I regret. I said i hope you would be terrorised by a ghost because you seemed so assured in your views that they were not real. Not only did this affect my sense of self, and cause me to question my own intent for sharing my thoughts (in that case more a REACTION than a thought) and make me feel like an asshole; but also, I had this come right back to me in my own home. Since I made this comment to you, I been told by three separate people without me mentioning my beliefs regarding supernatural matters that they can sense a foreign energy/ force in my house, and the bumps in the night have gotten louder and less easy to disregard.

This is just an example. What you send out comes back to find you.

We need to be more aware of the impacts we are having on each other. We all have complicated, difficult to handle shit going on in our lives and when we are so entrenched in our own limited perspective, we forget that every single other person here has their own show to keep on the road. It's easy to forget, it's easy to be all in the self, my anger, my indignation, my pain, but the reality is that these forces are shared amoung all of us, we are not alone in our pain, just as we are not alone in our joy.

Really I think the issue of anger needs to be given some thought. Anger often covers other emotions, stress, fear, sadness, and we can use our anger as a shield to protect ourselves from being touched by other people, or we can use our anger as a clarifying force to peel away the extraneous bullshit and begin to understand what we really need and why we aren't getting it.

Look beneath anger, see what it has to tell you.

What are you really angry about? What is the primary cause?

What needs are not being met?

How can this anger be used to make changes in your own life so that you can be freed to explore the other emotions that are waiting for you in the sidelines while you harness this fiery, tornadic force?

I say of all this as general statement, not directed to anyone in particular, but I think we need to be able to discuss such content if we are ever to progress.

Arohanui people.

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Well said Boggy.

In the view of some practitioners of TCM anger isn't always seen as a destructive force. If it's used a catalyst for positive change it can sometimes be a very positive thing.

It's when it stagnates that problems arise.

At the dawn of spring TCM sees it as a time when our livers are waking up after winter and the growing wood energy (strong yang energy) is seen to manifest as anger at around this time.

Modern medicine is very quick to dismiss any similar notions but I've seen it in myself and others for years.

The dawn of spring is a time of growth.

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I am you

and you are me

Why's that such

a mystery?

- Lenny Kravitz aka cock flasher :wink:

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Good to know Sally, I definitely have been feeling that within my own life and it's helpful to me to hear it is not an entirely personalised process, as here I was thinking 'damn I've been turning into a real angry bugger lately'.

Suppressed emotion is a terrible affliction. We need to be able to express, but directing it at other people directly or indirectly just adds to the problem. It's like chucking a big log on a fire that would be ready to go out soon.

The good thing in all of this is that when we let out that suppressed emotion, there is space within us that allows room for new things to arise.

Here's to the new things, bring em on!

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wise words b-frog! & i agree sally, anger only becomes toxic when it is not understood & expressed in positive ways & so stagnates & mutates into all kinds of festering psych-goop.

just to address the title of this thread a bit, though i don't really see what this ha to do with moderators etc but i think it should be said that 'spiritual people' are probably amongst the most corruptible people there are.. probably just after 'political people.' Obviously though, they're likely to be corrupted for different reasons.

quite often, fear can be a very strong motivating factor in peoples spiritual search & if there was ever a corrupting emotion it is fear, not anger.

how do you think we end up with these massive mega religions who's fundamental ideologies promote fear & billions of fearful simpleton followers whom are often only so easily led into the religion because they have a basic fear of that which they don't understand?

this may even be a large part of the reason that 'spirituality' gets such a bad rap. Because unfortunately, all too often peoples 'spiritual path' becomes little more than a veiled attempt to ease their troubled hearts & minds which have been corrupted by fear. which is ok, we all get a little or a lot corrupted by fear at some time or other, but a genuinely 'spiritual' (i don't actually think this word is very useful tbh) person, (& for that matter a genuine person however they choose to identify) will at some point confront this & will do whatever they are capable of to overcome that delusion..

in the interests of fairness & balance :P i should also mention that the same can be said for a lot of 'scientific people.' All too often i think people use their reason & their ego's identity as a 'scientific person' to drown out the deep existential fear of that which they are incapable of understanding through logic. the feelings & perceptions that haunted them until they managed to stamp it out with the delusion that science is an entirely adequate antidote to the aching fear of that which can not be measured & yet is always inside them.

i don't say this to judge anyone, i speak from my own experiences..

Heres to moving beyond our fears, whatever they may be & dis-corrupting ourselves as far as is humanly possible.

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i should also mention that the same can be said for a lot of 'scientific people.'

could it be that people in general are corruptible, and not limited to this or that group?

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yeah i kind of made that point somewhere in that post i think didn't i? maybe it didn't come across.. but the topic of the thread is spiritual people & corruption, so thats what i talked about.

the point i was making is tat imo spiritual people are possibly more corruptible as a generalized group than many other generalized groups, so the thread title is kind of an oxymoron.. but i wasn't gonna bag on spiritual people at one end of a spectrum without explaining that hyper non-spiritual people can be just as big a nutjobs..

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Scared people scare people and hurt people hurt people.

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Hatred does not cease by hatred at any time. This is an old, old rule.

-Dhammapada, twin verses.

From my perspective, most conflict arises in online discussions as a result of ego clashes. The problem for human beings is that we are essentially hierarchical--and subsequently, this inevitably involves jostling for positions of Authority/and superiority in all aspects of social interaction, and the values relating to this are tied up with the self. Many Mayhana buddhists believe that Nibbana is ultimately the escape from the endless misery and self-destruction imposed as a condition of the ego, and the self. For example, we are are born into a world in which social identities are created--by ourselves, or for us by others--but these are illusions, and are transient ( or perhaps more accurately, phases). This is problematic because existence is itself constantly changing-- culture, social practices, social mores, trends, public opinion. Consequently, we tend to adapt ourselves to these conditions almost endlessly--we reinvent ourselves, accommodate--and thus we are caught up in a cycle of changing illusions which cause heartbreak, sorrow, marginalization. This world, the buddhists say, creates Dhukka (is Dhukka) which is a deep and pervading dissatisfaction with existence caused by our desperation to make meaning for ourselves as a permanent fixture in our lives in a social world that is endlessly evolving.For me, there is a lot of truth in this idea. Consider the way, for example, people augment the images of themselves and their lives on social media! These are inventions, projections. Nibbana/Nirvana is the point where one gets off the merry go round. This achieved by giving up attachment--by accepting that one is not eternal, and that life is a transitive flux--that the social world is corrupt, is not based on fairness and ethics. The Dhammpada talks of the Demon, Mara, who is the source of corruption of the mind and body. Mara is the self. To conuer Mara, one must conquer the ego, th self,and its litanies of vanity, pride, jealousy spite which spring eternal as a result of its presence. 'Whatever an enemy may do to any enemy, or a hater to hater, a wrongly directed mind will do us much greater mischief'.

Creatures from mind their character derive;
mind-marshalled are they, mind made.
Mind is the source either of bliss or of corruption. [2]

By oneself evil is done; by oneself one suffers;
by oneself evil is left undone; by oneself one is purified.
Purity and impurity belong to oneself,
no one can purify another. [3]

You yourself must make an effort.
The Tathagatas are only preachers.
The thoughtful who enter the way
are freed from the bondage of Mara. [4]

He who does not rouse himself when it is time to rise;
who, though young and strong, is full of sloth;
whose will and thoughts are weak;
that lazy and idle man
will never find the way to enlightenment. [5]

If a man hold himself dear, let him watch himself carefully;
the truth guards him who guards himself. [6]

If a man makes himself as he teaches others to be,
then, being himself subdued, he may subdue others;
one's own self is indeed difficult to subdue. [7]

If some men conquer in battle
a thousand times a thousand men,
and if another conquer himself,
he is the greatest of conquerors. [8]

It is the habit of fools,
be they laymen or members of the clergy, to think,
"this is done by me. May others be subject to me.
In this or that transaction a prominent part should be played by me."

Fools do not care for the duty to be performed or the aim to be reached,
but think of their self alone.
Everything is but a pedestal of their vanity. [9]

Bad deeds, and deeds hurtful to ourselves, are easy to do;
what is beneficial and good, that is very difficult. [10]

If anything is to be done, let a man do it,
let him attack it vigorously! [11]

Before long, alas! this body will lie on the earth,
despised, without understanding, like a useless log;
yet our thoughts will endure.
They will be thought again, and will produce action.
Good thoughts will produce good actions,
and bad thoughts will produce bad actions. [12]

Earnestness is the path of immortality,
thoughtlessness the path of death.
Those who are in earnest do not die;
those who are thoughtless are as if dead already.

It's important to make the distinction however, that Buddhists do not posit eternalism--that is, the idea that the soul is eternal, and goes somewhere after the body dies. Rather, the idea is that nothing that exists can pass from existence into non-existence--it can only change form. In fact, the laws of thermodynamics tell us that this is the case (Energy can niether be created nor destroyed but can only be moved or change form).

Zen master Thich nat han has a very simple and elegant parody for this concept. He talks about clouds. He says that when you see a cloud, you are seeing a manifestation of something at a particular point in time--but when the cloud dissipates, we tend to say that it is gone. But the cloud is not essentially gone--it has simply become something else, be it rain, or vapor, etc. Nothing in existence ever truly dies--despite that, according to the Dhammpada, 'nowhere is there known a place where death could not overcome the mortal'.

If you can accept that life is constantly evolving, and that nothing can pass from existence into non existence--not truly, then you can liberate yourself from the fear of death itself--and from Mara (the tempter) which is the ego, and platitudes of the self. And if you can liberate yourself from these, you can significantly reduce the feelings of hatred, envy, jealousy, spite which arise as their presence, because you will see such things for what they are--absurdities. Absurdities which are a waste of time, and are unnecessary sources of suffering.

My favorite line from the dhammpada is 'The world does not know we must all come to an end here. But for those who know it, their quarrels cease at once'.

I hope this had helped someone--I am not a very good teacher, but I do my best!

Audiobook link to the dhammapada here:

 

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I learned everything I could about Buddhism from pooh bear.

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Knows his shit

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I cant read the actual posts ace re posted what do they say

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I cant read the actual posts ace re posted what do they say

Waaaah waaaaah waaah!

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