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bogfrog

Where did we come from?

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Where did we come from?

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from the place we are going back to...

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Better question is - where are we now? We see the world everyday, but what is it??

It also holds the answer to the original question. When you see the world as it is, everything else disappears.

Edited by dajindo
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we as in life? the universe? it can only be answered by a cosmology.

i don't buy what the mainstream scientists are telling us in terms of cosmology, too much confusion around redshift.

the silmarillion is as good a cosmology as any. maybe better, since it's based on the myths of many culture but doesn't purport to be anything more than fiction. the bhagavad gita isn't too shabby either, pages of comments on the aspects and divisions of god. personally i think the real story lies there somewhere in the deepest depths of infinity, in the nature of god and what god is "doing" if a concept like doing even has any relevance to god.

actually that's my answer to all 3 of your big questions. ask the being upstairs. the one exploding through a billion billion diverse infinity-trips with each passing (?) moment. maybe it's trying to answer your questions?

the hindu's reckon the universe began with a sound, which happens to be the universal sound of searching for an inkling, a clue, anything..

ummmmmm

i am joking.

i know these are considered among the big questions that madden humanity but i don't think they're the right questions. as i said you can't possibly answer them without a cosmology and the sea we're lost in is too big for that. the questions are of consciousness, of self, not why are we here but what are we here. what did the greeks say about understanding thyself? i agree with them.

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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No? Just thinking..more than usual. It's an Aquarius full moon, AND a blue moon at that!

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I'm inclined to think we are indeed part alien. David Icke should NOT be the only voice on this topic.

If I'm an alien I'm quite sure I'm not of the reptilian shape shifting variety. Believe me, I had tried to shape shift and I couldn't get it to work.

I knooooow we can't answer these questions. That is clear. The only philosophy I have studied was introduction to epistemology, which taught me I cannot be certain of anything, other than the flimsy notion that I appear to exist at this moment.

So don't get me wrong peeps. This is not a cry for reassurance. I don't care that I don't know and can't know.

But that doesn't make me any less interested in exploring the possibilities. And that's all they are. Possibilities.

Is it better to hold no possibilities in mind, than some that you know you can never be sure of?

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i love the way you've made a trio of threads and no matter which thread we're in we can see the other two at the bottom by their identical tag. the same conversation is more or less randomly cleft asunder.

win/fail :P

lets get down to some gritty nitty

what if i suggested you consider that the size of the universe (even the visible universe) is unknown, it's age is unknown, the age of galaxies is unknown, the distance between galaxies is unknown, the potential for the formation of stars and planets is unknown and the life cycles of stars (eg their birth, output over time and expiration) is unknown, there are no black holes, no dark matter/energy and the "original" or "central" source of the energy which gives the universe it's structure is unknown.

then what?

don't feel that as far as the physical universe is concerned, the bleak views of astro-physicists and cosmologists are hard facts. if you want to accept their views then i'm not stopping you, merely alerting those who aren't quite sure to the possibility that there are entirely different ways of interpreting the data gathered by our telescopes.

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What if you belive in yourself .. belive that all that you can perceive is actually your self.. All..

The world you see around you, including the people with their opinions of life's meaning ; the animals and the plants; the stars arranged in constellations making astrology suggestions ; the warmth of the sun ; what if you believed you are the universe and what's beyond the universe as well..

What if when people are talking IS YOU talking to yourself..

What if when people are fighting IS YOU fighting with yourself..

What if all you can imagine becomes reality of other planets..


How about if the meaning of every thing is your own creation..


How about your every thought in every moment is THE CREATOR ..


How about if every thought of yours transports your body into the next world you want to be..

Edited by mysubtleascention
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I don't know about everyone else, but I came from a sperm and an egg. By some miraculous twist of fate I (or half of me) was the lucky tenacious little thing who outcompeted all the others and hit the target first.

After my mrs fell pregnant and I started to look into what a miracle the act of conception,gestation and childbirth is, other philosophical topics seemed almost pedestrain in some respects. The odds of a sperm making to the point where it penetrates the egg and fertilises it is so high it's hard to comprehend. That's just the start of the battle, in some respects the fertilisation is the easy part.

It still blows me away that two people can make another one.

Sometimes I think the Chinese & the alchemists summed it up best.

Yin and yang

As above so below

It's a convenient way to let yourself off the hook whenever you start to think too much.

To me that sums it all up.

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from the place we are going back to...

"Back to the place where all the spirits came from, and where all the spirits return." - Nobody

maxresdefault.jpg

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What if you belive in yourself .. belive that all that you can perceive is actually your self.. All..
The world you see around you, including the people with their opinions of life's meaning ; the animals and the plants; the stars arranged in constelations making astrology suggestions ; the warmth of the sun ; what if you believed you are the universe and what's beyond the universe as well..
What if when people are talking IS YOU talking to yourself..
What if when people are fighting IS YOU fighting with yourself..
What if all you can imagine is reality on another planets..
How about if the meaning of every thing is your own creation..
How about your every thought in every moment is THE CREATOR ..
How about if every thought of yours transports you in the next world you want to be..

amen brother

easy words to comprehend

a lifetime's work to enact

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a dieing star that crashed on earth ,resparking and forming energy creating life with the compounds of minerals healed over ,

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ahh the old "we are stardust" !

perhaps nucleosynthesis happens on the surface of stars, not in their core as we are taught. perhaps stars throw this matter off in the form of CME, and more specularly perhaps even by fissioning themselves (giving birth to brown dwarfs et al), perhaps stars don't die by exploding and the existence of heavy elements doesn't require remnants of "exploded dead stars"

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Wouldn't that be dependent of density of the star in question. An older star with a lower density would most likely be ejecting some of the higher elements in the form of CME's

Most of the higher elements come from dying or dead stars that have completed their lifecycle and have finished the supernova cycle and become nebulas.

Edited by Sally

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I deliberately worded my last post with an absolute statement (point of debate) and an ambiguous statement to inspire a discussion but it seems I've stifled this this discussion in the process.

To be totally honest I'm not totally convinced that the accretion of elements has to emanate from the death of a recently dead star. Stars have been dying for eons, so a johhny come lately dead/dying star (like our sun) can't account for the total mass of any celestial object in any particular solar system.

Most of the elements in existence have been recycled many times over and are gradually evolving to higher forms as this part of our "universe" evolves.

Pondering the energy emitted in a relatively new star like ours makes me think that elements from the core could well be transformed and projected through space by our star and also older entities in the event of CME's or other fission/ fusion processes.

Edited by Sally

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i've done you a wrongun sally. well, i didn't force you by gunpoint to down all that grog. i accidentally suggested a minor revision of solar theory when i meant to suggest a complete revision with a model as old as the one which states that stars are powered by nuclear fusion. this model wasn't 'chosen' to be the correct one a century ago, but astronomers can't think beyond what they were taught. the nuclear fusion model has never been proven. we should be able to detect many more neutrinos coming from the sun, the model is a square peg they've been trying to ram into a round hole of observations.

i'm suggesting that stars aren't internally powered, that they are dead in the middle and active on the surface, that they are basically electric light globes powered not by wires but charge-carrying filaments of plasma woven throughout the galaxy.

all talk about the age or evolution of stars goes out the window, however the hertzprung-russel diagram can be rejigged to tell us how many units of juice a star is receiving

hr.jpg

this is of course all heresy!! burn the witch!

in this model stars can still blow the fuck up, but not as a result of gravitational collapse after "burning up all of their fuel". perhaps heavier elements are manufactured on stars or perhaps anywhere in the universe where there is a significant electric discharge, who knows, so let me just summarise where we DON'T come from if electric universe conjecture trumps gravitational universe conjecture: we don't come from a particular generation of stars born in a 13 billion year old expanding universe which annihilated themselves adding heavy elements to a 'primordial matter' cloud which defying thermodynamics coalesced into a spinning disc forming our solar system in it's (unique among current observations of exo-planets) configuration

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It seems you are well primed to accept some of the controversial Tesla/Dollard theories of the electric universe TI.

Have you looked into any of the Borderlands science theories ?

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i hadn't heard of them, but speaking of fringe science organisations, i know some of the thunderbolts group are friendly with the natural philosophy alliance.

i will have a look at some of that stuff, it seems quite 'out there' but that's cool. if there's any specific are you are suggesting let me know.

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What if you belive in yourself .. belive that all that you can perceive is actually your self.. All..
The world you see around you, including the people with their opinions of life's meaning ; the animals and the plants; the stars arranged in constellations making astrology suggestions ; the warmth of the sun ; what if you believed you are the universe and what's beyond the universe as well..
What if when people are talking IS YOU talking to yourself..
What if when people are fighting IS YOU fighting with yourself..
What if all you can imagine becomes reality of other planets..
How about if the meaning of every thing is your own creation..
How about your every thought in every moment is THE CREATOR ..
How about if every thought of yours transports your body into the next world you want to be..

It is amazing and terrifying at the same time, isn't it... Knowing it was all you, the whole time....

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i didn't know what to do with myself after that ^ it seemed like finding ways to embody and express the fact was as good a path as any

of course, i go about my life with almost no awareness of the fact most of the time

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I was so pissed last night that I don't even remember responding to this thread. I remember typing something with one eye closed before I went to bed - I couldn't focus on the screen with both eyes open :unsure:

I haven't read any of the Thunderbolts work TI.

I could be on the wrong track but maybe the work I suggested is in a somewhat different grain to other theoretical work. It's mostly the work of electrical engineers and relates to observable phenomena involving radio waves & electromagnetism. Planetary alignments in our solar system have a powerful effect on radio waves and the the angles of the alignments have seemingly direct parallels to the way electricity behaves.

I'll see if I can dig up some of the stuff Shamanistic sent me a while back and see what I can find before I dribble too much more bullshit.

Edited by Sally

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the thunderbolts project builds on the work of plasma physicists and electrical engineers but also planetary geology, and here is where thunderbolts is somewhat unique, this view of the universe is spliced alongside mythology of catastrophic events recorded by humans roughly ten thousand years ago to produce a picture of radical changes to the solar system in that relatively recent time period.

i don't think too many people who spend significant time absorbing electric universe theory and plasma cosmology go back to thinking that the mainstream picture of an electrically stagnant, disconnected universe is accurate. as far as i'm concerned, fuck the mathematical bullshit, observations and experimental evidence aligns with EU so the mathematical model has to go to go down the toilet.

*flush*

even as we speak mainstream press releases are starting to mention plasma environments and charge separation, not as unimportant footnotes but as relevant players.

the importance of gravity in structuring the universe has been drastically overestimated and that will be understood before i'm dead, i will bet money on that. what will be interesting to see is if our (incomplete, by it's proponents own admission) theory of gravitation is targeted for an overhaul in my lifetime (supposing it is genuinely deeply flawed, something i'm not so sure of, but the extremely low apparent density of comets gives us something to think about considering that philae's ice drill/hammer couldn't even scratch the surface)

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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