Police charge NSW man after $550,000 kava bust

[gtarman]

Did anyone hear about this? I only just found out now. Thought it might make for an interesting discussion...I was aware there was some rhetoric about kava being controlled because of abuse in indigenous communities but I didn't think there was any weight to the claim, and I don't really know if kava abuse is even a thing..? Does it have negative or damaging effects? Is it really a problem?

I'm not a fan of this kind of prohibition sentiment anywhere, but this seems particularly odd to me.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-08/kava-seized-near-katherine-man-arrested-nt-police/5190212

Northern Territory Police have seized more than $550,000 worth of kava after a man was caught allegedly trying to take it to remote communities.

The 37-year-old man from New South Wales was arrested close to Maranboy, near the town of Katherine.

Police say he was carrying 294 kilograms of kava in plastic bags in his vehicle.

Duty Superintendent Louise Jorgensen says officers searched the man's car after he was stopped for a random breath test yesterday afternoon.

"He was evasive and acting suspiciously," she said.

"They said, 'where are you going what are you doing?'

"He said he was heading to Darwin and they said, 'well, you are on the wrong road'.

"Then they saw all the bags and they said, 'well, we are going to search your motor vehicle'.

"He said, 'well, it's full of kava'."

Kava is used as a ceremonial drink by many Pacific Islander communities and its use has grown in the Territory.

While the kava plant can be imported to Australia, it is illegal to supply and possess kava in the Territory.

[IndianDreaming]

What?? Where does the $550,000 come from? You can buy Kava for $20 a kilo - $80 if you're getting ripped in Aus... $1800 a kilo? wft?

[ThunderIdeal]

Nt drug prices are always inflated greatly but so are police estimates of value.

Yes kava abuse is a thing with negative health effects. Not equivalent to dangerous drugs like alcohol.

[ThunderIdeal]

The article states that possession is illegal in NT but IIRC Mr torsten has long maintained that despite laws allowing passengers to carry several kilos into the country, possession is actually illegal.

Interested parties can search for older threads but for those newer to the forums its worth mentioning that torsten tends to understand the laws better than anyone although particularly regarding NSW

[etherealdrifter]

fucking bullshit.

inflate the severity of the crime.

inflate the punishment.

maximise the profit,

each time laws are created for profit you lose the rule and accept 1 step forward 2 steps back

[etherealdrifter]

it's like having a good buzz on kava is equivalent to a 2 week binge on methaliciscious .

nope

[katu]

Kava is illegal in the NT because it is a drug of abuse in SOME of the aboriginal communities. Some of the arnham land indigenous embraced it as a alternative to alcohol after being introduced to it after a cultural exchange with the islanders. For a time it was supported by the NT government, their where legal indigenous run NT supported Kava huts up there. It quickly became a drug of abuse in the same way that alcohol has and the community elders with the support of the government banned it/made it illegal. This action of course as all prohibition does caused a black market to develop. They can still get Kava it's just 100 the price. The "runners" that are smuggling kava into these communities are no better than the grog runners. Profiting off seriously disadvantaged people. Ive seen first hand the effect kava has had on some of the indigenous communities and it's just as bad as alchohol. It should be noted that some of the communities said no at the start in response the Territory's kava huts..The reason being that they had already seen first hand the effect of alcohol on their people and way of life and weren't keen to repeat the experiment.

[katu]

With regards to bringing two kg into the country my understanding is that that is a customs law. The individual states differ.. QLD for example the dried root is illegal. Which means at Brisbane airport the customs officers will let you through with it as your not breaking any customs laws but the state police officer that pulls you over on your way home will charge you for it as it's his job to enforce the state legislation. There are lots of examples legally speaking of discrepancies between different policing/governing bodies in Australia. State, federal, customs?? It all gets very convoluted. Seeds are a good eg. What customs is cool with the state may not be and visa versa. Not to mention Federal. Eh, It's to early for this, I need coffee .

[gtarman]

Interesting to hear katu. I wasn't sure what the stance of the indigenous communities themselves would be on these issues - whether they welcome the prohibition or whether they resent it as one more case of "whitefella-knows-best". Is there generally much consultation between the elders and the state government in making these decisions? Is it something that the elders have a deciding say in?

Also Thunder I'm interested in learning more about what kava abuse and its negative effects might be if you know...I wonder if it would have similar effects to alcohol on the liver maybe? Or if there are withdrawal symptoms? Or if it can become addictive? Mostly curious about how it could do such harm that they treat a "kava bust" like a meth bust, as ol' Eth put it.

[ThunderIdeal]

It dries out the skin and makes you sit around drinking kava all day and night. Can be hepatoxic.

I fail to see how comparisons to alcohol see fair though.

[gtarman]

^ so it is habit-forming then? Do you reckon it could be habit-forming in a physical dependence sort of way at all?

[ThunderIdeal]

I don't think so. I don't think any/many islanders use it every day like some in the communities, but the islanders push the limits of getting smashed over the course of a night.

[katu]

Gtarman, with regards to prohibition in the communities(dry zones), regardless of the substance, alchohol, kava, it's the communities themselves which decide. There is consultation with the authorities(federal police and government ministers) who then support the communities decision and help to inforce it.

As far as it being addictive and making comparisons to alcohol... Hmm how do I explain?? If we were to look at kava's abuse potential vs alcohol's in the wider community, or in communities that had had a long history of it's use from an ethnobotanical point of view, you would come to very different conclusions as to its abuse potential than if you were to do a study in a remote aboriginal community in arnhem land.

These people due to many factors, social, genetics, have a very high risk of substance abuse. There livers also lack the ability to process toxins like alcohol, fatty foods and i'd bet kava like white Australians. Kava in these particular communities has many parallels to alcohol in regards to detrimental effects to the individual and the community as a whole.

[wert]

Kava is shit. I wouldnt throw 20 cents for any amount of the shit.

[-YT-]

shit how? like the taste or effect....?

Guess it largely depends on the source, but years ago there was good kava around. all depends how much dirt water you can handle but i enjoyed it more so than alcohol.

Should be some older threads from years ago when the banning happened, there were a couple communities that had alcohol bans but were using kava thinking it was around northern qld maybe around your way katu?

Be interesting if there's any data on the social dynamics of alcohol dry kava using communities to those without access to it ie is there less other substance abuse etc. see if i can find any infos

[etherealdrifter]

*wert the problem is that if it aint 'freshish' it will leave you feeling like all you've done is drink a sediment infused caramel river latte but fresh it will give you the desired kavalactones.

On my honeymoon many moons ago we went up to a fijian village and sat in amongst the men folk while they prepared the stuff- squeezing and wrenching the root through a cloth or (t-shirt actually it was).

I tells ya, up in those mountains away from western eyes my wife and i lost it good.

the stuff you get here and there is probably so out of date sitting in some warehouse shelf that it's lost any of it's activity for sure.

Fresh is best!

"CLAP,CLAP,CLAP....BULLA!" have another bowl my friend.

[gtarman]

Interesting...that might be why I never experienced shit from the Thomsons kava tablets. Never tried it fresh unfortunately...and sounds like it might be a bit of a bitch to grow in oz?

[watertrade]

Kava is shit. I wouldnt throw 20 cents for any amount of the shit.

I think you made a typo wert. Surely you meant to say kava is the shit. Where legal to do so I encourage everyone to give it a try.

*To be fair It isn't without it's problems in my own experience.

Edited February 20, 2015 by watertrade

[Slocombe]

Interesting...that might be why I never experienced shit from the Thomsons kava tablets. Never tried it fresh unfortunately...and sounds like it might be a bit of a bitch to grow in oz?

They work ever so slightly better if you let them dissolve under your tongue over an hour or two. Certainly not worth the cost.

[Roopey]

Over here in the States, Kava is pretty far under the radar. You can buy extracts of it that are made pretty well, and they work amazingly and take the whole "dirty water" thing out of the equation. I doubt that you can import it, but it could be worth a shot for those who want to try.

https://www.cherylsherbs.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16_30&products_id=262&zenid=ce9fb229b315ac0a77ad3a25be55b308

That shop also has a plethora of other amazing extracts and useful things. I have a storefront near me and I go there like once a month to pick up various things.

[ThunderIdeal]

Awwww good call roopey

[paradox]

^ so it is habit-forming then?

As habit forming as anything that will give someone a brief escape from the gross reality of life in a remote desert community in a deeply racist country of ignorant privelaged white people where aboriginal people have next to no opportunity to escape the utter helplessness & stark poverty thats been imposed upon them by the sickeningly exploitative colonizing culture.

Depression & suicide are also extremely common 'habits' in such communities & life expectancy is more than 20 years less than the rest of the population.

Habit forming? go figure..

[gtarman]

I agree with what you're saying Para, but it was a legit question, not specifically referencing or seeking to minimize the suffering of indigenous people

[paradox]

i know man, was just a general point about the situation, not directed at you in a negative way, but i can see how it looks that way..

[emcat]

The main reason kava had a lot of toxic effects in Indigenous communities is that during the 90's (when it was being used a lot in communities) some companies were using the whole plant to make it rather than just the root. This is very toxic and causes liver damage in particular. That's why the restrictions were changed before so that you needed a license to import it... This talk of banning it is just really sad and infuriating