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ace1928

Wish people would stop spouting pseudo bullshit

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Eat the hippys! Ur the entree jwerta!

You can eat me any day incog ;)

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Omg tell me ur not one of those anti vaccine people

actually, vaccines are used as a vector for forced/covert sterilization procedures thereby implementing the NWO's Agenda 21 initiative

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This should be a "get it out of your system" bitches and gripes thread. Repressing emotion ain't healthy, and better here than clocking someone !

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I think you mean NWA discostu :rolleyes:

pp31133-nwa-dangerous-poster.jpg

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^ yep those freakin brainless morons !! The worst kind couldn't u just take to their faces with an orcish mace?

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^ yep those freakin brainless morons !! The worst kind couldn't u just take to their faces with an orcish mace?

I used to work with a bloke who was against vaccines purely for the reason he thought the govt was injecting nanobots into him LOL

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Absolutely get where your coming from ace, the only difficulty is that if there was no superficial chit chat relaying wonky belief systems then there would be very little being spoken at all. Not that I'd mind.

I find if I'm not 'talking shit' or in a state of being, I'm left complaining about how we, the masses, get fucked over everyday. People would rather talk about football, or worse still their faith.

Being over anilitical certainly can seem a gift at times, being able to keep your head above the surface, but sometimes I do wish I could switch it off and listen to ke$ha.

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Oh and whist this topic has somewhat shifted...

Is it not considered fact that vaccines can bring out severly debilitating illnesses to particular people predisposed to such? I just never hear that arguement voiced....

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If people make a claim they should have to verify that claim

If they verify a claim it should be with something that can be verified independently by third parties

It should be repeatable

It should be consistent

It should be something that can be further investigated if needed to understand the underlying mechanism

If you can't do those things then you are essentially spouting complete and utter bullshit.

Just because you don't agree with facts does not mean that the way the facts were gathered is wrong or manipulated by some other higher power.

Just because you don't know what is going on in the world does not mean that it has to be sinister, nor does it mean its all beautiful and perfect.

Back up your claims or don't claim them as factual.

Where do you draw the line with this? I'm all in favour of isolating threads on chemtrails, antivaxxers and conspiracy theories ( for example )

But some of the most interesting discussions here have started out with something like vague theory and get developed by subsequent posting types into a cross disciplinary discussion on formal research techniques and developments

And most of the best threads here get hijacked one way or the other, which I really like as well

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Anecdote based observations presented as claims should be considered potentially viable regardless of independent verification.

One should be open minded, that doesn't entail innate belief or disbelief. Being gullible is in many ways more desirable than being overly skeptical. One must consider that most people alive are not particularly intelligent. It is perhaps expecting too much to hold them to a high standard. Consider how many religious people there are, often people believe for emotional reasons because people tend to have stronger emotions than they do intelligence.

If people were actually intelligent there would be no religion, but that does not mean religious people should be discriminated against just because they are on the dumb list.

Be kind to stupid people, they outnumber you.

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Also, a lot of people in the psychedelic community make their money by exploiting ignorance.

McKenna, Hancock, Pinchbeck etc. If not for dumb people these men would have been working at a gas station.

Dumb people are an important component of the psychedelic financial ecosystem. Don't resent them... exploit them!

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people should bare in mind that in the privatisation of science much evidence/data is either suppressed or manipulated to fit an agenda (profit), so just because thee's no evidence for a claim doesn't necessarily make it untrue :wink:

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Also, a lot of people in the psychedelic community make their money by exploiting ignorance.

McKenna, Hancock, Pinchbeck etc. If not for dumb people these men would have been working at a gas station.

Dumb people are an important component of the psychedelic financial ecosystem. Don't resent them... exploit them!

You get it.

Absolutely get where your coming from ace, the only difficulty is that if there was no superficial chit chat relaying wonky belief systems then there would be very little being spoken at all. Not that I'd mind.

I find if I'm not 'talking shit' or in a state of being, I'm left complaining about how we, the masses, get fucked over everyday. People would rather talk about football, or worse still their faith.

Being over anilitical certainly can seem a gift at times, being able to keep your head above the surface, but sometimes I do wish I could switch it off and listen to ke$ha.

You get it too.

And the rest for the most part are happy living in their own fantastic reality. At least that it is out open on the forum now.

Its not a forum for good discussion. It's a forum for perpetuating stories.

Im gonna keep lurking around but there is no point in sharing good information with a bunch of people who are incapable of collecting good information themselves.

Not everyone. Just the vast majority.

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Also, a lot of people in the psychedelic community make their money by exploiting ignorance.

McKenna, Hancock, Pinchbeck etc. If not for dumb people these men would have been working at a gas station.

LIKE

I don't object to Pinchbeck's poetic style, but fucked if I'd call him a researcher

Have often wished I could make something up completely and say it sufficient credulity while charging bulk $ and selling books. I'd giggle and give the game away pretty early on

Absolutely cannot believe that so many people are so willing to sacrifice independent thought in order to suck up such peurile crap and spout it back out without losing mass credibility. Oh. LNP. I guess it's just human nature. Years back I was surprised to find such a willingness to bow to the alpha-men spouting unproveable crap in the EB community- especially overseas-and that was back when the signal/noise ratio was lower. Now it just saddens me.

Scratch any human being and you will find irrational beliefs not far below the epidermal layer. Even if it's just " She'll come back to me one day " or "If I stop smoking pot tonight I'll be right to drive tomorrow even if the cops are round". Irrationality is especially true of biologists and physicists IME :) I don't have a problem with that, it's fun. But it's when an irrational claim is aggresively argued as a proven, logical statement and gains momentum- that's when it shits me

people should bare in mind that in the privatisation of science much evidence/data is either suppressed or manipulated to fit an agenda (profit), so just because thee's no evidence for a claim doesn't necessarily make it untrue :wink:

Absence of evidence etc.

Still, it's a bad example. Science is what we, the people make of it. Your analogy is like claiming private transport excludes the poor because cars exist. Untrue. Both cars and science exist as somewhat weighted social constructs- but they can be used in so many different ways

Private science can be crap. So can public science. It's poor science and a tunelling of research focus driven by a short term market economy that's the enemy. The important thing about science- as opposed to religion, or fucken intergalactic space alien pyramid DVD selling schemes- is that once you find something is wrong, or different, you get to write it up and challenge or change the findings. I

Im gonna keep lurking around but there is no point in sharing good information with a bunch of people who are incapable of collecting good information themselves.

Not everyone. Just the vast majority.

Really, you make that sound like you're gunna take your bat and ball and go home because you don't like the players. Gosh, who here is lucky enough to fall under the definition of 'everyone' above? Is this a statement designed to make us each secretly glad you don't mean us as individuals?

If you gave a fuck you'd contribute all this good information you've just spruiked and get a decent discussion going

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Even scientists get hunches.

I'm not going to back that up with proof.

Don't stop sharing your ideas just because you don't agree. We're not all trained essayists.

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actually, vaccines are used as a vector for forced/covert sterilization procedures thereby implementing the NWO's Agenda 21 initiative

Personally I'm growing tired of all the sarcasm around here lately from multiple users. I know it can be funny, even poignant, I just think its lowering the standard of discussion which might be the opposite of its intention.

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I cant even tell if that is stu's actual opinion or a dig at people who might hold that opinion. That's why its been bugging me.

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people should bare in mind that in the privatisation of science much evidence/data is either suppressed or manipulated to fit an agenda (profit), so just because thee's no evidence for a claim doesn't necessarily make it untrue - DiscoStu

Absence of evidence etc.

Still, it's a bad example. Science is what we, the people make of it. Your analogy is like claiming private transport excludes the poor because cars exist. Untrue. Both cars and science exist as somewhat weighted social constructs- but they can be used in so many different ways

it wasn't an analogy, it was a statement of fact. it's especially true with pharmaceutical companies and drug trials, where statistics are withheld or manipulated to get a product to market quicker. I don't agree that science is what you make of it. pure water boils at ~100°C @ 1ATM is science (open to variation due to a number of variables etc.) , it leaves no room for making anything of it, it's a simple statement of fact. this leads me to what i've been considering lately, and that is mathematics could be considered the only truly objective language, in that it doesn't leave room for the effects of qualia like simple human observations can. for example, you see a red square, i see a red square, how or or what type of red exactly is dependent on us the observers. but a photon detector can give us a precise measure of the red, let's say 450nm. this isn't open to interperetation or agenda, it's just a simple statement of fact.

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Some people believe there are three "eyes" or ways to view, the cosmos. That along the spectrum there are some things which simply cannot be "seen" by the other Eyes. It's a kind of simplistic way of saying that some things cannot be verified scientifically/rationally. Personally (and I do highlight personally) I currently believe that it's possible for all to be seen in the right circumstance (doubtfully by a human being specie). Can you grasp what you see during visionary journeys and bring them back to you in the material world?

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=zzas9ATokDcC&pg=PA113&lpg=PA113&dq=eye+of+mind+eye+of+contemplation&source=bl&ots=mg2D0cCEkG&sig=SYSyMNOqCqk_A02okLY8EGtP0Mw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XQzYVLyAIMXVmAWPpIDoCw&ved=0CDMQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=eye%20of%20mind%20eye%20of%20contemplation&f=false

Basically the Eye of the Flesh - natural sciences

Eye of the Mind - humanities/social sciences

Eye of Contemplation - spiritual insight

All that said and done; if the original complaint was about those people who merely repeat what they've heard someone else say (eg channel 9 news, facebook etc) and that promoting that idea without ANY attempt at understanding which further impinges on the rights and freedoms of others, then yes I agree wholeheartedly that these people do far more damage than good. As far as the representation of "facts" go, sometimes the vested interested twist the "facts" to suit themselves for whatever reason. Sometimes what is not said is more poignant.

Also when it comes to trying to persuade someone else of your ideal/argument, shouting at them won't serve any purpose than to shut them down for wanting to hear what you have to say. The Intentional Ignorant is sooooo frustrating, far more than someone who merely has a different opinion. But if we stop trying to reason for the Truth then we may as well give up entirely and let the fools run the show.

Edit: ROFL admittedly I may also have gotten my feathers ruffled a bit because when I first read this thread I assumed it must've been about my fact-less, science-less, lazily-written post in the "War On The Gods" thread. Not that I EVER say - nor hopefully imply - that I think my opinion is cut and dry truth.

Edited by FancyPants
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Really, you make that sound like you're gunna take your bat and ball and go home because you don't like the players.

That's pretty much it.

Why bother play a game if you aren't enjoying it?

Lol

I just think its lowering the standard of discussion which might be the opposite of its intention.

Thats a feat. There don't appear to be any standards.

All that said and done; if the original complaint was about those people who merely repeat what they've heard someone else say (eg channel 9 news, facebook etc) and that promoting that idea without ANY attempt at understanding which further impinges on the rights and freedoms of others, then yes I agree wholeheartedly that these people do far more damage than good. As far as the representation of "facts" go, sometimes the vested interested twist the "facts" to suit themselves for whatever reason. Sometimes what is not said is more poignant.

Also when it comes to trying to persuade someone else of your ideal/argument, shouting at them won't serve any purpose than to shut them down for wanting to hear what you have to say. The Intentional Ignorant is sooooo frustrating, far more than someone who merely has a different opinion. But if we stop trying to reason for the Truth then we may as well give up entirely and let the fools run the show.

That's a bit closer to the point.

There are a whole lot of people like that out there

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I cant even tell if that is stu's actual opinion or a dig at people who might hold that opinion. That's why its been bugging me.

like all good propaganda it's a mixture of truth and lies. certainly israel has been caught sterilizing african immigrants under the pretence of immunisation, but so far no evidence has come to light that is what's happening broadly where vaccines are administered.

but yes i was being facetious

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Personally I'm growing tired of all the sarcasm around here lately from multiple users. I know it can be funny, even poignant, I just think its lowering the standard of discussion which might be the opposite of its intention.

Oh I love the sarcasm personally. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference, so sarcasm harder people. Harder. Shit deserves to be made fun o

it wasn't an analogy, it was a statement of fact. it's especially true with pharmaceutical companies and drug trials, where statistics are withheld or manipulated to get a product to market quicker. I don't agree that science is what you make of it. pure water boils at ~100°C @ 1ATM is science (open to variation due to a number of variables etc.) , it leaves no room for making anything of it, it's a simple statement of fact. this leads me to what i've been considering lately, and that is mathematics could be considered the only truly objective language, in that it doesn't leave room for the effects of qualia like simple human observations can. for example, you see a red square, i see a red square, how or or what type of red exactly is dependent on us the observers. but a photon detector can give us a precise measure of the red, let's say 450nm. this isn't open to interperetation or agenda, it's just a simple statement of fact.

Yep you are right in one sense, and my analogy was shoddy. Yes, water boils at ~100°C @ 1ATM. But the uses to which empirical observation are put reflects our own input and relationships with each other. Are you testing BP forsurgical polymer manufacture or are you calculating gas use for pouring boiled H2O over the heads of political dissidents? Either way, the figure is a constant. The end use is not

Did I get my point right yet? Science isn't privatised. A fuckload of what's funded has been privatised. Not too much of that is prohibited, or even out of range for many people. We've just embraced learned helplessness about chasing ideas rigorously for ourselves. There are valuable citizen science projects which combat this, and I love them

That's pretty much it.

Why bother play a game if you aren't enjoying it?

And yet... here you are... still complaining. Where's that luscious info you're witholding?

Don't take it personally, I've been caned for saying similar stuff years ago. But it was good advice. Don't whinge too long, fix it.

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Don't let the door hit you in the head on the way out!

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