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Alienteaparty

Determining Cacti Value by weight.

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I wasn't too sure as to where to post this, but I have come up with an idea that I have not yet come across in the Cacti / succulence community before; Valuing cacti or succulence by their weight.

I have bought and sold a lot of cacti through this forum and through other mediums before and weather buying or selling have I have always come across the value of the cacti being determined by length.

This has in many instances backfired on me and on other people I know, For example; when purchasing some named Bridgesii clones at 15 - 25 cm at $1 a cm, I thought I was getting a pretty stock standard price only to receive the cacti and discover that their diameter was no larger than my thumb, I felt truly ripped off. If the cacti were being sold by weight this problem would have been avoided.

So Before making a radical proposal to ask everyone to begin using units of weight when selling cacti Id like to know all your opinions on the idea.

Here are a few points to consider:

  • How this would affect the legality of trading and selling cacti due to weight commonly being used to sell illicit substances.
  • The honesty of the seller, where the cacti could be watered heavily before sale to increase its value with water weight.
  • Whether weight could just be used in a new format detailing the cacti for sale on this forum whilst also including diameter, length, any previous diseases the cutting has had, etc..
  • The simplicity in determining shipping costs

...And while on the topic, I would also like to see a more organised format of trade and sell threads on this forum including Pictures and most importantly the disease history of the cacti. I have had cacti sent over from other states only to discover later they they had scale on them. We have to take responsibility for pests and disease crossing borders as well. A more professional approach to The sale and trade of cacti could really assist us with our passion and the way that these plants are viewed by government bodies and the general public.

Ok, so without further adoooooooand without getting too antsy on this idea, please discuss away.

Edited by Alienteaparty

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Personally I don't like the idea of weight based sales of cacti plants or cuts. The differences in weight due to their nature of holding water at certain periods of their growing life makes it pretty variable.

Sales without pictures is what annoys me though, or sellers not being willing to provide a pic when you ask for one. If you put up a picture of the actual cut/plant for sale with something in the image for scale, preferably a ruler or measuring tape but most people seem to use the ubiquitous Bic lighter, then it's hard to be annoyed with what you get as you would have seen it prior to purchasing.

It's easy to put up pics and really isn't very hard to get hold of some kind of digital camera in this day and age. I figure most times if a seller can't be arsed to put up a picture of the actual item they're selling then there's usually a reason rather than them not actually being able to do so.

Having said that I have seen a few sellers placing cuts on scales and taking a picture of the measurement as well as stating the length of the cut, (mostly on eBay), so it's not completely unheard of.

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Write it in their reputation thread.

All valid points though, i've had the fortune of only getting good deals from people so far online :)

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I know where you are coming from OP, I've had similar experiences (even pictures can be deceiving), but I'm not sure a weight system will work. I mean it might work for stock standard tricho cuts, but it doesn't take into account: the rareness of different plants, the fluctuating weights of cactus, and the different weights between species. Plus as you said there could be issues regarding legality (cuttings are borderline as they are).

If a seller isn't willing to provide you with more pictures or more info just don't deal with them. If they are dishonest in their dealings and unwilling to fix the situation then you can leave feedback in their trade rep thread.

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I have never and will never purchase a cutting priced by length.

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Determining Cacti Value by weight

which is more valuable

5 kilos of fresh cut eileen

or

50 kilos of fresh cut pc pach

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I have never and will never purchase a cutting priced by length.

Really? How do you decide what you'd like to buy or trade with people?

So how do you get the seller to indicate the size? Purely by weight? Purely based on pictures seen? Have you never bought plants online? Always just taken the sellers word as gospel? Ever been burnt?

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before buying , it's nice to know as much as possible about the plant....

from: history it carries -whether that be clone names, ancient admirals and pirates,

or scarring and genetics info.. (even if it turns out to be incorrect -lol- for later reference )

to: all of its dimensional stats and several pictures from different angles are always pleasing , gives the prospective buyer enough "feel" to almost replace the real life situation of being in a plant shop/store/garage sale.... and choosing the one you want

definitely need those all important "diameter" measurements , always grateful when sellers show that

sometimes weight comes as a shock so...

it alone is possibly not well equipped to convey enough info for "specimen plant" seekers i guess

11/12 inch ( " ) tall terschalidus weighing in at 8 kilos was like some sort of cannonball , seeing a pic of that dwarfing a mans boot

was enough to give me a nice perspective to trigger buying it :P

pictures can still deceive , regardless tho...

i know huanucoensis is very very heavy compared to it's "visual size" in pics too

once I got annoyed that a 1inch thick x 12" long deflated sausage pachanoi arrived...

that cost twice as much as one i bought at the same time which was 3" thick and 12" long ...

and even came with a free, smaller; pachanoi that was 2.5" thick and 5" long

they had pics too

but had I known the weights of them too , I would have clearly gone with the heaviest :) and ditched the sausage that rotted anyway and possibly spent that on another fatty or just saved the money from the drain at least

and it had no roots too which was out of camera shot Dx!

-length can be excellent to go off if you already know the seller/trader grows fattassed cacti anyway

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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Ask for a length by width measurement before you buy.

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If they were a real prick...they could tweak weight as a measure as well :wink: happens to a lotta commodities

Possibly not everyone has quick access to scales?

But hey its not hard to take some plant porn with some scale to it.

Bic lighters work for me...lol....I recall a certain legendary red Bic lighter....

and I hope ur doing well mate and the plants are doing well :)

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Really? How do you decide what you'd like to buy or trade with people?

So how do you get the seller to indicate the size? Purely by weight? Purely based on pictures seen? Have you never bought plants online? Always just taken the sellers word as gospel? Ever been burnt?

Had plenty of great trades and purchases. Have never been burnt. Never bought by weight or length, but have often withdrawn from trades and purchases where plants were priced according to incremental length.

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Had plenty of great trades and purchases. Have never been burnt. Never bought by weight or length, but have often withdrawn from trades and purchases where plants were priced according to incremental length.

So if you've never bought/traded by weight or length, how do you make the decision that you are getting a fair deal that you are happy with? Do you just ask for a pic of the plant/cut then try and work out the size and quality from the pic to decide? Do you just agree on the plant type you want from the other person then and cross your fingers that it's 50cm instead of only 5cm?

Not baiting you, it's an honest question. You've expressed disgust at the methods most often used but I still don't get how you decide for yourself that you are happy with the price or trade deal for the plants you want... :scratchhead:

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Oftentimes trades involve visiting collectors and seeing plants or taking cuttings first hand.

Additionally since plants I purchase are priced per specimen, and not according to size or weight then there become two factors. First, a size and perhaps a photograph is given, but this does not determine price, secondly the form and it's history are often a factor.

For example, I have purchased a cutting of a clumping bridgesii, it was a simple single section, not particularly large or small but rather average for the form. The price was reasonable to me, something like $10. I lacked the form so obtained it and did so intending to grow it out. Age is one factor that has determined value to some degree insofar as seedlings are seldom expensive, nor priced by size or weight.

The issue of say Eileen verses PC in desirability was briefly mentioned, for me it illustrates a factor more important than overall size and that is say... individuality.

I have rarely sold plants, though I have given away hundreds and traded dozens over the years.

When I did sell I mentioned merely that the plants were seedlings and sold them for the cost of shipping plus 30% of that cost. The plants were generally only around 200g and about 15cm tall and about 4cm wide.

Additionally I donated over two hundred seedlings to a Botany Club sale at a local university. Most of the seedlings were of the spineless scop varieties and the plants were only 3cm wide by about six or seven CM tall. I sold them all for $3 each and gave the money directly to the club treasurer. In this case I priced them to make them easily affordable and ensure they would find homes and exist thus in private collections.

I admit not having the perspective of someone interested in making money with the plants. My intentions for growing and selling are primarily to share and promote the plants among those who would appreciate them.

Despite having bought dozens of plants over the years my primary emphasis is growing from seed. I have often had seed grown plants reach the same size or larger as plants I obtained as cuttings, though some never catch... up many do.

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The weight topic is tricky. As a collector I have seldom been concerned with size and am usually happy to have a form I desire.

I am extremely interested in purchasing some Pediocactus soon and will be happy to have merely established seedlings at a reasonable price from a mail order nursery

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Thanks Gunter, I see.

I have to admit it looks like you're thinking of a different situation to me. When buying plants via the internet as they are in a location far away from you it is pretty much imperative to have some knowledge of the size to avoid disappointment or being ripped off either intentionally or not.

When you can't simply go to a garden and look at the plants in person, talk to the grower and then select and cut a piece you have laid eyes on, it makes it much more important to be able to measure them in some manner to determine size.

Determining the size doesn't change whether it's rarer or more desirable but it allows you to figure out what it's worth based on both size AND rarity/desirability. For example, a 30cm cut of Eileen would be worth less than a 60cm cut of Eileen, just as a 30cm cut of PC would be worth less than a 60cm cut of PC. Although the smaller piece of Eileen MAY be worth as much, (or almost as much), as the larger cut of PC, you couldn't figure that out if you didn't know the size of each cut, could you?

You mention things like scarcity and desirability as being factors in deciding whether you want something or not, and I agree with you there. Of course the more something is in demand the more value it may have. But I still think some kind of measure of size must be used, whether that measure is seeing it in person, seeing a picture with a decent scale reference or having it's measurements taken with a ruler/tape measure.

My point is, sure something may be rare and you want to have a part of it, but by that logic that would make absolutely any size piece of the desired plant worth the same amount as each other. So hypothetically, for examples sake; say I was after some Eileen, does it mean that to me a 10cm piece is worth the same amount as a 50cm piece purely because I desire that exact plant and they are both genetically the same? No, it doesn't. So size, (and by extension, a decent way to measure size), really must come into play somewhere.

The way I take the original question is really in regards to online sales or sales coming from another state or country. Buying without seeing something in person is going to be different than the alternative of visiting collectors like you have had the good fortune to be able to do to grow the amount of plants in your garden.

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Very good points made by everyone, and a good discussion.

There can be issues using both length (but is it skinny or fat?) and weight (hydrated or dehydrated?). Personally, I prefer something in the picture for scale, as others have mentioned. A bic lighter, a coke can, a ruler. Then use that comparative tool to determine the fatness for a known length. I also care about condition (blemishes, scaring etc) above everything else, and will choose the smaller piece if it is in better condition.

I'd value those factors over weight personally, although I can certainly see situations where knowing the weight would be desirable.

Ideally a seller would list the weight, length, condition, history, some pictures of flowers, and perhaps some smokin' hot scantily clad women (or men, if you prefer) holding the cuts, for scale, of course.

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