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Robert Sheldrake - The science delusion. (Banned TED talk)

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Very interesting talk. He's much like Graham Hancock, evidence for different points of view against the current paradigm.

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rational wiki yeah that's a objective unbiased source uh huh

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you may as well link to encyclopedia dramatica for all that's worth

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Hey Dionysus, it's a 20 minute talk, give him a chance :)

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i think it's probably wise to take him with a grain of salt, like anything.

that said, i've been posting a lot of 'beware science dogma' stuff lately. i haven't been throttled for it yet! there have been times over the years when multiple practicing or studying scientists have been active posters and you could probably expect to be put on the spot.

anyway the take home message is an important one which i don't need to repeat. science is a bit like a skyscraper though, and if one floor isn't constructed properly it would benefit the skyscraper to have another look before continuing.

existing thread http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=36774&hl=%2Bsheldrake+%2Bhancock#entry442064

regarding scientific testing of psychic phenomenon. i think anybody could watch these videos, the guy doesn't come off as a nutjob, just somebody trying to apply experimental science in a taboo area. he even looks like the guy who ran the stargate experiments for the US military (remote viewing, psychic transmissions etc) who began with a "not convinced, not unconvinced" attitude although he quickly gathered promising results and even began involving himself in experiments. i learned from his findings that waking impressions and dreams are equally likely candidates for ESP.

can i throw in my own latest ESP story in which i dreamt of a NASA rocket explosion the day that the ISS resupply failed?

i was watching this porn the other day

and fell asleep halfway through, and had an extremely vivid and emotional dream in which i heard the NASA launch countdown (i remember something being said before the number five..?) and heard that awesome rumble as a space shuttle took off. i felt this might be footage from a shuttle disaster, even in the dream i suspected i was listening to launch footage from the video. the shuttle filled my view so i didn't see how far it got into the air, the external tank and boosters weren't visible, i just heard the thunderous sound continue as flames filled the shuttle and shot out of it.

i even had a half-arsed scan through the video i was watching to find the launch sequence because it didn't seem like it belonged in that video, then fell asleep (it might be there i dunno).

next day i googled shuttle disaster to see if the historical footage matched, turns out an unmanned resupply rocket blew up within a few hours of my dream, maybe exactly the time of my dream i don't know.

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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i do apologise for just posting youtube links, hopefully they are the most palatable form of media one can offer and hopefully they are halfway respectable even though the scientists are considered dissidents or if you like heretics.

if a more dilligent truth seeker can examine one of my links and show that it's just full of plain lies, i'd be more than appreciative to hear it.

FWIW that primer fields video is rather interesting although i think he tries to explain too much with his bowl shaped magnets. pretty sure his plasma experiments have been posted here before by somebody???? and on that note, i'll just say that the saffire experiment is probably underway as we speak and i look forward to posting some initial findings when EU has it's conference in january 2015.

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i'm not sure if mr sheldrake makes this point explicitly in the banned talk or longer versions of that talk, but for me it isn't about which side of an argument is righter than the other. that's the end goal, sure, to find some truth that is reflected by the world. in the meantime there must be room in academia and in education to allow for the co-existance and receptivity to alternative paradigms, not just one dominant paradigm!!

we could move faster and be more adaptable that way. it doesn't even matter if there is great evidence that the alternative paradigms are unsuitable. we'd still have something to fall back on if the dominant paradigm fails. we'd recognise it's failure more easily, AND, we'd get regular practice in critical thinking and comparing the merits of different approaches. we'd have the cognitive attributes of a feline instead of a bovine.

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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Thanks for the input ThuderIdeal! Appreciate it mate :)
Always welcome input to anything I post, even if you disagree and give your reasoning to why. I am going to start with the first Youtube vid then work my way through them.

I have just read your signature, that is a great statement.

... but for me it isn't about which side of an argument is righter than the other. that's the end goal, sure, to find some truth that is reflected by the world. in the meantime there must be room in academia and in education to allow for the co-existance and receptivity to alternative paradigms, not just one dominant paradigm!!

I have just become fully aware of how stubborn and right people want to be. Even in the sciences. I think Sheldrake talked about how the constant of gravity ISN'T constant, and depending on geographical location an time of the year, it changes. Not by much, but it none the less changes. It was made constant to tie in nicely to their outcomes.
Whether it was in that talk or another, I can't remember.

Thanks again! :)

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humanity just seems so sad & pathetic.......everything we are taught & told..our whole culture...its all just mostly lies...what a waste..

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I appreciate that he challenges the dominant scientific dogma, which I perceive as a machine that defines and authorizes itself. I don't have a problem with the very natural impulse to look at available information, observance, experience, others's experiences and form a probable story based on the information. We living beings have been doing this as long as we've existed. The appeal to science is the major damage in our era because it posits its truth as absolute. The very same culture that said/says 'God' and acted/acts astonished that there could be another version seems now to be saying 'Science' with the same astonishment. The effort is to come up with a One story that is the absolute truth period. We will always have our physiological, psychological, personal experiential, cultural, and animal lenses by which we perceive. To give some temporal perspective, Copernicus, Galileo, and others were viewed by the dominant paradigm of their times as obscure quacks too.

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I appreciate that he challenges the dominant scientific dogma, which I perceive as a machine that defines and authorizes itself. I don't have a problem with the very natural impulse to look at available information, observance, experience, others's experiences and form a probable story based on the information. We living beings have been doing this as long as we've existed. The appeal to science is the major damage in our era because it posits its truth as absolute. The very same culture that said/says 'God' and acted/acts astonished that there could be another version seems now to be saying 'Science' with the same astonishment. The effort is to come up with a One story that is the absolute truth period. We will always have our physiological, psychological, personal experiential, cultural, and animal lenses by which we perceive. To give some temporal perspective, Copernicus, Galileo, and others were viewed by the dominant paradigm of their times as obscure quacks too.

I totally agree with you. I have recently been exposing myself to philosophy and psychology talks on Youtube. From the many many lectures I have watched I have realised that I was still heavily leaning on the science dogma attitude toward life, as much as I thought I wasn't.

I got in to politics through philosophy, then the psychology of politics and then realised that people tend to fall into categories with or without realising it. Once I became aware of this, man, my perception of the world really hit home, in a bad way.

Dreamwalker's quote summed it up:

humanity just seems so sad & pathetic.......everything we are taught & told..our whole culture...its all just mostly lies...what a waste..

It's not peoples intention to be a certain way, it's the dogma/indoctrination that has shaped them. It's most prevalent in politics and religion, and as I have just realised, science to a certain degree.

Very fascinating stuff, but a bit bleak at the same time :)

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Nothing new nor debatable here =)

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I bought his book after watching the TEDx talk, was rather disappointed.

He's a half arsed scientist that needs to do a lot more studies before he opens his mouth.

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lets burn some tied theories.......... :uzi: the big bang.... :uzi: the infinite photon... :bootyshake: suits wearing bibs...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy47OQxUBvw

If you can get past the 1st several minutes of maths...& the unpolished editing....some really interesting perspectives will follow....

We have super computers now ...its time to leave the stale old trendy theories behind in kindergarten along with all their failings ..aptly named DARK.. D Matter...D. Energy...D They Don't know what 90% of it is ...so they make up stuff to fill & prop up the failing theories & call it DARK...

Why not be honest & admit we don't actually have a clue...but here's a pile of possibilities/theories...lets crank up the computer arrays to test the maths on ALL of them & admit our innocence....

http://existics101.com/

Edited by Dreamwalker.
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that was a pretty good twist ending with good twist ending music in case you didn't realise ANTI-MATTER IS GOING BACKWARDS ITS.... RIGHT THERE ITS RIGHT HERE ITS IN THE BACKWARDS TIME DIMENSION MOTHERFUCKER, LOOK AT THAT OSCILLATING SHIT ON THE GRAPH, FUCK MY BOOT

i can't really comment on his ideas, except that it seems like a fresh take largely from the perspective of current models. i don't feel like it goes far enough but hey, a neat idea is a neat idea. the comments section is pretty depressing. i didn't see anybody saying anything nice, everyone is too busy knowing better than everyone else.

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yeah, like most I brought into the big bang.........but it never felt right...& now it just seems absurd........Life the universe & everything is all about symmetry......you don't start creation with 50.000000000000000000000000000000000000001% matter & % remainder anti matter ....& why should their be a start at all? these pathetic people their ego's, career's & assumptions...the share crap I was taught at uni...what a waste of time & resources...........& you have to buy into it otherwise you won't pass..won't get employed...etc etc...big whoop!........mainstream science has just become another religion...all prostrate........& sadly people worship & quote those historic icons........Whereas any one who really knows their history & recognizes people are just as stupid today as yesterday....know that the real hero's ...science genius's...didn't get a looking...often their work was plagiarised... the elephants in the room ..watson & crick... thieving bastards...everyone knows it ...they still got fame fortune......newton was a creep supreme....You don't get to be rich & famous by playing fair................most of them are/were just prime time bastards.......... such is our world culture..........

Ultracold disappearing act: 'Matter waves' move through one another but never share space

The journey to the other side of absolute zero Edited by Dreamwalker.

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Publication and theory strike me as a minuscule part of the scientific paradigm, theories and claims mean little until they provide some meaningful technology.

People talk about ideas and concepts having meaning or effecting change... I disagree.

The theory of electricity is nothing compared to the technology using it.

Abstract theory is, even when plausible, not particularly meaningful, until it affects our lives in a tangible way.

Telepathy... a meaningless thing even if true until it is utilized the way science allows.

The internet... it works because of science, it was invented and is used, in a consistent reproducible way because science is real. To use the internet and computer tech to argue against science is absurdly ironic.

When we have telepathy settings for phones then Sheldrake will be more than food for thought. Some people care about opinions, me... well i like the tech. Show me an opinion that helps me accomplish something.

I do not view the opinion of scientists to be science, or even significant. When it affords effect that is entirely consistent and objective then it has meaning. A phone works regardless of a persons opinion or view. Changing your mind or believing something does not alter how your automobile works or where you are now.

I see the rejection of science as a backwater bogan disorder.

Edited by Gunter

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How is that not all the same thing? Anyway who is rejecting science here?

abstract theory and gadgets progess side by side more or less. if you're only interested in the resultant gizmos then so be it, i guess.

i offer this:

Edited by ThunderIdeal

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Technology represents proof through function.

Abstract conjecture with mathematical proofs without functional purpose is pseudoscience.

Science as an ongoing self correcting process cannot "go wrong" it is not a linear journey with a single destination, ergo it cannot arrive at a false conclusion or a wrong direction.

A lot of people reject science vocally while driving, talking on the phone etc. It is rather silly.

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Certainly not rejecting science, on the contrary its the pseudo-science that's the problem

I feel its due to a mix of ego's ...status/career etc & limited resources...its a highly competitive occupation, which means brilliant creative minds/thought is pushed aside by a bully like succeed at all cost ideology, more suited to those with high social skills & memory, but generally lacking in creative insight.

Case in point

To succeed in academia, grad students need 'street smarts'

http://phys.org/news/2014-11-academia-grad-students-street-smarts.html

Basically the article points out you need to lick a lot of arse, if you want a career in research.

I agree with you re functional purpose/Technology...but with out preceding theories none of that would have arisen,

Edited by Dreamwalker.
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Basically the article points out you need to lick a lot of arse, if you want a career in research.

actually it doesn't say anything of the sort. it's pretty straight forward stuff, in a saturated market you need to put yourself forward and stand out. this is standard advice for anyone trying to get a job nowadays,

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