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Planthelper's complaint

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I have not forgotten, that you still owe me, some money, I wait for this money now since years.

we had a verbal handshake contract. but instead of trying to solve the issue, you just always just attacked me, via pm's.

grow up, torsten don't treat me that bad.

sorry for the side track people, but this issue bugs me since a long time.

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I had assumed this was a private issue between us, but as you've been badmouthing me behind my back and now posted this publically in a totally unrelated thread I presume you would prefer to have this out in public. I hope it was worth it.

So here is the story.

In 2007 planthelper wanted to go overseas and he was distraught about losing all his plants while he is away. In the 2 months before he tried to get plant heads to rent his property, but when that didn't work he sold some of his stock and eventually asked me if I would take the rest. I told him that I was mostly just interested in the hoodias, but that I will look after the rest of the plants he displayed in the picture. As I was organising to drive up to see him he told me hat he needed to get rid of a lot more plants than discussed, but that they are free and he just wants to be able to get the genetics back if he ever comes back to australia.

The problem was that the extra plants would not fit in my car. So I calculated that there was a few hundred dollars worth of saleable khat and ephedra plants which would pay for a hire van for the 3 days. I picked up the plants and again discussed at length what the arrangement is, which was that he wanted me to hold onto all the genetics for future sourcing propagants either from overseas or on return to australia. He helped me separate out the more precious plants so that I would know which ones to sell and which ones to keep for propagating. Out of all the plants there was only one single plant I was instucted not to sell because he wanted the original back. This was a khat hybrid.

Fast forward a few months and PH is back in the country, still happy with the original agreement (#1).

A few days later he is asking for some of the Lophs back. I explain to him that I can't deliver many of the species into Qld as I had soem legal trouble and had to keep my nose 100% clean, but that I'd be happy to mail him whatever he needs. He replies that he just wants half the Lophs now and for me to sell all the rest of the stuff I don't want. But more telling he suddenly talks about the value of the plants and an expectation of some payment (#2). I didn't protest because I knew he needed money and realised he probably felt a lot of regret having given away all those plants for what turned out to be a much shorter overseas stay.

A week later PH is spelling out the new expectations quite bluntly (#3). Suddenly [after 'negotiating' - whatever that means] he 'feels' there should be money in it for him. As the PM started with a big whinge about how broke he was I agreed that I will pay him something. I also again offered to mail him any plant he wants, except for the large khats.

A day later Ph is asking for all the Lophs and some viridis, and for me to keep the rest. PH then comes to visit me and to look at the plants, but takes NONE with him. I offer that we can send whatever he picks out, but he doesn't want any of them. I figured he'd changed his mind again.

2 years later in 2010 we are finally getting somewhere and I send PH 3/4 of the Loph collection as requested by him in a PM (#5). PH seems disinterested in his own plants, but feels I should be sorting out the 'debt' by supplying him with my stock. The debt concept is now set in my mind too, so I also send him some Psychotria, khat and ephedra as requested

Later in 2010 PH is now not happy with the Lophs that he received and decides he wants more stuff (#6). iboga, kava, yohiemba, tunera. I send him all of them - even multiples of some. And then a couple of special requests as well.

In 2011 he starts making more requests and then offers a 'final settlement' solution (#7) which is to send some phalaris grass seeds to a friend in germany and to give him 200 Hoodia seeds.

By the end of 2011 he sends me a PM stating that none of the Hoodia seeds germinated, but also stating [unprompted] that he does not want anything else instead (#8).

The last attempt to settle this was out of pure frustration. I sent PH an image of the rest of my Lophs because he thinks I am hiding a special one that he is looking for. He was supposed to mark the image so I know what to look for. Not sure if he ever did as this was done by email and I lost about 6 motnhs worth of emails around that time.

I have little doubt that even once the latest demand is complied with there will be more demands.


Below are the quotes from our communications to show that I am not making this ridiculous shit up.


31st oct 2007
chances are, i will go overseas again in a few months time, so maybe it would be an option for me to sell (and/or give away, for the chance to get stock again when ever i might start again) my whole collection.
however some plants and cacti i would like to take with me overseas.


3rd Nov 2007

it was a good collection, worth some good money.
most of the stuff was for you to sell anyway, i guess you can turn the rest into money aswell, all i would like back are halve of the lophs asap, and later maybe some plants to start working overseas again.

i expected some money from you, but naturaly i would be patient.


12th Nov 2007

a lot of the plants were for you to sell or to keep, after negotiating i feel there should be some money for me in it..


13th Nov 2007

basicly i would like all the lophs and some viridis (could be small ones even).
all the rest you keep


13th Jan 2010

ich bitte dich mir meine kollektion wieder zukommen zu lassen.
ich denke, du koenntest ein drittel der lophs behalten, denn du hast wohl einen bezug zu ihnen.
ausserdem braeuchte ich auch: psychotria viridis, rote catha edulis, ephedra sinica, sceletium tortuosum


28th august 2010

if all those missing lophs are gone, than i would suggest, you try to set me up with something else instead.
iboga, kava, yohiemba, tunera, i would be interressted in.


5th august 2011

so here is my new settlement approach:
1, send me 2 red phalaris, because i want to make a person happy in germany.
2, send me as many hoodia gordonii seeds as you feel is ok to settle the whole thing.. i would guess 200 seed's would be fair. let me know what you think.


29th Nov 2011

von deinen hoodia samen habe ich leider nicht's hoch gebracht.
ersatz, will ich keinen.

The initial set of plants: http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?app=gallery&image=1272

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