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Glass Roots

Are we holding our hybrids back?

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There have been some very interesting crosses of the best clones out there. But it seems like most of everyone ends up weeding out most of their seedlings for a select few early on.

Everyone has got their reasons, be it límited space, time, etc... But to get the best of the best out of these batches (whatever best means to you), these little beauties need to be grown out.

People could be getting bottom of the barrel seeds and have no idea. If you're going off initial traits like vigor or size, those could both change once they start maturing. There's too many variables to be able to discern what a seedling will be like 5 years down the road.

It just feels like a disservice is being done to these cacti. :/

Edited by Glass Roots
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any solutions?

I'm editing in here cause I can't really add to the flow below...

after reading the below post..........I'd like to say...

It does seem criminal to throw any healthy plant into the compost...give them away...put them in a box & leave on the road side or something....but then I have a hard time culling..

got a little pot belly piglet last season that had arms instead of front legs...an abomination .sister/brother thing..like royalty..but she does fine..weird looking monstrose..

Anyway's, I have heaps of space so it all gets planted to create a cacti forest....each little seedling represents so much invested time...there's a certain attachment & curiosity to see what it will grow into...& then selectively breed with the traits your keen on.

Edited by Dreamwalker.
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I grow hundreds of hybrids out, cull nothing.

I give them away to control my numbers.

'

Another give away coming up soon.

Getafix

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my problem is limited space. 100 seedlings are cute in the takeaway container, but once they all need a pot for their own the trouble starts. Its hard for me to find enough people willing to help me grow them out. (europe people pm me :)

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I grow all the seeds out! :) Just throw em here! Ha Ha Ha.

Pretty sure most people here grow their stuff out! But i also know some who don´t and i can understand both sides. I know german growers who throw adult Plants on the compost if they don´t like the flower and i hate that like the Plague. There will always be people who appreciate them. If you don´t have the space, write a post in the forum or put them on ebay or gift them to the grandmother next door. ;)

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Giving/trading them away is an awesome way to let them be put to good use, but then you'll never know which were the better cacti. Even if you were able to keep track of them all the growing conditions and inputs would change. The only way to truly know would be grow them out in the same location, same ferts, soil mix, etc.

There's not really a solution for most people. If your limited by space or ability then all you could do would be to keep what you can.

I do think that at least a few people should sow seeds of the (hopefully) most promising hybrids extensively. Maybe a couple hundred of each cross. If they have the room, they could let them get 4-5 years old no problem before they chose the best. Keeping track of all the importr

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I have to many seedlings to no what to do with space is always a limiting factor it drives me nuts

they are to small to give away at this point I'd be scared to send hem as I don't think they would survive the post I dunno maybe they would

my problem is mainly with small seedlings my hothouse is full of all my goodies such as rare and unusual plants I have trouble with making enough room to move them from inside to outside in the hothouse its just to small at this point

as I said it really drives me nuts im considering buyin a cheap ass greenhouse off ebay but they still seem overly priced I really don't know what to do myself

I can tell you I have 37 containers here full of seedlings here and in those 37 containers theres probly around 10 000 seedling I seriously have no room left at all theyre just taking up more and more space

my biggest problem is some of these seeds are a few yrs old and ive been getting slowly declining germ rates from them so I basically need to sow everything I can as fast as I can to get as much as possible out of it all which is turning into a real prick its taking up so much room I have no choice but to buy another 2 lights to keep up

Edited by myco

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I've often wondered about this myself.

I think it is fair enough to favour the stronger seedlings over the runts when they are small. A certain amount of hybrid vigor is expected from early on in their lives, so selecting them is a good start.

One can judge them a little harsher once they are older, find their faves and breed with those that are considered healthier/ superior in a whole variety of ways.

I think this is generally known as line breeding, and it certainly produces bigger/stronger plants.

I guess runty plants can still be grafted onto a strong stock, but would people really want to go down the path of breeding with anything less than big strong specimens? (rhetorical question) :)

Edited by Halcyon Daze

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selection is key! keep selecting the traits you like and make new awesomeness!!

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selection is key! keep selecting the traits you like and make new awesomeness!!

right on mate !!

and the key to culling is higher priced, limited availability seeds for highly desirable hybrids :wink:

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My message got cut off half way.

Essentially what I was saying is I'd like to see some mass propagating of favored hybrids done in controlled settings, by people who have the room to grow out 1000's of cacti.

Although you might be able to weed out seedlings early on with certain variables, I would want to wait until I could cut off at least 5cm at no detriment to the cactus. If you waited until then, you simply couldn't weed out seedlings. Sure girth, height, and vigor are commendable traits to look for, but they're not the only ones.

If a few out of a 1000 were found to be the most desirable, it would be nice to have a name for these specific cacti to separate them from the generic seed floating around of the same cross. Same process as other plants just a little more complicated with cacti because of the time factor.

Keeping logs of all the different inputs/variables with growing like this would give growing trich a little bit more structure. It would cut out the guess work on traits, lineage, and make it easier to decide which crosses/clones are even worth meddling with.

Edited by Glass Roots

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If we did this, we could actually start some very worth while selective breeding. Say a PsychoO style bridge the size of the biggest Scop's.

Sure this would take many years, but there's no better time than the present. ^^

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Glass roots - if you don't want people to select them and thin them out for girth, height, vigor or aesthetics what characteristics do YOU want from your seedlings then?

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A person can do whatever they want with their seeds, it's their choice.

A few things that come to mind with me just waking up, could be it's ability to seed (often, with high success), even everything you mentioned, but after it's matured like I stated before, hell even the vascular ring if that's your thing.

I'm not sure if there is, but I don't know of any evidence that suggests that any of the statistics of a seedling correlates with the same variables when it's matured.

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welcome to the art, science and black majik of selection :wink:

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I like runts, I got 2 mutants, 1 bridgesii & 1 SS02xPachanoi, from runts of seedlings.

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You who live in desert places, Australia or southern US - how about just setting your plants free? Take a road trip and leave a cactus here and there. They don't need to be planted after all, should be easy.

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got a little pot belly piglet last season that had arms instead of front legs...an abomination .sister/brother thing..like royalty..but she does fine..weird looking monstrose..

A pig with arms? I have to admit I'm curious to see that.

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be hard to capture with a pic....cause it doesn't stand upright...it races about on its front elbows, instead of using its trotters (which have doubled up..ie 2 trotters per arm......back is kinda curved as well...hopefully she's sterile...I'm a bit concerned she may learn how to climb my fruit trees :) she's as big/small as a cat.

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