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rigger

Stimulant ideas/discussion

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I just buy hydroxycut .... the new one with the green coffee in it,.... I do not take it every day,... so just 1 pill keeps me awake for 7 hrs at least. I also work shifts. sometimes even 1 is too much for me. When I get home after a night shift I go straight to bed and notice that I do not sleep that well, and still feel the hydroxycut after I wake up.

maybe cycle your stimulants to avoid building up tolerance.

Some people can work 7 days a week without any probs,... but make sure you keep get enough, movement, sleep and eat healthy

I like my free time too much, but I have known people that worked 80 to 90 hrs a week. Sometimes when you have the right people around you, enough social interaction on the job,... then it can be okay to work long hours or work 7 days a week.

Be sure you know the signs of being chronically stressed or overworked. Look it up!!!

I've had my personal work / relationship induced crisis and thankfully, it did not develop into getting completely overworked, because I recognized the symptoms and took action on time.

Stimulants have added some serious problems in that time of crisis. Chest pains and more. I thought I was about to get a heart attack at several times. Had myself checked out and stopped the stimulants (caffeine & hydroxycut , monster energy drinks). Also consulted with Health and safety services,.. this was necessary as there were / are things going on, on the workfloor, that caused stress situations, that management had a hand in. I was more concerned for my health than a solution for the probs at work, so I did not go to my Union.

Just giving these examples as they may be helpful.

Now I only take stimulants when I have the night shift and just coffee in the day time shifts. Sometimes when I exercise, depending if my work schedule allows for it, because I need to be very disciplined about getting enough sleep.

I totally get it man,... I love my stimulants when I am at work,... makes me be that buzzing up beat happy whistling mofo,... just like those High Ho singing 7 dwarfs! :D

woof your post was intriguing enough for me to buy some hydroxycut hardcore elite 110 caps bottle. following the directions i took one today before brekky and it took abit of time but kicked in nicely.

An energetic buzz came on after an hour or so but just enough for a lift without crazy scatteredness etc.

i bottled up a barrel of IPA, sterilized some pots for chillis and weeded some of my garden........and i finished work this morning at 7am, slept till 11.30am and went from there.

Worth more experimenting for me personally because my appetite has also diminished and i'm trying to reduce my girth so i can fit back into my bikini bottom for summer :innocent_n:

i like the light almost not noticeable effects it gives you using a pretty innocuous combination of legal substances.

i'll report back when i try upping doses(if need be).

cheers woof

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Cheshire, Glad you enjoy the product but just be mindful some of these companies are unethical and Muscle tech is one of the more questionable ones. Caffeine, the most effective and least toxic part of this product is available more cheaply and in far more accurate dosage as no doz. all or none of the stated ingredients could be in this product. most likely the dosages are not correct, Multiple under dosed ineffective ingredients (label decoration) come from china which may or may not comply to some or any standards. Why would people buy it? it is marketed very well.

If you want to use these products here is a useful tip I learned a long time ago ( and since stopped using most products!)

* send an email to the company asking the following. Do you have results of independent or any analysis of the product you are using. most wont

* ask the country and factory name the primary or any ingredients are sourced. can you find a webpage about them such as creapure for example.

* ask if they blend the product themselves or is blended at their request from an overseas factory.

* ask for references to studies in regard to claims made on the product (generally the are irrelevant, different dosage, not conducted on humans, poorly designed, uncontrolled studies or may even be funded by a company with an interest in selling the product.

** Everyone on here is smart enough to answer these questions themselves but this is not the point of the email, the real result is in the response you receive. I have been ignored or been given advice or answers which are showed no understanding of the product whatsoever. If you get a response which is helpful and informative at least you know the company is trying to make a decent product and its up to you to research if that product is worthwhile.

- diminished appetite is good if your snaking too much but if it stops you eating a proper meal it will be detrimental in the long run and rarely results in the desired physique. Macro nutrient balance is often misunderstood due to weird diets. There is basic guidelines but no right or wrong way. I know this answer sucks but the only way to know what works for you is to trial a few different (non controversial ones) with a similar exercise/activity levels for periods of at least 8-12 weeks. I could go into much more detail but its not necessary at this level. If you do this you will get a fair idea after 36 weeks what suits you and your lifestyle. One general rule you can apply for some results is to try to avoid high simple carb and high fat in the same meal.

-If you enjoy the feeling of hydroxycut you may be surprised that a home brewed green tea (using lots of leaf, it will taste awful) combined with a no doz or similar may give you a very similar effect although much more trust worthy.

- This is just an opinion but one in which I have studied a lot and made several of my own observations. I believe a healthy individual undertaking normal activities has similar cardiovascular risk when taking either weight loss / preworkout product or a correct dose of clean methamphetamine. Some studies point to this also but it is bad advice to the general public because 1) they may not have very pure meth. 2) they will generally take too much meth. 3) most Important! meth is far more addictive due to its effect on dopamine than a preworkout etc. Taking these things into account its easier to see the safe blanket option is to ban meth in place of these other products. Im not trying to promote meth but consider if you think meth is dangerous; depending on you reasons a pre workout can have similar risks.

If we forget about methamphetamine as an illegal drug and propose it was always say a legal weight loss tablet. Packaged with instructions for dosage, do not use more than 3 day in a row, do not take doses less than 12 hours apart. Taking more than the recommended dose for long periods or in unhealthy individuals may cause serious heart complications etc. It could be much more effective than most of the products we have today and with minimal risk when taken in accordance to the instructions.

I don't want my comments to be taken the wrong way here They just to serve as an example that you cant just trust products because they are legal, research them just as much as you would an illegal one. If you want a preworkout/weightloss as I suggested earlier in the post do not use caffeine in any form for a month or more for best results. same dose of strong green tea but ramp up caffeine daily, so 100mg, 150mg, etc. I would stop at around 600mg and then take a week off. use it for as long as it is effective. raising caffeine each day is important for maximum effect but dosages can be adjusted for your own needs.

Sorry to keep bringing meth up Cheshire as I know you don't like it and that fair enough. The main reason I bring it up is it has more profound effects on in the areas hydroxycut etc claim. Caffeine is proven to improve performance and its weight loss is a product of that more so than speeding up metabolism or thermogenic effects. Generally these fat burners are effective for someone with a good understanding of diet and exercise at a low body fat to get to a very low body fat for a short period.

Anyway, if you like the feeling of hydroxycut I recommend giving the caffeine/green tea plan a try. If you don't like it or want to by all means use hydroxy cut. If you want to lose weight for summer I would be happy to try to give relevant advice. There is heaps of advice out there but without applying it correctly to the situation it may not be effective.

When I talk about meth as being effective for weight loss I am comparing it's effects compared to hydroxycut or similar. Meth is not effective for weight loss unless you have a understanding how to apply it and have great overall fitness and training programs. If you don't have at least these things to put it simply there is 95% chance you will become weak and skinny and then fat again. It is less effective than a good diet and training program overall in all but a very small number of cases. these cases still must have good diet/training and you would want to be making money from your body to consider it. It would be far less effective than testosterone,hgh etc that are already commonly used in these situations

Edited by rigger

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I have produced yet another very long post! lol, I prob wouldn't want to read that but there is some worthwhile stuff in there.

The points get lost is such a long post but being a stimulant thread I felt the mention of them in relation to the issue of weight loss was relevant as was the precautions of such products.

When these points are mixed with weight loss tips its just really long and doesn't do justice to either topic so Ill start another weight loss thread and hopefully this might be more useful to those who want to discuss this.

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For me hydroxycut simply works good enough as stimulant. And actually I get hungry rather quickly when I pop one or 2. Other products do not have the same effect on me. I guess it is the green coffee extract that helps to burn up the available energy in the blood and cells quickly.... at least green coffee is one of the ingredients that I do not see in many other products leading to my conclusion. Maybe I'll try out green coffee extract alone to see if that is indeed the case.

I've tried many stimulant products in my life. From many of the body building fat burners and in the Netherlands products bought in the so called smart shops, many types were and are still sold, that are not easily obtainable outside Europe. I've seen so many of the same ingredients come back in different formulas over the years that I am not easily impressed by herbal cocktails anymore. For me it has simply become as simple as "does it keep me awake without getting jittery?" and "Does it boost my metabolism in a nice way?"

For weight loss I recommend mostly just diet and exercise. Better to do it on your own, than use pills...... and only if you want to get ultra ripped... haha,.. then herbal stimulants and maybe Clenbuterol hehehe. Clenbuterol also has stimulating effects,... but I do not know if they are ok. Clenbuterol is probably very illegal for non prescribed use.

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thankyou rigger for such a detailed response :)

I totally agree with your points but i must stress at my age i've been through most the stims and their derivatives, been addicted to meth and his friends, been shaken up in detox and rehabs and generally been around the block enough times to know the score.

my reason for buying some of the hydroxy was curiosity mainly and to also give it a spin more for my wife.

I doubt i would spend much time on these types of products because simply put, they can be pretty expensive and lame compared to what i know about concoctions, potions, admixtures etc and their uses.

I'm not taking these things too seriuosly, so it's ok bro.

My point is that being an inquisitive creature i just like to try different things.

I read woofs post and thought, "well why not? I've choked down some pretty dubious powders in the past.

As woof says - and i totally agree - the product is ok for a temp boost when needed. tolerance for these types of products builds extremely fast for me, so the occasional flip of a couple of these tabs is easy and quick(i'm lazy :P).

They are no substitute for proper diet-yes again i know that but your point is relative for someone with little or no experience in these matters and quite valid.

I know my limitations these days and try (within reason :wink: ) to stick to those guidlines i have developed and honed over the years for my wife and i.

Lets be blunt mate, if i need a boost these days meth is not an option because i have been lost in it's grip before, waka and modifinal have a half life which is too much for me and ephedrine etc are just plain to jittery (as is guarana).

The slower pace for life i have these days suits Hydroxycut -used infrequently- seems fine within my constitution but i doubt it would even register on some peoples dials around this place :)

love

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a fresh and organic alkaline juice always makes me feel more awake and gives me that natural energy boost. lemon, apple, spinach, kale coconut water, spirulina is a delicious combination :)

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edit.

Sorry Cheshire what I meant was im glad you get a bit of a kick out of the hydroxy cut. caffeine and green tea is an alternative. give it a try sometime. They don't act as fat burners in a traditional sense but can really help with motivation to exercise, mood and energy which helps. they could also boost metabolism slightly. seems like your also enjoying daily tasks and getting things done. its great to have a different energy to appreciate everyday tasks.

It was just a bonus tv offer or something so you got supplement company ethics for posting in the next fifteen minutes but wait there's more! how about some random facts about fat burners call now and receive a bonus comparison of various substances and fat burning potential which are neither mentioned or under consideration!

Sorry about needless focus on meth as a fat burner. "its too much" "try doing less" "try just having a bit and some beer" "you don't seem to enjoy it anymore" "take a break you'll feel better" is generally all I say about it to many mates who struggle with it. Thing is here you don't see the person or the situation. so sometimes your judgement isn't what it should be.

Problem was I was trying to help and rather than keep it simple I pulled every bit of information I could think of and threw it out in a mess for people to skim in an attempt to find the point.

Sometimes when someone says something dumb to me I think "oh well there is usually a reason people say dumb things" In this case it is also true, I was a bit off color when posting this because I just drove 7 hours leaving at 4.00 am that day. So take it for what it is. A bunch of sleep deprived rambling with no real meaning other than grouping a bunch of random points in a strange an ineffective way to offer help that was never really requested in the first place.

Edited by rigger

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Sorry about needless focus on meth as a fat burner. "its too much" "try doing less" "try just having a bit and some beer" "you don't seem to enjoy it anymore" "take a break you'll feel better" is generally all I say about it to many mates who struggle with it. Thing is here you don't see the person or the situation. so sometimes your judgement isn't what it should be.

Just wanna chime in on this one with recent observations of some close mates... it's amazing when they turn around and surprise you!!!

2 friends had practically been on the same run together for 2+ years straight, buying by the ball, and the impact on their lives were polar opposite as was the ability to just stop suddenly.

Mate1 is the typical story, losing jobs, decline in happiness, still really struggling.

Mate2 was the surprising one, working 6x10hr days a week, got promoted, settled down with a girl and she eventually wanted him to stop for her sake as she didn't like how she was getting hooked as a result. He just stopped. Still working the same amount, just not socializing as much because he actually needs to sleep now after working so hard... that and he's settled down with someone and deserves the boring comforts.

It makes me happy to see people handle their shit so well for so long... among all the sadder stories anyways.

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hey rigger don't stress mang. it's ok. it's a discussion......you should read some of the batshit crazies i've posted here over the years -foof- and i know it has irked some but i think they still love me :bootyshake:

More than anything i'd like to make the point that i firmly believe in all drugs for all people.

That is, we as humans should have the right to take, sniff, snort, smoke,vapourize,shoot,inject, shelve, lick, suck,poke our own bodies how we see fit.....not beholden to archaic laws that really don't promote safe use of substances nor allow the passing on of knowledge to empower yourself as you see fit.

Ofcourse things that have a high propensity for abuse ie opiates or amphet derivitives can be difficult.

If something has control over you it's never a good scenario and when it detracts from enjoying your life without limitations, then well, yes, a re-evaluation is probably not such a bad idea.

Having an outlet or a confidante for perspective is a bonus.

The freedom to chose our own destiny and ingest whatever the fuck we want and when we want is the real bitch.

Awareness of the facts, harm minimisation and heath education are paramount to this discussion.

cheers mang

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lol, im not really stressed in the sense I think you were overly bothered by it. ;)

It's just important for me to look and say how much of this is relevant and is any relevance being lost in the complexity of it all. Sometimes you can oversimplify other times its probably a good idea.

It's good to notice that while I think I have more control over things than in the past just check for subtle signs. If you bring up meth 15 times in an answer in which it has no real relevance it's got a hold of you in some way. I know this from other substances I have used in the past.

I agree with your opinion on freedom of choice. There are many things you can take to really enhance your enjoyment of life none without equal draw backs. take the ups with the downs. Risk for reward or take a steady road. Remember this and don't regret what you cannot change.

I agree it's a discussion but there is a difference between discussion and what is just a random thought train. But its not surprising or unexpected that someone who loves there stims is going to produce 1000 words of irrelevant gold such as this. The beauty of this format is you can skip it, not have to find your way into another room or cling to the next person who walks by to get away from it :)

Edited by rigger

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hey

some friend of mine was given an orangish speed (source: spain) that is kind of orangish, just a tid bit. Still it came with good recommendations. Also, some other friend saw it and said the white particles its got is not speed, the orange stuff is...

any idea why it might be orange and what kind of speed it might be due to the colour?

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hang on. i don't want to read all of this stuff now. should i be rushing out to buy some hydroxycut, or is it just going to end up in my enormous pile of unsatisfactory second-rate semi-legal products with a dubious stimulant matrix on the label?

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any idea why it might be orange and what kind of speed it might be due to the colour?

If you're lucky, it's just had food colouring added to it. If you're unlucky, it hasn't been cleaned up properly after synthesis - the colour could be from residual red phosphorous/iodine - not things you want in your bloodstream. Just fucken laziness on the part of the chemists, it's not like it's hard to wash some crystals. This kind of thing always worries me - if the chemists don't know how to wash & recrystallise something, then what else have they fucked up?

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Thanks for the link... I think my friend is lucky anyways, as I always thought speed as euro-speed, alphetamine HCl or something.. Looks as if my friend will have the chance to try the progeny of this... I was asking them at how many mg did they take it, but as far as I understood they took little, so I told him, hey could it be speed what yr taking, and he said no, of course not (he didn't like the idea he was taking the devil of all stims). So, meth is supposed to be active at 100mg insufl?

Edited by mutant

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I remember about 10 years ago there used to be a lot of orange/red speed going around. Some people called it "ox blood." It was very strong! I assume this was just dye added for reasons similar to logos pressed on pills. A way of identifying a certain gang/groups quality gear (until various others knock it off/imitate it.)

Btw 100mg of meth is quite a bit if you don't use regularly. You may even go alright of half that and save the rest if you feel like it later.

Edited by rigger
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orange could also be indicative of a poor workup from eph. sulphate..... white with a cutting agent

red/pink is not fit for consumption, purely profit driven and lazy shit. In a past life I knew some jokers that kept it in

to give market recognition as "pink champagne".....fckrs

....I know nothing of chemistry with that said.

On a side note , smoking yohimbe had a very suprising profound effect on me...lol

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Pink shits just oxidised contac NT lol kettle cleaner and pool chems in some dead shits back shed, its a cathinone ride doesnt last long, would love to know wtf ox blood is, guys over 50 still sling the shit turns your cock inside out frizzles you for days im assuming its a psudo bake of sorts using iodine?

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pink shit was left over phos.....and fckd shit up all over the place ....no lol on that one.

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It's not gonna be a ground-breaking suggestion by any means, but the old tried-and-true caffeine tablets (No-Doz for example) are what I used to use, or just coffee.

The thing with stims is that which goes up must inevitably come down, so I'd be wary of looking at things from the perspective of "overall gain". IME they're very much a short-term gain that you will inevitably end up paying for in some way. That being said I'm sure without coffee I wouldn't have been able to pull off the whole "morning person" thing for a year-and-a-half. It didn't do my mental or physical health any favours though.

I'd steer clear of workout supplements...those companies tend to be dodgy as f*ck.

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Dunno if I mentioned this before.... a security guard put me onto these a while back.

I'll also add "miltary energy gum" into the caffiene zone....100mg/piece on par with no doz ....but works quicker on me.

I keep a pack or two of this in my work backpack for those 16+ hr days/mine site safe and bush battle bag when at play. Barely use it...but when I need too it breaks me through :wink:

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EDIT - four pieces has had like Tweak from southpark....lol

Edited by waterboy

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Hey lofty, crazy to hear ox blood is still going round!

The strange thing was it used to melt!? not like it was wet but if you line up and left one for later you would come back and it was just liquid! Im not sure what would be responsible for this but it always happened, not just a particular batch etc. I did wonder if iodine was involved but really have no idea.

Exactly like you mention it was very long lasting and strong. Even though I used stimulants quite a lot back then I used to get myself in trouble with this all the time! next day you think "omg did I actually say/do that last night!" Not saying I'd never touch it again but it deserves a lot of respect!

waterboy and gtarman I agree caffeine is a good energy stimulant. problem is like all stims tolerance builds very quickly :( The strange thing is pure caffeine in large doses can produce an unpleasant comedown. For me I would just maybe have a cone when coming down off other substances but with caffeine it can just make it worse. It's not unbearable or even close, just a small downside.

It's interesting to note the difference between caffeine and coffee. Coffee produces a much different effect due to other compounds present. 400mg of no doz is much more energetic than the equivalent cup of coffee. Coffee is both stimulating and relaxing.

Edited by rigger

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I'd steer clear of workout supplements...those companies tend to be dodgy as f*ck.

you can learn your way around their bullshit. in the case of pre-workouts which may include stimulants, sometimes it's better if the manufacturer is dodgy. it means they might sneak in an illegal ingredient, and sometimes illegal means good! :P

i mean, it doesn't get much dodgier than a speed dealer, and 100% of their return customers suffer few illusions about it.

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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Btw 100mg of meth is quite a bit if you don't use regularly. You may even go alright of half that and save the rest if you feel like it later.

Just as another point of reference... prescription doses of methamphetamine start around 2mg. A little can go a long way.

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