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Auxin

The ebola medicine game

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I thought it might be interesting to discuss pros and cons of herbal medicines potentially relevant to ebola, just to see what we come up with.

It starts like the flu with fever, fatigue, pain, and general malaise. Anorexia and purging are common. In the worst stage it can cause bleeding all over the place but most voluminously in the intestinal tract. Kidney and liver damage is known. Some how it can shut down organs, I'm not clear how.

Its transmitted by contact with body fluids from infected people. Apparently not airborne to any demonstrable degree.

Direct antiviral drugs, kill the fucker:

Isatis indigotica root and leaves are a common antiviral/antibiotic drug in the east. Its broad spectrum and it reduces fever. It might not be a good idea because large or prolonged dosing even in ideal situations can cause kidney damage and ebola damages the kidneys too. The chinese refuse to use it when the patient is severely weakened, which ebola does pretty much from the start. Possible use as a topical wash when disinfecting?

Scutellaria baicalensis root seemingly gets most of its antiviral effects from its flavonoid content, its also protective to the liver. Its got some immune regulator activity, possibly from the phytosterols in there. Its a known hemostatic, reducing bleeding (its seeds have been used for intestinal bleeding as well). Its been used to prevent miscarriage. Does this one have a down side?

Andrographis paniculata leaf is also antiviral and liver protecting. It is well known to reduce fever too. Tastes like Calea but without the nice butter flavor.

Lymph supporting, so proper circulation of immune cells and removal of toxins would probably help:

Large variety in this class, more dependent on what you have.

Prunella vulgaris spike is a detoxicant that also lowers fever, thats groovie. At 10+ grams per day thats lots of dried spikes, trust me. Its also styptic and vulnerary- stops bleading and helps woulds heal on physical contact (is this effect systemic at all?)

Dandelion root, theyre fucking everywhere- easy to get. It also protects the liver and helps weakened connective tissues heal. Phagocyte stimulant. Fresh is best.

Burdock root, similar to dandelion root, often combined.

The list goes on...

Antiseptics, hell- gotta rinse the bleach off you with something:

Gargling with antiseptic/vulnerary teas is known to reduce cold infection incidence. Green tea is often used. Even if ebola isnt airborne who wants ebola and a cold :P

Lots of shit: prunella spike, plantago leaf, many polygonums, acacia bark, etc.

Ebola can cause the shits, and thus dehydration, and thus ORT is used like with cholera and dysentery. If you've got lots of stuff pouring through bleeding intestines why not add vulneraries (wound healing herbs) and styptics (bleeding stoppers).

Guns, I'm american- you know I had to involve a gun :wink:

Thoughts? Recipes from grandma? Ammo for my gun? You can stand behind me :)

Edited by Auxin
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Coconut water is a tasty natural alternative to ORS. Add manuka (or similar) honey to ORS for ulcer-healing benefits, not to mention tastiness.

Do NOT take aspirin if there is any risk that you could be exposed to a hemorrhagic fever, as the extra blood-thinning effect can be fatal. This goes for willow bark preparations (and no doubt many prescription meds) too. They advise to take paracetamol (acetaminophen for you Americans ;) ) instead - not sure what a herbal equivalent would be?

And alcohol is probably a horrible idea too, for non-topical use anyway...

For liver protection (and regeneration!) how about milk thistle, I'd have to look it up but I believe it's pretty safe - i.e. low toxicity, few interactions.

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Good point on the aspirin and booze, same for fish and flax oils- many people use them for hyperlipidemia, etc. but they thin blood too.

I'm not sure what non-opioid herbal replacement to aspirin/paracetmol would be good. Medicinal grade yellow chrysanthemum is used for fevery headaches in the early stage of upper respiratory infection. Its also said prolonged use will help slow greying of hair, if you want some optimism for when lying there with ebola :P

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Olive leaf extract can work as an antiviral effective to the level of some of the anti-HIV anti-virals.
Can find the protocols for making at home and it's administration protocol.

A warning, it's insanely bitter. (I've made it to fight flu)

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Interesting, I'd only heard of it as a medicine for lowering blood pressure. I wonder if the hypotensive effect would need to be watched in antiviral doses.

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Thistle especially milk thistle could be handy for liver and kidney repair and protection during this sickness and a close relative, bird thistle, grows rampart in a lot of places.

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Astralagus. Ginger. Garlic & ginger both have a blood thinning effect.

Colloidal Silver

Elder Berry

Green tea

Liquorice

Pau d Arco

St Johns Wort

Echinacea

Olive leaf extract

Oregano oil

Now I do not know by which method of action all of these work exactly,... but if a cocktail of these can help your chance of survival by x% I'd say it is worth it for you and the people you care about. If I have the time I will look into it more deeply later on.

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I bet Auxy is planning on making Ebola survival kits! I want one if it comes to my doorstep Auxin!! :D

Now I am well aware that the list I added above might not be the exotic plants we would expect from come up in our plant savvy SAB community.

Off the top of my head I am thinking in the direction of the incense plants.

http://theresanoilforthat.blogspot.com/2012/02/frankincense-and-cancer.html%C2'> < thaadaaaa! haha,.. that is my contribution of an exotic an easy to obtain herbal antiviral ... :wink:

SO yes "Frankincense!"

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not sure if its been mentioned but high water loss is an issue and intravenous is probably the best way to replace it .....

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Astralagus.

Colloidal Silver

Olive leaf extract

I had been thinking astragalus at least for pre-exposure up into onset of serious symptoms, as its a immune adaptogen and interferon inducent.

Withania would likely be on that list too. I like the idea of medicines and techniques to balance and strengthen the immune system before getting sick. For our older members I recently read a couple studies on prolonged fasting to 'rejuvinate' the immune system. Basically nothing but water for 3 days, when the system goes fully catabolic the body 'eats' old immune cells and when the subject eats food again the immune system is rebuilt from stem cells to more youthful cells in a more youthful ratio. (One trial tossed in chemo at the tail end of the fast and the peoples immune system rebounded faster that unfasted controls). Massage is a good way to keep lymph circulating if you cant go out for walks/runs/rides. Anyway..

I have yet to see a tree that grows colloidal silver, if you have seeds let me know ;)

Olive leaf extract might get dangerous quick once bleeding started, as its hypotensive.

Off the top of my head I am thinking in the direction of the incense plants.

< thaadaaaa! haha,.. that is my contribution of an exotic an easy to obtain herbal antiviral ... :wink:

SO yes "Frankincense!"

When you said incense my first thought was esphand. Its a classic and cheap antiviral/antimicrobial/antiprotozoal/insecticide fumigant.

Lately over here sandstorms have been giving people valley fever, a nasty fungal lung infection that kills old people. Esphand would be the blatantly obvious countermeasure in persia but the CDC wont even consider it because its 'alternative'. Their helpful solution is "hope you dont die".

So yeah, if ebola comes here visitors will be met by a wall of esphand smoke to partially sterilize all their sweat droplets.

not sure if its been mentioned but high water loss is an issue and intravenous is probably the best way to replace it .....

The best way, but good luck with doing that safely when the hospitals are death traps and no IV drip bags are for sale.

ORT is the safest low tech way. Most stable too. Thats why its the standard in cholera epidemics even if IV is "best".

gyah, quotes are harder to edit these days, lol

Edited by Auxin
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If IV isnt available it would be vastly better than nothing at all, thats for sure.

And its something people can piece together far in advance. Salt, imitation salt, baking soda, and glucose or corn syrup at the simplest.

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If IV isnt available it would be vastly better than nothing at all, thats for sure.

And its something people can piece together far in advance. Salt, imitation salt, baking soda, and glucose or corn syrup at the simplest.

I was told once (and I believe the story :))that you can use the contents of an in mature coconut (skin still fleshy and glossy and not dried up) as for the purpose on an IV. for this application one uses a coconut which liquid is still clear and not milky.

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If IV isnt available it would be vastly better than nothing at all, thats for sure.

And its something people can piece together far in advance. Salt, imitation salt, baking soda, and glucose or corn syrup at the simplest.

sorry ..what are these for "Salt, imitation salt, baking soda, and glucose or corn syrup"?

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ORT, oral rehydration therapy. The above in the correct proportions makes a effective rehydration beverage that can radically reduce death rate from fluid loss conditions as severe as cholera. There are other recipes, of course, the above is just the ingredients for the WHO's recommended baseline formulation. The next step up includes citric acid or citrate.

*gets recipe*

WHO/UNICEF's formula is 2.6 grams (0.092 oz) salt (NaCl), 2.9 grams (0.10 oz) trisodium citrate dihydrate, 1.5 grams (0.053 oz) KCl, 13.5 grams (0.48 oz) anhydrous glucose per litre of fluid.

A basic oral rehydration therapy solution is composed of salt, sugar, and water in solution, made using a standard ratio and is appropriate for use in situations when ORS must be prepared without the standard ingredients.[12][13]

30 ml sugar : 2.5 ml salt : 1 litre fluid
6 teaspoons sugar : 0.5 teaspoon salt : 1 quart fluid (approx. 1 litre)

Hmm, seems bicarbonate inclusion is inadvisibe if theres vomiting.

Its good to avoid table sugar if glucose or corn syrup is available.

The osmotic pressure is important. When crapping out buckets and bleeding from the eyes and trying to formulate ORT from available materials you'll understand what your algebra teacher meant when she said you'll need an easy proficiency in basic math one day :wink:

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what about anal rehydration? If anyone can be arsed x].... :innocent_n: buttt....I guess that would be down to an ART

I'm sure I saw that watching bear grylls

... found it

i wonder how beneficial the bird shit in it was ... im sure coconut water would feel nicer

my first thoughts were asphand and trichocereus huasca ...

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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I was told once (and I believe the story :))that you can use the contents of an in mature coconut (skin still fleshy and glossy and not dried up) as for the purpose on an IV. for this application one uses a coconut which liquid is still clear and not milky.

It seems this is true. See this paper for a description of how it was done - seems (roughly-filtered) fresh from the coconut was the best way they found. From another paper:

Compared to oral rehydration fluids known to be effective in cholera, coconut water was found to have adequate potassium and glucose content, however was relatively deficient in sodium, chloride and bicarbonate. The addition of table salt to the coconut water is suggested to compensate for the sodium and chloride deficiency. In areas of the world where coconuts are plentiful, the advantages of sterility, availability and acceptability make coconut water theoretically feasible for the oral rehydration of patients with severe gastroenteritis when conventional fluids are unavailable.

It looks like you can buy IV lines and drip bags off ebay, but this might be one of those "just provide us with your certification number and ABN and we will be happy to oblige" kind of deals? And I think setting up IV lines is way beyond most people even without sweating blood.

Auxin, how about adding an antiemetic (say ginger) to ORS if the patient is vomiting? (but not bleeding, if its blood-thinning thing is significant)

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That might work, ginger tea is popular with asians in my town for that.

I've always preferred crystalized ginger because it hits so much faster.

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I've sometimes thought that some forms of ginger (like crystalised ginger) could partially have their effect because some is absorbed sublingually. Couldn't find much info, but there was this patent suggesting it might be effective by this ROA.

Leaving Bear Grylls aside (can we please just do that anyway?) an enema to rehydrate is a really good idea. This link has some hints, basically that a simple sugar-salt-water mix in an enema bag from the local chemist (or, as this adventure-man site suggests, you could also use a Camelbak-type thing if you were caught out hiking or something) can be used as an alternative to a hospital trip for IV fluids. As an added bonus, it doesn't involve sticking needles into someone who has ebola!

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Seems to be getting worse in the latest news.

I.V. materials - HAZMAT suits,.... food, and meds....... what else??? (mozzie nets - spray bottles etc etc) some preparedness is a good idea once it really starts jumping off the continent. everyone needs to asses this for themselves of course,.... you should at least know where to buy the stuff needed, so that it when it gets real you do not have to deal with people that are in panic mode.

#1 do your best not to contract it to begin with.

#2 if you do or fam member / loved one > plan of action

maybe time to start compiling a printable list of things needed. right now we do not know how bad this is going to get. but would bet nice if we can just print it and stick it on the fridge if needed.

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Wasn't Gatorade at first developed at first as an ORT in the 60's....? Gatorade has the sugars , sodium and the electrolytes.

I'm buying stock soon! ;-)

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What about B. caapi as an anti-viral? Though effective doses may contribute to vomiting.

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