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The Corroboree
Meditator

Antioxidants for plants?

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Ok so I have this bottle of water with 400 mg of pure EGCG (Antioxidant in green tea).

EGCG is extremely bitter and I AM NOT going to drink that.. it's almost as bad as Ayahuasca.

Anyway I was wondering how it would affect a plant? I'm guessing oxidative damage can happen within plant cells as well. But would giving a plant small doses of antioxidants actually be beneficial to it? Even marginally?

There is an obvious and easy way to test this.. Grow two plants and start giving one plant an antioxidant molecule in decent amounts and watch their growth and overall health for a length of time and accessing the effect on the antioxidant treated plant. But I cant find this or any test on plants of this kind.

So anyone have any ideas? Green tea plants seem to always have a really health look to them. Ive never grown green tea but i have looked at pictures before. Maybe the EGCG and various antioxidants plays a role?

Any thoughts? Scientifically based or not? Experience even?

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there's all kinds of mixed results..positive/negative re-Antioxidants.

A bit of stress ros can actually be beneficial to animal cells, as it signals a cellular clean up response.

I have no idea how plant cells will react, but interested to follow your results.

personally I feel a diet rich in naturally acquired antioxidants ie fresh fruit/veg/nuts etc is beneficial in the long run.

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humans who lead a healthy diet/lifestyle need no antioxidants (don't get fooled by the multibillion dollar "natural therapy" industry). i think if you keep your plants healthy, disease and pest free not root bound appropriate sun and nutrients you wouldn't need anything like antioxidants for them. but i was curious so googoled it and found:

Reactive oxygen species (ROS) are produced in plants as byproducts during many metabolic reactions, such as photosynthesis and respiration. Oxidative stress occurs when there is a serious imbalance between the production of ROS and antioxidant defense. Generation of ROS causes rapid cell damage by triggering a chain reaction. Cells have evolved an elaborate system of enzymatic and nonenzymatic antioxidants which help to scavenge these indigenously generated ROS. Various enzymes involved in ROS-scavenging have been manipulated, over expressed or downregulated to add to the present knowledge and understanding the role of the antioxidant systems. The present article reviews the manipulation of enzymatic and nonenzymatic antioxidants in plants to enhance the environmental stress tolerance and also throws light on ROS and redox signaling, calcium signaling, and ABA signaling.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20214435

i have no idea what any of that means mind you

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humans who lead a healthy diet/lifestyle need no antioxidants

do you mean they need no antioxidant supplements?

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yes

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Not trying to be a dick but do you have any links or references bot6? I only ask because I am honestly interested. I agree that the natural suplement business is a scam like most everything marketed to consumers.

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Not trying to be a dick but do you have any links or references bot6?

to what exactly?

but in practice why does someone who eats a diet rich in fresh fruit and vegetables need to take any supplements?

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To which types of diets will cancel the need of supplementing with anti oxidants and any research to back them. Although I am assuming it can be infered from common sense. But if anyone has put some research into it and has published a paper I'd like to read it so I can shove it in my idiot sisters face haha. She buys into all that supplement propaganda.

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humans who lead a healthy diet/lifestyle need no antioxidants (don't get fooled by the multibillion dollar "natural therapy" industry). i think if you keep your plants healthy, disease and pest free not root bound appropriate sun and nutrients you wouldn't need anything like antioxidants for them. but i was curious so googoled it and found:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20214435

i have no idea what any of that means mind you

Thanks for that bot. I didnt even know what a ROS was or even that it was a thing before you posted that. Looks like antioxidants do play a role in plants.

But saying if you lead a healthy lifestyle you would not need antioxidants is a bit of a silly thing to say. Antioxidants rich foods are part of a healthy diet.

More accurately, if we ate less shitty unhealthy food that causes our bodies more oxidative stress (foods high in bad fats and alcohol for example) we wouldn't need as many antioxidants.

Antioxidants are needed I think.. Oxygen is extremely reactive and our bodies have to deal with it with some kind of protection. Our bodies (and plants) produce mass of a specific antioxidant called glutathione if you weren't aware. When our bodies become chronically depleted of glutathione numerous maladies usually occur. Thats why i think we need them. Although this is one specific antioxidant that probably (and seemingly) plays more roles than just antioxidant.

Edit: Oh I see now you were reffering to supplementing antioxidants..

Edited by Meditator

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I could try this out with my EGCG water I guess.. I just ran out of the EGCG pills I had though.. I could add 50 mg of EGCG every other day though to one plant lol. Thats only 8 days..

Nevermind the results would probably be soo marginal it wouldnt even matter

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but in practice why does someone who eats a diet rich in fresh fruit and vegetables need to take any supplements?

Well, in practice, for one, if their preferred method of preparing the vegetables involves cooking/microwaving/boiling the shiz out of them,

& for two

where they source their fruit & veges from.

quote "Contrary to the recent paper, Brandt’s analysis found that organic produce tended to provide significantly more vitamin C and “secondary metabolites.” Secondary metabolites, or bioactive compounds that aren’t directly involved in the plant’s growth, maturation, or reproduction, include the antioxidant compounds – the polyphenols, the flavonoids, and all the other phytonutrients".

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but are you trying to achieve a statistically optimal nutrient level or are you trying to live an active healthy life?

i think if you're trying to live your life according to some bell curve you saw in a science journal then you're taking the wrong approach to life (jmooc).

but i'll get on the science business tomorrow. it doesn't need to be said that i made it all up (what i wrote) but ima look into it.

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I am just trying to improve my diet over all. I only eat read meat once a month and eat fruits and veggies daily. But I still eat to much bread and protein. I mostly eat chicken but I should probably eat less chicken and more fish. This past year I have not been exercising as much as previous year. I used to be am avid biker but for some reason just lost my drive. So I guess a diet which would help boost my energy levels and help drop some unnecessary fat would be ideal.

Sorry for going off topic. I am looking into adding anti oxidants to plants to see if I can find any info to contribute.

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yeah, i get what you're saying but really, if you feel ok with your life then why do you need some statistics to tell you to change?

if you don't feel ok with your life then why do you need some statistics to tell you to change?

do you know what i'm saying?

I mostly eat chicken but I should probably eat less chicken and more fish

should you? do you need a science journal to tell you this? if you feel within yourself "i need to eat more fish" then eat more fish. why do you need someone to tell you what to do? if you eat more fish and you feel no different then did you need to eat more fish? who knows, but did you lose anything? probably not. but if you live your life according to what scientists sitting in a lab testing isolated compounds on mice say is "optimal" then is this being human? i don't think so.

*disclaimer: i exercise regularly am a vegetarian eat a probably %50 ok diet and am a functioning alcoholic. i feel like shit some days but other days i feel great.

Edited by bot6

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I do not need statistics to decide how to eat. But I do enjoy reading them because they go in depth on the pathways through which nutrients are absorbed and and in which organ. Also how to maximize nutrient absorbsion and things like that. It's more of my overall interest in science really which is why I asked for research.

My diet is based on self experimentation and advice from others. Chicken leaves me feeling lighter than red meat but fish over all leaves me feeling the lightest. This is why I know I should try to add more fish and less chicken. I have been slowly eating less animal protein which has been having positive effects for me. Overall I have a pretty good idea of what I am doing but you seemed to have a greater grasp than I which is why I asked for info. I know any tone I am infering from your post is my own creation but I feel I have annoyed you. If I have I apologise. My only intention was to get some advice.

Edited by someone

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so long as the fruit and veg isn't deficient in any way , like say for example if farmers could no longer be arsed to rotate crops/replenish the land

then a need for suppliments/growing all of your own ......may arise?

and euro (white meated) chicken isnt even the same bird over here nowdays , in fact , it probably isnt even food !...

theyre starting to do the same to ducks too.(or at least, only now it's coming out).. and anything the supermarkets touch that they can monopolise farm-wise

I think some tea would be really good for plants , especially chamomile

I think vinegar looks good too , i saw a post where zelly gave a tip he picked up on putting 2 tablespoons of white vinegar per gallon

of watering juice, would be assuming a us gallon too

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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Bot.. Someone... STOP ARGUING ON MY DAMN THREAD! I hate when threads become off topic or turn into pointless arguments.. And especially when they become BOTH O_O take it to chat if it's that big of a deal..

And if you ask me.. Taking antioxidants for health is a good idea. Only because I believe that most antioxidants play more than one role pharmacologically. For example EGCG inhibits enzymes and interacts with bodily CB (Cannabanoid) receptors which seems to explain the numerous benefits beyond free radical protection. Like EGCG does effectively help with chronic fatigue and general fatigue in my experience. AND THIS IS PURE EGCG.. NOT GREEN TEA EXTRACT. DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT ARGUING IT WAS FROM CAFFEINE. That would really shit me... You wouldnt like me when I get shitty.

Anyway.. Anyone else have anything worth adding?

Edited by Meditator

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here's something i just found

The Bottom Line on Antioxidants and Disease Prevention

Free radicals contribute to chronic diseases from cancer to heart disease and Alzheimer’s disease to vision loss. This doesn’t automatically mean that substances with antioxidant properties will fix the problem, especially not when they are taken out of their natural context. The studies so far are inconclusive, but generally don’t provide strong evidence that antioxidant supplements have a substantial impact on disease. But keep in mind that most of the trials conducted up to now have had fundamental limitations due to their relatively short duration and having been conducted in persons with existing disease. That a benefit of beta-carotene on cognitive function was seen in the Physicians’ Health Follow-up Study only after 18 years of follow-up is sobering, since no other trial has continued for so long. At the same time, abundant evidence suggests that eating whole fruits, vegetables, and whole grains—all rich in networks of antioxidants and their helper molecules—provides protection against many of these scourges of aging.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/antioxidants/

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so long as the fruit and veg isn't deficient in any way , like say for example if farmers could no longer be arsed to rotate crops/replenish the land

then a need for suppliments/growing all of your own ......may arise?

and euro (white meated) chicken isnt even the same bird over here nowdays , in fact , it probably isnt even food !...

theyre starting to do the same to ducks too.(or at least, only now it's coming out).. and anything the supermarkets touch that they can monopolise farm-wise

I think some tea would be really good for plants , especially chamomile

I think vinegar looks good too , i saw a post where zelly gave a tip he picked up on putting 2 tablespoons of white vinegar per gallon

of watering juice, would be assuming a us gallon too

off topic.......feedlot meat is just sad.........and full of endocrine disrupting hormones...so guys if you want your hair to grow back and to grow tits, and fuck your immune and digestive systems with antibiotics.then eat factory chicken.......sadly our oceans aren't much better..try free range eggs...preferably from your own hens...sorry Med.

so back on topic..........so why would you give vinegar to plants? and is that just acid loving plants? apply to the roots or leaf/stem?

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EGCG is an astringent tannic substance, such critters have an allelopathic effect in some plants and could damage tissues in high quantities.

Tho some phenolics in low quantities (µM range) can induce a beneficial protective stress response, salicylic acid for example.

I'd say if you test it have a control group, a mM range group, and a µM range group.

Mix up the solutions fresh for each dosing especially if your water is basic.

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