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Dreamwalker.

Simple method for Rapid intra/interspecific hybridisation via chromosomal polyploidy

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"plantlets generated from the graft junction contained the genetic information of both species."

http://phys.org/news/2014-06-species-sex.html

Note; has been edited a few times. hopefully improving the accuracy, feel free to comment and/or improve it further.

Crude summary of Method

A loph x trich interspecific hybrid is used as an example.

1) graft loph onto a trich, wait a few months, or take a biopsy from the union/joint of a mature craft.

2) carefully remove a few plant cells from the junction of the graft.

3) use tissue culture tec. to grow these cells into plantlets.

4) a % of these planlets will contain chromosomes from both the trich and the loph, Polyploidy.

5) these plantlets will not be a trich or a loph, you have created and new and unique species, a triloph.

6) each triloph will be unique, dependent on the expression profile of the genes it combines.

This simple tec has been accessible to you all along, since the first gardener 1000 of years ago figured out how to graft. Of course its only been in the last 100 years that we figured out tissue culture tec, And only since the researcher in the last few months experimented with the cells from the graft union and realised that chromesome transfer occurs in this limited area, not the scion, not the rootstock, but the thin veil of cells of the boundary union between the 2.

If you can graft 2 plants together, you can in theory create such hybrids.

Additionally the hybrid plantlets can be grafted thereby combining the genomes of additional species.

The 2 main advantages are instant hybridisation, (months rather than years), and the (multi) hybridising of distantly related plants.

Edited by Dreamwalker
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Interesting read... Does this mean we'll be able to produce chimeras on purpose?

Edited by katu
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theres "ortegopuntia" and a few others.

as for loph/tricho probably not but anythings possible.

ive read somewhere that a tomato plant was grafted to a brugmansia stock and while the fruit looked normal the fruit contained some of the alcaloids from the stock.

if i had the ability ide cross loph with the bamboo that grows 2 meters per day.

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Does anyone have good sources for information on tissue cultures. Both my colleague and I have failed on all our attempts.

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This is pretty awesome. But technically chimeras aren't genetically modified. They are just bodies with two different species' tissues in them. No genetic intermingling.

So with that being said would these be different than chimeras? Actually some kind of hybrid...

This paper I'm posting goes into the genetics of chimeras a little bit.

Gorelick (2004) Bradleya 22; 9-14 (scanned).PDF

Gorelick (2004) Bradleya 22; 9-14 (scanned).PDF

Gorelick (2004) Bradleya 22; 9-14 (scanned).PDF

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Yes, this is actual hybridization.

Read about the Triangle of U some time to see how the sexual equivalent of this type of crossing gave us mustard greens and rutabagas.

I suspect the grafting & cell culture tactic would be difficult to do in ones kitchen. Even if the in vitro work was perfected you'd still need to grow hundreds or a thousand cacti to find the gem.

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Yes, this is actual hybridization.

Read about the Triangle of U some time to see how the sexual equivalent of this type of crossing gave us mustard greens and rutabagas.

I suspect the grafting & cell culture tactic would be difficult to do in ones kitchen. Even if the in vitro work was perfected you'd still need to grow hundreds or a thousand cacti to find the gem.

Shoot, i just personally started my journey into Micro propagating and it has been a lot of reading so far and looking at pictures.

I think someone young like myself who still has hopefully 50 more years at least of working in the cactus field this would be yet another project along with all the others. If im already growing ariocarpus, aztekium, and many other slow growers from seed than i might as well use the time im weighting on them to becomes adults to work on other projects/

Just because it is hard or will take a long time does not mean we should not try. Hell when most of us first started growing cacti and found out it took a couple years for them to even look much like cacti when grown from seeds. Now the germination time from seed to a foot tall does not seem like a lot of time to most of you, still a lot to me, so if i have the space and know how micro propagation, Chimeras, and whatever other experiments i will do if i can

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Just because it is hard or will take a long time does not mean we should not try.

I agree completely.

Hell, something being hard can be a reason to try! Its fun to achieve the difficult.

...I just think its beneficial to know going in when something will be difficult.

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not missing the point. its pretty far fetched if you ask me. i highly doubt chimeras occourin from this type of amature tis cult. sure you may get a freek doing this but at the root of genetics and the behaviour of such to formulate r.n.a. this method is about as good as putting butter on bread to make it easier to swallow. by all means do it. if a freak occours then thats fantastic and super cool. so cool in fact im suprized in all its simplicity it hasnt been done successfully numerous times to create super plants that cater for real world problems.

im not saying its not possible. i just think theres sfa chance you will get anything other than a typical plant or a blob of plant mess that simply is so fucked up its rna omits organs required to survive.

overnout.

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. (although I did like the idea of thc strawberry, maybe if we feed the cow weed its cream will be a real delight.

makes sence. allegedly if humans are fed pineapple juice there cream is a delight.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_organism

Is it a chimera ? Considering the definition below, I would say NO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_%28plant%29#Plants

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_%28biology%29

  1. "

So consider EG's project "The colored San Pedro Flower Project "

Probably boarder line intra-specific hybrid, whereas a loph x trich would be a interspecific hybrid.

Genome sequencing is becoming very cheap, I suspect over the next decade many cacti genomes will be sequence and considerable renaming/reclassification of the family members will occur.

I'm 99% certain I have successfully crossed trich p. with cereus p.. The seed is viable, but I wonder how close the tribe or genus may be.

As I'm sure most members here are aware there is considerably hybridisation of the cacti family occurring internationally in all kinds of directions, its commercially very intense in the development of edible fruits (note all cacti fruit are edible), floral, form and what ever reasons people chose to create kickass trich hybrids. :innocent_n: .

Considering EG's project "The colored San Pedro Flower Project ", obviously time is an issue.(as with all hybrisation).So some of us will grow the seed either to flowering maturity 5 - 7 years? (some may speed the process up by standard grafting, and/or estrogen treatment. Then attempts will be made to cross pollen with a tall growing trich, and then wait another 5 - 15 years for x number of seedlings to flower, in the hope of creating something very special, a tall rainbow coloured flowering trich.

Some of the older members may well be dead by this time. :)

So personally I feel any opportunity to speed up the hybridisation process should be embraced.

Such as using and developing the process below.

"plantlets generated from the graft junction contained the genetic information of both species."

http://phys.org/news...pecies-sex.html

I have no idea how many cells in that thin veil at the graft union/junction will contain the chromosomes of both the scion and root stock, at this stage I suspect even the researcher doesn't have that information. I have only read the article not the research paper. That said in traditional hybridisation, ever seed is going to have a unique genetic profile, I have 500 seedlings of cereus x cereus monstrose donated as seeds to me by fellow member, ideally I should grow each one of them at least until each seedling expresses it phenotype (form). That would be the same using tissue culture tec, you would want to raise as many plantlets as possible, ideally sourced from individual cells collected by taking a biopsy from the craft union.(so the graft can remain intact).

I am only just becoming competent in grafting cacti, tissue culture tec. is a natural progression/evolution in cacti/plant propagation and I feel just as exciting, with obvious enormous potential for breeding some really amazing plants.

There's heaps of educational vids on the tec.available via u tube etc

Entry level is incredibly basic, kids could do it, eg very small sterilised cuttings of easy to propagate plants, placed in a sterile jar/test-tube on agar with applicable growth nutrients. Practise there and move on to using microscopic tec. isolating single cells.Most people here enjoy a challenge and becoming competent at every higher levels of propagation tec. Microscope cameras that connect to your computer are really cheap now, I saw some going for ~$20 - $60 in an import store, and plans are available here and other sites for converting cell phone camera's.

Nature creates new species in this way, at least in theory which is a challenge to popular dogma/theories of species development, such as population isolation, I suspect nature has many recipes/tec to create new species.

Edited by Dreamwalker.
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Does this mean we'll be able to produce chimeras on purpose?

yep, if what the Original Article is true.....

which would explain the increase in chimeras nowadays...

seen that ariocacrpus/trichocereus chimeras?

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Based on another article that I've read on micrografting and tissue cultures it does create chimera as mutant pointed out; successful growth of the tissues was around 20% in that article.

Chimeras that we see photos of are most likely not formed using tissue cultures but by grafting countless numbers of cacti and having a random chimera appear. There are certain species of cacti that are more prone to creating chimera; ariocarpus and echinopsis being two favorable candidates.

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Very cool, marking this thread for later :)

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