Drug tests if you're on the dole

[CLICKHEREx]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/drug-tests-if-youre-on-the-dole/story-e6frg6n6-1226938400218


Samantha Maiden
The Sunday Telegraph
June 01, 2014 12:00AM

Bernardi: People need to be more self-reliant

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Liberal senator Cory Bernardi defends the Federal Budget's cuts to welfare when he goes head to head with Political Editor Tory Shepherd.


DRUG testing for the unemployed and the suspension of payments to people with outstanding arrest warrants are two options to be debated in a major overhaul of welfare.

The Abbott Government has confirmed it is looking closely at New Zealand’s welfare system, which includes a hardline approach to drug use.

The New Zealand model strips welfare recipients of half their payments if they fail a job-required drug test or refuse to submit to one.

They are then given 30 days to get clean. Those who continue to use drugs or refuse to take a job that requires testing are required to pay back their welfare payments.

Social Services Minister Kevin Andrews last night said: “We won’t rule this in or out.”

But the testing has been attacked as a waste of money by critics in New Zealand with low rates of positive results.

Of the 8001 jobseekers sent for drug testing, only 22 had tested positive to drug use or had refused to take tests.

Mr Andrews yesterday cautioned it would be more difficult to introduce in Australia because it would require the support of the states.

“While Australia’s welfare system is different from New Zealand, its reforms provide a guide as to the government’s thinking on simplifying our welfare system,” he said.

The Abbott government has confirmed it is also looking closely at New Zealand’s “simpler, more coherent” system of streamlining payments.

“Australia’s welfare system is complex and expensive,” Mr Andrews said.

“This review will look at welfare reforms overseas, including New Zealand where they have simplified their welfare system by introducing five new payments that replaced eleven old payments.”
Welfare groups angry about budget cuts 1:14


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Welfare groups are upset that families, pensioners and youth are doing the work to repair the federal budget

The streamlined New Zealand payment system now includes a new Jobseeker Support payment for those actively seeking work, Sole Parent Support for single parents with children aged under 14 years, and Supported Living Payments for people significantly restricted by sickness, injury or disability.

A report by Patrick McClure into options for reforms to Australia’s welfare system will be released shortly.

“There are around 20 different payments (in Australia) that are topped up with around 50 different supplements, including Family Tax Benefits and Carer Allowance, costing taxpayers around $100 billion annually,” Mr Andrews said.

“To make this work requires more than 3500 pages of legislation and more than 640 pages of endnotes to administer the social security system.”

Labor’s Jenny Macklin said welfare simplification was code for more cuts.

“Tony Abbott needs to explain to low-income Australians — already reeling from the Budget — exactly what his next round of cuts will mean for them,” she said.

“This year’s Budget has already ripped billions of dollars out of the pockets of low-income Australians.

“It will leave millions of vulnerable people worse off.

“Yet the government is already looking to its next round of cuts.”

[Dreamwalker.]

I heard it takes 3 weeks for your blood to clear from can...

to test neg.

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

Imagine the cost of that? not just the testing but the structure to support the testing and flow through of results.

Although this government does seem hell bent on installing unsustainable, little pay off systems, i dont think it would ever happen.

PLus im sure all governments know that any country is only 3 meals away from revolution, if you takeaway the weed as well as the benefit payments that buy the food, thats a sure fire way to start riots and revolution i would think

[Godiam]

My opinion is that if you take away support for the less fortunate, then people will turn to crime to feed themselves and their families,

It is ridiculous to think that some unfortunate people that struggle through life will suddenly be able to support themselves without any assistance.

I would rather my taxes be spent on helping people, than billions of dollars going to waste on fighter jets, overseas study trips for the biggest tax payed bluggers in the country, ie: Politicians, etc.

People will continue to use drugs, no matter what, the clever way would be to look at drug law reform, rather than making someone who smokes a bit of pot in the evening a criminal, but there is no political mileage in thinking like that atm, rather Keep the public in fear of these terrible druggies, bikies, etc.

If the population is in fear, then they are easily controlled, that is what the assholes in power want.

OK, rant over....... for now

Cheers Godiam

[Strontium Dawg]

It would be nice if Abbott would copy some of New Zealand's better features like allowing salvia to be legal, and regulating synthetics, but no we just get the worst idea...

[ThunderIdeal]

like many people i can be quick to judge "dole bludgers" (although staying on the dole is almost as challenging as going to work, but nowhere near as rewarding). i even wouldn't mind, particularly with family benefits, if a portion of the coin was earmarked for essentials only. basically like most australians who pay tax or at least pay their own way, i want the dole to be easily accessible (it isn't) but not for people who just genuinely refuse to support themselves (whether they're persuing a personal dream which isn't profitable, or just persuing the path of least resistance, either way it's almost (is?) like stealing from a charity for struggling families. if contributing nothing of monetary value seems justified to you while you spend free money, i'd like to think that your persuits might at least contribute something good to the world (parenting, activism, research, community, something other than scheming, mooching, drugdealing or fantasising).

that said, if you don't have kids then i don't think it's anyones business how you spend your ''almost scraping by" allowance (or parents for that matter if they're providing adequately for the kids), and for all the drug tester knows you consumed drugs as a gift or produced them yourself, or maybe the drugs just made their way into your system.

i'm gonna say the situation with welfare is enormously the fault of our various governments' obsessions with population growth, to the point of offering instant cash rewards to any slave who can suspend their good judgement AND successfully breed. i might be extremely wrong and a cynical asshole but i get the impression you can use kids to not only legitemise your dole-collector status but also to collect much more realistic sums. if people see breeding as a form of revenue, then fucking pay them every time they don't have a baby, am i right?? so here's the worrying part, we all know the official line on population growth (more people = more money but never mention that the average person will become poorer while the country becomes bigger). that's all good, politicians, whatever, trying to breed more slaves for the factories so they can collect more bribes, but maybe they could have provided a scenario where sensible people decide they will be able to have children. instead the sensible people were left to their own devices, a dangling carrot was employed which they must have known would only entice the dumbest most naive young adults.

somebody tell me if i sound like a judgemental know-all opinionated windbag, because either i'm a cunt, or i'm partly right that brainless people are being encouraged to multiply because something is causing many successful people to decide against having kids.

for the record this is nothing against parents in the slightest, i'm against tricking poor young people into having babies, instead of providing some transparent incentive which successful maturing people might also go for.

Edited June 1, 2014 by ThunderIdeal

[-YT-]

Fuck yeah dude pop out a few kids and get yourself a new plasma n shit! or maybe a new rig for the burnout comps on sunday!

Obviously the proliferation of the brainless and incentivisation of such is of sound social and economic policy

[wert]

.

i can honestly see this government implementing this anti doping scheme for sure. they will justify it by saying it creates more jobs. ie for the testers and the required personel in dealing with those testing pos. gov is just tarded. not just abbott. the fucking lot of em, either side of the fence.

just a waiting game for the riots n revolution as prev mentioned i thinks.

finished now.

btw Godiam... those be 2nd hand fighter jets i think.

Edited June 2, 2014 by wert

[-YT-]

2nd hand and outdated those jets, arent they?

Sure no doubt they would love to drug test everybody although as mentioned the logistics itself would involve a lot of taxpayer money but yes it would create jobs... but the question is how many jobs, and what sort. false positives could also pose a problem or people just claiming so perhaps could clog up an already under manned & slow/tedious system. In the long term i wonder if it would push more people to substances like amphets which dont hang around in the system as long so might be seen as an easier way to get around the system whilst still getting high. More of a strain on social and health institutions which already are dealing with large amounts of people having issues with such substances whilst also dealing with funding cuts.

Not saying this would inevitably happen mostly just voicing thoughts on possible outcomes, but yeah guess we just have to wait and see which direction the gov will take if any. Did hear this morning on the radio someone i think from the greens in response saying that politicians should also be drug tested, with the recent ruling of both parties not to implement the independent corruption inquiry i thought good luck with that.

Edited June 2, 2014 by -YT-

[Francois le Danque]

Fuck yeah dude pop out a few kids and get yourself a new plasma n shit! or maybe a new rig for the burnout comps on sunday!

Obviously the proliferation of the brainless and incentivisation of such is of sound social and economic policy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy

[Francois le Danque]

As someone who has struggled to find stable employment for a number of years, i am deeply concerned about these recent developments. At the face they make sense; i agree people should have to pay their own way and any financial assistance rendered to them shouldn't be squandered on drugs.

However we have to remember that drug use is not an indicator, or necessarily a cause, of unemployment. Rather i believe that the depressing, degrading and marginalising environment many unemployed people find themselves in is conducive to problematic drug use. People in that position are made to feel useless, selfish and unmotivated, and the longer it goes on, the harder it is to fix. With both centrelink and employment agencies doing nothing but 'advising jobseekers to attain employment', it's easy to fall into the trap of using substances to escape, or just fill the time everyone else is off earning their bread.

This all indicates, to me, that the government needs to focus on actually addressing unemployment, not just punishing increasingly marginalised people. Surely having a job helps people control their drug use better than putting them on some sort of 'lazy druggo' register and taking away their meagre livelihoods...

Finally, i believe it's pertinent to note that unemployed people get about $100 more per fortnight than university students on a similar welfare payment. Less work for more money; not a good incentive to do the right thing.

[mr b.caapi]

If this is going to happen then i believe it should be a test for Meth only.....currently the bane of society, i cant stand it, ive been paying taxes for the past 25 years and to think some "bazza" from the outer suburbs is using my hard earned money to get himself a fix of "Crack Maaate" makes me sick. If Poor old "Bazza" is using it to get himself a baggie of sweet buds , then god bless him.

Edited June 2, 2014 by mr b.caapi

[Francois le Danque]

Caapi: totally fair, however don't you think it would be ultimately worse for society if Baz and co. were forced to resort to crime to support their addiction? I dare say most of these people aren't about to give up the gear just because they stop getting easy money.

[Francois le Danque]

"Crack Maaate" makes me sick.

...sweet buds , then god bless him.

DAT'S RACIST!

[-YT-]

Brawndo its got what plants crave!

[mr b.caapi]

Caapi: totally fair, however don't you think it would be ultimately worse for society if Baz and co. were forced to resort to crime to support their addiction? I dare say most of these people aren't about to give up the gear just because they stop getting easy money.

I hear what you are saying mate, but at the end of the day their weekly dole check is only going to cover probably 2 days of theyre addiction....they will be criming it up regardless. jeez i hate meth.

[Dreamwalker.]

What becomes apparent when you look at policy from the Uk, OZ, NZ is they are all the same. The timing of implementation may differ. God save the fucking Queen (she & co are the biggest dole bludging parasites on the planet).

Before NZ was raped and pillaged, our assetts sold for pennies on a $, a few decades ago now. After the assassination of our primeminister Norman Kirk by the US (the last socialist primeminister),( In Chile at the same time it was more obvious) then came the reagan and thacther tools, NZ got a short prick called muldoon, selling "think Big"= borrow heaps.

"'We don't know how fortunate we are to have that place
We don't know how propitious are the circumstances Frederick'
So if things are looking really bad and you're thinking of givin' it away
Remember New Zealand's a cracker and I reckon come what may
If things get appallingly bad and we all get atrociously poor
If we stand in the queue with our hats on we can borrow a few million more
We don't know how lucky we are, mate"

Fred Dagg defected to OZ.

NZ is still being gang banged,

Recognize the patten dept them up screw them out.Greece Ireland Ukraine, get the picture. The slaves Taxes! The poor on benefits get peanuts,($200 here) your taxes are paying off the massive interest rates for all those loans to the corp's banksters, arms dealers for that eternal war against the innocent, the media labels as terrorist. We are all being played big time.You can't have the slaves smoking weed, makes them lazy, they will be calling in sickies all the time, going surfing, humm enjoying the blessing that is life. .

NZ before the big rape was an averaged class sociality, The lawers earned twice the income of a tradesman, now days the tradesman will pay a weeks income for 1 hour of a lawers time. So how come their life is worth so much more than the working class slave?

Back then you could get a govt 1% loan to buy a house/cow shed.

Back then there was 3% unemployed, and the 3% really weren't worth employing, many of them had public/govt jobs like the post office or council workers. Its been over 10% unemployed ever since, gotta have the slaves scared of losing their jobs, They fiddle the stats now.

After the big rape they no longer published the suicide rates, made it illegal, Lives were destroyed, culture was destroyed.

Kiwi is a 4 letter word, the doors were thrown open to migrants who were proud to be kiwi after 5 fucking minutes of being here.

What is with immigrants, why are they so ashamed of where they were born? Be proud of your ancestry its your family after all.

Planes just poured them in like a fucking flood, Real Kiwi's sailed around the cape, 12 months in a stinking barge, who stole it from the earlier kiwis who came in canoes, who stole it from the even earlier kiiwi's who all got eaten by the 2nd wave.

An aged mate, a fitter & turner told me 80% of job applicants to his firm tested positive for can. of course the alcoholic was fucking prejudice, ok to have a hang over on a dangerous job but you can't be a little dazed from last nights joint. Them are the 70 odd % that keep fucking voting for the 2 party con, good cop/bad cop routine, just the corp owned media playing them all for suckers.

The 70% are the problem!

God we were/are naive.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DJv_DfMZ7jU

Edited February 24, 2015 by Dreamwalker.

[Darklight]

 

This all indicates, to me, that the government needs to focus on actually addressing unemployment, not just punishing increasingly marginalised people. Surely having a job helps people control their drug use better than putting them on some sort of 'lazy druggo' register and taking away their meagre livelihoods...

I often wonder how much it costs to keep whipping the unemployed and ill, whether it's economically viable for the govt to spend so much on social securitycompliance, given the extremely complex nature of the compliance levels and the small amount of money in benefits that get paid. In terms of every dole $ spent, how much is spent in admin and regulation?

$250 a week for a single person is fuckall. There aren't enough jobs to go around. If someone wants to skive off and leave a higher paying job open for a productive person cos they can live on $250 then that's fine with me. Families- not so much, because it is easier to get close to the minimum wage if you have a partner and a couple of kids. And whoever thought up that stupid baby bonus needs a kick in the crotch, apparently it really didn't have much affect on the birth rate overall anyhow

Every time the govt of the day whips up a media frenzy on 'dole bludgers' I start checking around me to see what it is the govt is hiding. It's a really old piss poor ploy. Right now they're hiding a lot. We can start with the $90 million Tony Abbott is proud to be spending checking for a plane and making unscientific announcements claiming he's located it when they technology says it's impossible. I have no idea why this hasn't been trumpeted as an example of gross incompetence

[wert]

the old 3 cup & 3 balls trick.

puts 100 billion under cup no 1, revolves the cups around simply while you watch closely... then asks " witch cup is the 100 billion under". you point to the original cup confidently. " nope not under this cup, pick another... nope not under there either". finally the 3rd cup is lifted to reveal no 100 billion either. you could scratch your head if you want but most know the 100 bil is in the pricks pocket!

[-YT-]

definitely not enough jobs especially for people in remote areas

It seems like they cycle through their retarded memes dole buldgers and refugees being the clear favorites i suppose it ignites some sort of fear or moral indignation within those that buy it. Children overboard, influx of refugees, the intervention and recent budget crisis have/were proven too all be politcal machinations for the sake of swaying public opinion with essentially non issues.

In regards to revolution whilst it is an exciting concept the reality more often than not is not a very nice one usually involving mass violence & suffering with the outcome usually becoming the opposite of its original intentions. A notable exception perhaps is what happened in Iceland although there was some violence would seem it was instigated by the police, pepper spray, firing tear gas, scuffles etc no one was ever shot at with real bullets or killed. Great example of how a grassroots groundswell can change things with relatively little violence.

Going make a fairly big assumption here hahah and assume most people would generally agree democracy is a good thing and for the most part it works. It certainly isnt perfect but one shouldnt confuse democracy and what politics has evolved into today

[Dreamwalker.]

If the work hour was seen as a resource, and distributed equally amongst the workers of a nation, the dole would no longer be required.

I wonder how many would be willing to drop to a 30 hour week .

Revolutions suck! The only successful one I'm aware of was in France, look at how the poor Egyptians have been screwed over, all those good people murdered.

Voting might work if the 70 % chose alternatives to the 2 party con, assuming our voting system is for real.

Obviously the US voting system is rigged.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Dreamwalker

[Francois le Danque]

I think true democracy can only exist once 'direct democracy' is implemented. All contentious issues should be decided by the people, not the people they may or may not have voted for. I think the best system would involve taking a short quiz to prove you actually understand the facts around the issue,

e.g. How many people arrive in Australia by boat per year? A: 100. B: 1000. C:10000. D: 100000.

If you prove you know about the issue, then you should get to exert your opinion to sway the national outcome. If you are too stupid to base your opinion on evidence or too lazy to vote, then you should have no right to complain. Under the present system you are forced to vote for some stranger, then they just do whatever they want. People power?

In Estonia they have a form of this system already: when there is a referendum or election, you just insert your ID into your computer and vote instantly.

However all this being said i can't see the majority voting against the drug testing idea...

[Dreamwalker.]

I think true democracy can only exist once 'direct democracy' is implemented. All contentious issues should be decided by the people, not the people they may or may not have voted for. I think the best system would involve taking a short quiz to prove you actually understand the facts around the issue,

e.g. How many people arrive in Australia by boat per year? A: 100. B: 1000. C:10000. D: 100000.

If you prove you know about the issue, then you should get to exert your opinion to sway the national outcome. If you are too stupid to base your opinion on evidence or too lazy to vote, then you should have no right to complain. Under the present system you are forced to vote for some stranger, then they just do whatever they want. People power?

In Estonia they have a form of this system already: when there is a referendum or election, you just insert your ID into your computer and vote instantly.

However all this being said i can't see the majority voting against the drug testing idea...

Totally agree, I've suggested this a couple of times here before with little to no response, Most of the world has phones or net access, we should be able to just pick it up, punch in our pin and vote on the issues that concern us. As simple as internet banking. We should all be MP's. Our present system is utterly Victorian and utterly abused by the elites. Media would need to be accountable and liable for presenting false or manipulative info. A firm constitution would be needed to protect human rights. The masses would be responsible for their own errors and would soon learn to correct their ways. War and poverty will be assigned to the dark ages, which is how this period of history would be viewed.

It will of course never happen. Those in power never give it away.

[DiscoStu]

[C_T]

30hrs is heaps tbh, and a productive 30 compared to a lazy 40 or 50 is way better all round.

alot of people over estimate their hours, i hear 70's and 80's thrown around, do i believe it? well how productive was it? nowhere near a 30x2... unless they got a helping hand...

edit: i was living off 24hrs a week, night work but, only small bonus after hours, not like you'd think. and full rent, living solo, all bills. less hours is more tbh!

Edited June 5, 2014 by C_T