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magical9

Zircon6 ( cactus_kate_trichocereus ) strikes again!

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Now when I see the prices on ebay, I kinda wish I bought one of these at the gardening fair a few months ago.

post-13452-0-84787200-1400786179_thumb.j

Both were 35 Euro, around 4 ft tall, the pachanoi on the right was a bit bigger. But they were too big for me, if they were smaller I would have bought at least one, they were really good looking plants. Some of the bluest Trichs I've seen!

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i have checked the USA version. i check it weekly for ariocarpus, aztekium, and trichocereus. Never have a found a cactus like this for sale.

i also cant order this from Germany as customs wont allow it. Tried it before and they took it.

I have tried ebay time and time again but with very little luck

Edit: it says that that cactus is a pachanoi by the way, not a peruvian torch.

Edited by BillyThKid

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i have checked the USA version. i check it weekly for ariocarpus, aztekium, and trichocereus. Never have a found a cactus like this for sale.

i also cant order this from Germany as customs wont allow it. Tried it before and they took it.

I have tried ebay time and time again but with very little luck

I have nearly 400 cactus now... the large portion of which has come from ebay. I have genetics such as ICAROS, various types of pachanoi, altmans monstrose pachanoi, 4 types of cuzcoensis, 4 types of bridgesii, scopulicola, lumberjack, juuls, SS02, etc etc Sure I havnt seen 2ft tall well grown rooted SS02 in a pot on ebay or a Scopulicola.. but generally you can find cuttings that require you to only stuff them into dirt and wait and then they have roots... thats all ive been doing. By the way i search "trichocereus" "bridgesii" "peruvianus" "pachanoi" on ebay.. .at least 5 times a day (HEH) and i still miss some really good deals. Maybe you arent searching frequent enough. I some how managed to miss an auction for a 2ft+ kimnach pachanoi, couldnt believe it. I saw it in the sold listings search (somthing i also do just to see what has sold and for how much).

edit: i do have access to local nurseries though as ive developed a relationship with one in particular. i guess that does give me some advantage on finding things. Although this nursery doesnt grow anything like SS02, lumberjack, ICAROS, etc.. though it will soon! ;)

Edited by magical9
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Edit: it says that that cactus is a pachanoi by the way, not a peruvian torch.

Lol, good One. Sorry, but I feel trolled by this discussion. Tried to help you but that´s it for me. It was just one Example.

Edited by Evil Genius

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I have nearly 400 cactus now... the large portion of which has come from ebay. I have genetics such as ICAROS, various types of pachanoi, altmans monstrose pachanoi, 4 types of cuzcoensis, 4 types of bridgesii, scopulicola, lumberjack, juuls, SS02, etc etc Sure I havnt seen 2ft tall well grown rooted SS02 in a pot on ebay or a Scopulicola.. but generally you can find cuttings that require you to only stuff them into dirt and wait and then they have roots... thats all ive been doing. By the way i search "trichocereus" "bridgesii" "peruvianus" "pachanoi" on ebay.. .at least 5 times a day (HEH) and i still miss some really good deals. Maybe you arent searching frequent enough. I some how managed to miss an auction for a 2ft+ kimnach pachanoi, couldnt believe it. I saw it in the sold listings search (somthing i also do just to see what has sold and for how much).

edit: i do have access to local nurseries though as ive developed a relationship with one in particular. i guess that does give me some advantage on finding things. Although this nursery doesnt grow anything like SS02, lumberjack, ICAROS, etc.. though it will soon! ;)

Thats the thing. i have plenty of small cuttings and such. 3 typical peruvian torches, an SS02, and many others and more hybrids as well. I am fine growing them and eventually they will become bigger but thats eventually.

The larger the cactus i can buy the quicker it grows and the more cacti i can get from it. I like the beauty of a decent sized plant, does not even have to be rooed so long as its larger than a foot long. thats my main issue. there is never any nice tip cuttings of good size much less a potted rooted cactus.

Pachanoi is great and all but i avoid it mostly. With the PC pachanot running rampid through collections and sellers i try to avoid all the sub species. The problem is unless you know what you are looking for most pachanoi look the same. I have yet to see a picture of a juuls giant that does not look like a pachanoi but really fat. plus in america and on our ebay people will sell PC pachanot all day long as these sub species just to make a quick buck

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Edit: it says that that cactus is a pachanoi by the way, not a peruvian torch.

Lol, good One. Sorry, but I feel trolled by this discussion. Tried to help you but that´s it for me. It was just one Example.

How is it an example when its in Germany, i cant buy it or ship it to america and its not even the right cactus. thats the opposite of an example.

I get that you are trying to help and i really appreciate it, but you are just making my point that i said before: its really f**king hard to find a nice sized peruvian torch that i would be able to buy despite what so many have been claiming.

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Look, i understand that you cannot buy plants on ebay germany. I really get that and feel the same pain. I cannot order plants from Sacred Succulents and so on. But please understand that it doesn´t matter if a plant is labeled Pachanoi or Peruvianus. Or Macrogonus. 90 Percent of these labels are inaccurate anyway. Don´t look on the labels when you buy a San pedro. A Pachanoi can look like a Peruvianus and a Peruvianus can be extremely short spined. They are EXTREMELY variable and it doesn´t matter one little bit of that plant is a Pachanoi or Peruvianus.

Edited by Evil Genius
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Oh lord that irks me.

We should find the worst or least liked species of trichocereus and all pass them around as trichocereus cv Verne .

Wow. Trade marking a dead woman's name for profits. What a fucking ass hole.

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Look, i understand that you cannot buy plants on ebay germany. I really get that and feel the same pain. I cannot order plants from Sacred Succulents and so on. But please understand that it doesn´t matter if a plant is labeled Pachanoi or Peruvianus. Or Macrogonus. 90 Percent of these labels are inaccurate anyway. Don´t look on the labels when you buy a San pedro. A Pachanoi can look like a Peruvianus and a Peruvianus can be extremely short spined.

I agree, most labels are wrong and the only thing we have to go on is the word of the seller and what we can see by eye.

To me i see a lot of bridgesii in that one as many of the areoles of the larger section had 2-4 long spines. At the same time i counted up to 7 or 8 spines in other areoles. So its not a true pachanoi, its a mutt just like most cacti. But its obviously not very close to being a peruvian torch.

i have a short spine peruvian torch, the areoles look like sheilds as opposed to pachanoi which depending on the cultivar with have sunken in areoles that point up(PC pachanot) OR smaller areoles with the spines facing down. those are the two typical styles of pachanoi and one of the easiest way to tell the difference in most cases. Spine count, areoles shape and spacing, and a few other things play a key role.

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Maybe you are right about the lack of Peruvianus on ebay US, but Zircon6 is absolutely not the sole Source for them and I know many american growers who have been trading them for years. If you couldn´t find them, it doesn´t mean they weren´t available. Sometimes people look at the wrong place. Bad luck, life goes on. Now you´re here and I am sure you will find the Variety of great cuttings quite amazing. So yeah, have fun, look around, there are many like minded people here. And I am sure you will find some really cool Plants here. Got to run watch the end of a cheesy movie. Night Guys.

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I'm baffled. Just prior to making that post I performed those searches and noticed at least a handful of suppliers other than Verne who offered what appears to be Rio Rimac type peruvianus. Most were not on page 1 but I lack understanding of our different outcomes.

It might be worth the suggestion that you take a little more time to read some more posts in this forum, even in this thread.

Edited by trucha

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Something also that is worth understanding is that all of these species have a range of features.

Learn to recognize them as best that you can by eye and don't get hung up on things like spine counts. That is going to be the fastest way to find plants that you want to grow. The vast majority of what I've encountered in nurseries and hardware stores either were labeled "Cactus & Succulent" or had no label or were mislabelled.

Its also worth looking out for large specimen plants if you are on or visit the West Coast. MOST people will happily give you a cutting if asked.

Edited by trucha
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amagadz!! theres even a write up on the creature from the black latrine?!!

I wrote to em a while back politely enquiring about a cactus (as I always do) and they were so abusive !!!

I thought some were bad ..., Ive spoken to some real ay holes in cactaceaville

but never one such a bleeding and socially challenged, infected; rectal orrifice.. as this

... very racist/sexist/far too overpriced and kept the abusive mails ... - racism is VERY illegal here ...

for future reference.

I sure hope they have learned the error of their ways but I think they have a loooooonger way to go than most worst case scenarios

to be worse than anybody else world wide is really saying something....

I can't imagine how many people have been left feeling awful in this menace's wake

I feel most sorry for those who have to share the same neighbourhood as them

or have also had a horrible experience with this rude seller

lets hope its really true the old adage: "anyone can change for the better"

sooner rather than later

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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BillyThKid==Zircon6

:crux:

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Billy, I'm puzzled why you would have so much trouble after looking for "almost 2 years now"? You should have been able to locate and purchase just about every Trichocereus species that is commercially available in the USA during that much time.

Maybe try doing a google search for Trichocereus peruvianus plants or for Trichocereus peruvianus for sale? That would be my first suggestion.

must be much like the EU over there, just took me 2 yrs to do get just about every Tricho species (and sought leafy plant species funnily enough) commercially available in the EU, all i had to do was care

and google and ebay , good to know so I can best advise my usa pals ...

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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Oh lord that irks me.

We should find the worst or least liked species of trichocereus and all pass them around as trichocereus cv Verne .

Absolutely wondonerful idea! It'd have to be a cuzco!

Except that his name would then end up being kind of famous, which he'd probably like in some kind of sick way. Haha! ;)

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BillyThKid==Zircon6

:crux:

He's not

I believe zircon6 hates nothing more than K. Trout, so he'll never join a community where trout is a member and much respected by all the members

Edited by Philocacti
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^^^Thunderhorse

"who was cactus kate anyway? , someone cool thats having their name ripped off?"

Not entering into this discussion but isnt Cactus Kate a forum member from Tasmania, ??

that's a ways from America! & really its not my business.

Maybe her name got ripped off???

At least she has cacti named after her now!

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@Billy, Have you ever tried contacting the seller(s) about your interest in a larger cutting? If your willing to pay, I doubt they will care what size you want as long as they have it available. in the US 1ft is just kind of the "standard", but the rest of the world uses 30.48cm :P . Also instead of searching for "peruviana", try searching for named clones? I'm pretty sure IcarosDNA is still considered a true peru, but could be wrong. I have a 2ft rooted specimen that is very beautiful... I got it as a 1ft unrooted cutting last year :wink: . Finally, you have to remember that anyone selling anything on ebay is looking for money. Hopefully in the past two years you've built a bit of a good rep and made friends with a few other growers? These boards are great for getting what your looking for; the members tend to care more about plants than profit. I can't tell you how much free shit I've received over the years, though many collectors will still gladly accept cash :lol:

Aside from a member here from TAS, there was another Cactus Kate in the US... Kate Jackson. This is from the sellers site I think? (http://www.sacredcactus.com/landscaping.htm)

Kate Jackson lived in Watsonville, California where she had ran Desert Theatre selling cactus & succulents. She propagated cuttings brought back from Peru by a botanist in the 1960's. When I met her in 1986 she already had a huge stand of plants from which she took cuttings. The photos above show an old plant that had been growing for decades. That is a single plant in the front of her nursery, I didn't photograph the larger group in the middle of the 1-acre property. Kate sold me my first San Pedro cuttings in 1986, teaching me how to propagate them.

14footer_2006.jpg

In October, 1989 the Loma Prieta earthquake toppled the Oakland Freeway, a portion of the SF Bay Bridge, and destroyed apartments in the Marina district of San Francisco. That was 50 north. Kate's nursery was tens of miles closer; the ground shaking snapped off dozens of tall tips. She called me to drive down and load up my car. Today I have thousands of plants directly descended from this great "mother plant."

Kate died in 2003. I rescued many of her dying specimens in 2006. By then her plant nursery was a weed choked ghost town.

Under a workbench, in the ghost town like nursery Desert Theatre had become, lay a string of brass bells from Tibet. These once chimed, when Kate lived. Today they hang from my deck with a prism crystal attached to the end of the bunch. Every time I go by them I swing the crystal so the bells make their music. And I thank Kate's spirit for the enduring gift she left to all of us.

Edited by hookahhead

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Assuming that zircon6 is the owner of sacredcactus.com...I want my '15 minutes to complain" as well!

Admittedly I'm a bit of a soil snob, thus I'd like to point out another discrepancy.

http://www.sacredcactus.com/san_pedro_cactus_potting_soil.htm

* Real compost is technically humus. It is black, smells sweet and holds moisture. If it does not smell sweet & clean like a forest floor do not use it. Cow manure is not compost and has urine in it. "Redwood compost" is actually mulch and will rob nitrogen from your soil mix. Only an experienced organic gardener can set you on the right path with compost. Why is it so important? Because it contains humus--the substance that mediates ion exchange with plant roots. It also contains beneficial organisms that symbiotically live with and feed your plants. Badly made compost (anaerobic decomposition) can be harmful as it is full of pathogenic organisms.

Or the alternative explanation?

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/organic/2002121127011493.html

What is the real difference between Compost and Humus?

This discussion has come up many times on this site on the Soil/Compost and Organic Gardening forums. When is organic matter "compost and when is it humus? Here are some of the responses by some of our OG experts and friends on this site. The following are just a few resonses in a recent discussion:

BILL_G:

"Humus is the stable, long lasting remnant of decaying organic material. It improves soil structure and increases water retention. It's nutritive qualities include trace elements and several important organic acids but do not include nitrogen or phosphorus"

IANN:

"Mature compost is still organic matter and can be used when your planting instructions request it. Organic matter that hasn't decayed as far as compost shouldn't normally be used directly on plants because the nutrient balance and pH can get all out of whack as it decays (too much nitrogen in fresh manure, or nitrogen depletion as woodchips decompose) and because it may still contain toxic substances (fungal diseases, weed seeds, or toxic bacteria).

You are right, humus has no nutritive value. It's also impossible to get hold of since it can't be manufactured. It also can't be produced from decaying organic matter in a reasonably pure form on any sensible timescale. Lastly, we don't know exactly what humus is chemically so while you may find stuff sold as "humus" or "humates" or something similar, its buyer beware, you really have no guarantees about what is in the bag.

Humus is good because it has extremely high absorption abilities. It can hold and release water and nutrients as needed. It also improves the physical structure of soil so that it is crumbly and aerated instead of a nasty clay mess or an arid beach."

KELLY_CASSIDY:

"A lot of confusion is created by different uses of the words "organic" and "humus." To a scientist, an organic molecule is a molecule that contains carbon. All life is based on carbon compounds, so living and dead cells are loosely refered to as organic material, even though they also contain inorganic molecules like water. Leaves, mushrooms, trees, live rats, dead rats, fish, etc. are "organic material." "Organic gardening" is a vague term that means many things to many people. The source of the term is probably that "organic gardeners" tend to avoid adding nutrients in their inorganic form.

To a soil scientist, "humus" is the organic, non-cellular, long-lasting component of soil. It is organic because it is composed of chemicals containing carbon. It is mostly extremely stable carbon compounds with no phosphorus or nitrogen. Their stable form makes them difficult to break down by microorganisms. If humic compounds had N or P, micro-oragnisms would try harder to attack them, but since they don't, they aren't worth the effort. Humus is non-cellular because everything else in the cell breaks down and gets recycled into other organisms, leaving the humus in the soil but no longer within a cell. The term "humus" gets tossed around loosely by gardeners to mean the organic material that makes soil brownish, not all of which is humus. In nature, humus accumulates in soil because it lasts for hundreds or thousands of years. (Trivia: In a typical northern deciduous forest, most of the organic material in the forest is in the soil NOT the living trees and most of the organic material in soil is humus. That's because humus hangs around for so long.) Humus often lasts in soil until a hot fire burns through the soil. "Compost" is a matter of location and planning. Anything living starts decomposing when it dies. You call it compost when you put it in a pile and WATCH it decompose. "

LYCOPUS:

"Compost can contain humus at any stage. Humus does not occur alone in soil. I put the following together to the best of my ability to explain the distinction...corrections welcome

In the strictest sense humus is made up of humic substances composed of Carbon, Oxygen, and Hydrogen. These include humic acids, fulvic acids, and humins. Some Nitrogen may be present but not in any significant quantity. Plants obtain those first three elements by means other than soil so "pure" humus has no significant nutritive value. Mature compost is not pure humus, it also contains carbohydrates, lipids, and amino acids, not to mention living organisms feeding on the remaining undecomposed or partially decomposed material (can't expect them to eat it all at once!). Many of these contain Nitrogen that is released gradually over time. Not all organic matter in compost will be at the same stage of decomposition at any given time.

Humus or even soil organic matter in general isn't perfect soil. There is no such thing as the perfect soil because needs of plants vary. Generally a good soil contains a combination of sand, silt, clay and organic matter. For the purposes of gardening,

\agriculture, and even some soil science humus is considered to be synonymous with soil organic matter. This is the non-mineral portion of soil. So when a gardener talks about adding humus to soil they mean leaf mold or compost. When scientists talk about humus they have big numbers and formulas in their heads."

deusexmachina:

"The definitional problem here is actually quite easy to resolve. It is the standard distinction between colloquial usage and scientific usage. Colloquially, if you add mature compost, or even immature compost, to soil, the resulting mix is humus. The same can be said of adding lemon juice to crushed sesame seeds, but that is a different story. When actually studying soil, however, it is important to make sure that everyone is on the same page with their definintions, and that those definitions offer enough destinctions with other terms to provide a useful purpose, or else why use them.

To this end, soil scientists break up the components of soil into categories. The portion that is the stable organic component is then refered to as humus, the portion that it is sand, clay, and related particles is silicates, the OM that is still decaying is, surprisingly, decaying organic matter. A simple way to look at this from the scientists perspective is to think of potting mix made from 1/3 peat, 1/3 compost, 1/3 sand or perlite. Peat is pretty much in its final state. It may have been that way for thousands of years, and may continue to be. Peat is humus. The compost, even if mature, is still breaking down and supplying nutrients. It is the decaying OM. The sand is the silicates.

Normal soil has these fractions mixed together to differing degrees, and to make up for local deficiencies in one or another based on the types of plants you are growing, you ammend your soil. The benefit of compost is thus two-fold. First, it has the immediate effect of adding nutrients and bacterial components that aid in soil conditioning. Second, as the seasons progress, it eventually converts to humus and increases your humus count. Thus compost, over several seasons, can often be used by itself for growing, but there are some exceptions. Cacti, for instance, will not appreciate a soil made exclusively from compost and its humic derivatives. Without significant silicates or their equivalent, they will die.

The distincion mentioned by Kelly between "organic" as used by science and "organic" as used by gardeners is another story, and a pet peeve of mine. The distinction stemmed from a long-ago disproven belief called vitalism that maintained that organic molecules, carbon compounded with other elements (just having carbon is NOT the sole criterion, else diamond would be considered organic and it is not, and so would CO2, which also isn't) HAD per se to be manufactured by living things, that organic molecules were somehow different from other chemicals by virtue of possessing a force vitae. This belief was utterly overthrown in 1828 when Friedrich Woehler published a brief paper describing the synthesis of the organic compound urea, formerly isolated from urine, from ammonium cyanate via: (NH4+)(-OHN) ---> O=C(NH2)2. This laid the ground work for the dismantling of the concept of vitalism in chemistry, but not in the popular mind, and the idea still permeates modern society and gardening lore. Chemisty then split into two branches, biochemistry, which studied the actual chemistry of life, and organic chemistry, which studied the properties and interactions of carbon compounds. When many people say "organic" they really mean "biologic". This sloppiness is important, as many highly toxic substances are "organic," and mistaken beliefs that organic compounds are safe, just because they are biological, is a natural by-product of clinging to vitalism.

So, all that being said, here is a quick primer:

Organic matter - stuff that came from biological sources (should be biological matter. Diamonds and graphite don't decompose!) This includes humus, mature compost, immature compost, freshly cut plants, live plants, etc.

Humus - (soil science) that portion of the soil that has fully broken down and is thus stable. This stability is important because it allows you to remove it from consideration in a lot of investigations, and this is why soil sciences define it this way. This, incidentally, is also why its constituents have not been subjected to rigorous scientific investigation. It is not that it is somehow mysterious or has magical properties that elude investigation, it is just that it is only recently that anyone has really bothered to think about applying modern analytical techniques to this fraction of the soil. Contrary to common belief, a large number of its constituents ARE known. Their relative proportions vary from implementation to implementation, however, and thus no simple answer is really forthcoming as to "what humus is," as it is a dynamic mix of substances. humus - (colloquially) The organic portion of the soil (you can see how this definition has use for the gardener, but is too impercise for much usefulness in an investigation of soil properties.)

Compost - organic matter in a purposeful state of partial decomposition. The purposeful part is important. Dead stuff on the ground is NOT compost, just decaying orgainc matter. It is the controlled, or semi-controlled conditions that make it compost.

Immature Compost - compost that has not undergone enough decomposition to be of maximal benefit. This definition is thus use-specific, but usually implies insufficient pathogen destruction, lack of friability, poor moisture retention, active generation of metabolic gasses. Primarily still in bacterial stage of decomposition.

Mature Compost - compost that has decomposed to the point of maximal usefulness. Usually in the fungal/actinomycete stage.

So all mature compost is organic matter, but not all organic matter is mature compost. If what you are after is soil conditinoing alone, then the terms humus and mature compost are all but interchangeable."

FIELD:

"One more important attribute of humus should be listed, in addition to improving soil structure (or texture) and water retention. Humus also has a high cation exchange capacity, which means it acts as a veritable storehouse for plant nutrients, something that can be especially important for those with sandy soils."

******************************************************

So what do you think? (LOL)

Happy Gardening!

Edited by hookahhead

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Hi Guys, please stop with the verbal Insults. Don´t want to give anyone the Basis for a Lawsuit and stuff like this. So please phrase your words in a way that can't be thrown back at us legally. We don´t go down there because We are way better than that.

And please don´t speculate about billy being a shell Account for that Guy. If you can't prove it, that´s just speculation. And i´d really hope he´d have the balls not to use a shell Account for that. ;)

And btw, if he would want to join us here, i wouldn´t have a problem with it. I´d really like to hear his stance about the Trademark and if that should be used to prohibit people from using that Phrase. Like as usernames for example. I have not a problem with him making Money of Cacti. That´s totally legitimate. What i don´t like is this feud between him and Trout. But again, i treat everyone the same. I am a moderator and my personal feelings are absolutely irrelevant.

I do not want a feud in the cactus scene and it makes me sad to see how he´s been bashing a good friend of mine and that´s not acceptable. But i don´t walk around throwing out members because they did things i do not agree with. As long as he´d behaving and doesn´t insult anyone, he´d be a normal member. Period. So no need for the witch hunt. ;)

Edited by Evil Genius
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Hi Guys, please stop with the verbal Insults. Don´t want to give anyone the Basis for a Lawsuit and stuff like this. So please phrase your words in a way that can't be thrown back at us legally. We don´t go down there because We are way better than that.

And please don´t speculate about billy being a shell Account for that Guy. If you can't prove it, that´s just speculation. And i´d really hope he´d have the balls not to use a shell Account for that. ;)

Im not. you can look over on the Mycotopia.net form and see i have been a member there almost a year and that i only just recently started getting into hard core cactus collecting.

Between april of 2013 and a few months ago i have collected 54 different genus of cacti and many sub species and hybrids, at least 150 or more cacti are in my collection not to mention the other Shaman plants i have.

Im a very young fellow, im a 90s child. Im not this zicron or whatever. im not even defending him. I flat out said he was a jack ass in my first comment.

As a new member i really dont feel like this is very welcoming. However, this forum is full of very bright and intellectual people.....i hope.

  • Like 4

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