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ace1928

Anyone Interested In Group Spirulina Purchase

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Hey guys,

As the title suggests If you are interested in a group purchase of spirulina culture from the CSIRO let me know

They are stupidly expensive cultures thanks to the CSIRO. All of their stuff is stupidly expensive

A$140 for 20 millilitre cultures and A$230 for 250 ml cultures (GST and freight and packaging not included)
Taken from their site.

So really it would be awesome if we could get 10 or more people interested. The culture once establish expands rapidly and I plan to get a 1000L culture going in the near future. If that happens I'll be posting a never ending giveaway thread for the culture too. Once set up it can nearly double in cell count every 24 hours. As you can imagine that is insane growth.

So yeh I really hope there is a heap of interest because I cannot afford $140 for 20mL of algae -.-

Cheers everyone :D

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Awesome. Glad that there is at least one other person interested straight away. Im going to hit up some mates as well see if they are interested. 10 people would make it much cheaper. Even with shipping. I plan to expand it to 10 ml cultures first and then go form those 10ml cultures to 250ml cultures and from them into 2L bottles and then into the 1000L tank.

Fingers crossed we can get the people together :)

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Has any one tried growing in the southern states, VIC, TAS? What kind of setup do you use once we're out of the hotter months?

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For an indoor set up you could get a mylar emergency blanket, fish heater and some halogen bulbs as a light source.
The mylar can go outside the tank to help stop heat loss and help reflect the light all through the tank set up.
Apparently you can get a teaspoon per day from a 15L tank. A heater for a 15L tank uses about 10W power. For a real cheapy perhaps 30W. You could even put that in an esky and then put it in a full sun spot. Just put the lid on the esky each night to keep it really toasty.

There are always ways

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I'm half keen.

Do CSIRO give the specific requirements for their clone?

And the thermal tolerances would be handy to know as well.

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If the water drops below 20C then it will stop growing and start to die pretty quick. Optimum temperature is 25C. They like salt and they like a pH of 10. Which is awesome because basically nothing else can grow in there with it. Which is a good thing.

Other than that an organic fertilizer applied every so often and an iron supplement every so often. From what I can gather it's pretty damn tough.
You need to aerate the water too to provide CO2. Heard of an absolutely ingenious way to provide lots of CO2 today as well. Brew your own beer and run a hose from the top of the beer keg/vat into the water that the algae is in. While the yeast is fermenting it will pump HEAPS of CO2 into the algae tank. I reckon its ingenious haha

There are a lot of instructions if you google "how to grow spirulina at home"

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I did intensive algal culture (macro and micro) lads for as an elective many moons ago (within Utas School of Aquaculture at the time -not my area) .Fckn hardest unit I ever did....did I mention it was an elective...lol....

Did it to complement my other plans of biological manipulations at the time.

we use to do the culturing in plastic bags :wink: fluoro tubs standing up the sides.

Its all sealed after setup , with taps and lines in....kick it off with a pure culture....stops contamination.

If your serious you'll wanna go to bags....too much can go wrong in an open system. I still wouldn't gurantee a contaminant otherwise. Might take me a bit to find the box....as I have a lot of "boxes"...lol...but I know I still have the notes/pracs and shit.

Was also the biggest set of course notes I've ever seen.

To be honest I don't think those cultures are "stupidly" expensive...it takes a lot to maintain algal cultures...and you'll probably get a fantastic and guranteed clean culture....20ml is a hellava lot of cells :wink:

EDIT - CSIRO most probably has a licence/agreement setup which may "potentially" hinder some aspects such as distributing cultures - haven't got time to investigate..... but I could probably throw a few bucks in to make shit happen if interest is light

will add the banks of culture bags were grown in controlled grow room, as the species being grown also had specific requirements for heat

EDIT - I think your expansion to 1000L will be problematic (light penetration one aspect).....150-200L was the sweet spot for most of what we cultured "aquaculture ghetto style"....otherwise you are going bioreactor

Edited by waterboy
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a378.jpg

This might give ya a better idea of what I was wafflin about...lol...generally polyethylene bags....we used endless rolls and made bags basically by sealing the ends :wink:

Algae_bags.jpg.JPG

These ones are examples of bags spiked from a stock culture then grown until they nearly crash (metabolites mostly) then harvested....just keep cycling them around with freshies...food for thought.

Edited by waterboy
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We definitely don't have 10 people interested yet.
I think we have 5 including myself 6 if you include thunderideal (Not sure if actually interested or just commenting on waterboys post though)

Halfway there.

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I've been researching this a bit lately on night shift and the $45 for the small culture IMO seems quite reasonable! You'd only need a fraction of that to start! Either way lemme know how this goes.

Edit; just read $140, my bad, defiantly keep me posted on the group order LOL

Edited by prioritise

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Dunno if there is 5 yet....

$28 for 5 punters....

$14 for 10....

+ postage/handling/government tax rape - might pay to make an enquiry if your keen Ace.

Also need the licensing/conditions clarified.

I can go $28 +% cut of the BS easy.....could go $56 and % cut if short....to make shit happen.

I like biological things..a lot.....not sure if I can handle another atm but would be keen for better access.

you can ghetto them in a fishtank....pH will limit contams but is still on the edge of limits for some bacteria such as vibrios so you still have to take some care.

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How do they limit contams so heavily in the outdoor commercial ponds that operate?
They are open top and everything. I assume that in a pH 10 environment the spirulina will eventually hit a concentration of cells that causes it to out compete everything else?
$28 for 5 would be doable. I'll send them a message over the weekend so they read it sometime next week and when I get their response we can make a decision as to what we want to do.

As for the licensing things wouldn't it technically be possible to just get a new strain from the strain you buy from them? That would then be a new set of algae cells and surely not covered by any kind of licence.
I also have a feeling that if it isn't for commercial purposes it could be different. Gotta check that out though.

Anyways I hope we can get a few more people.

Thanks so far to those interested :)

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lol....do not think the outdoor culture is not problematic Ace..antibiotics mostly..commercial spirulina is NOT an "organic" product for most major producers.

http://jalgalbiomass.com/paper1vol4no3.pdf (just an example)

Thats just one aspect...there are a variety of potential contaminants....pH 10 is not a safety net when microorganisms are involved.

In most places where grown in the open its just a matter of outgrowing most contams, typically they are still in the cultures but have not been able to get to numbers that are "problematic".

They are also vulnerable when they go beyond the maximum cell density.....there is so much to algal culture commercially.

I've not grown spirulina for the record....but I have grown a LOT of macro and micro algae species.

I also spent a lot of time in the labs starting and looking after cultures to make student coin :wink:

You make creating a new strain sound easy Ace....algae genetics is a field in its own right.

I am not trying to have an arguement or attack you mate....just addressing your points above mate.

but yes contamination is an important matter to address

EDIT - better add that a lot of commercial production is done in places with dubious water quaity, and bioaccumulation of heavy metals is not uncommon

Edited by waterboy

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Don't worry not taking it as an attack at all. Loving the information actually haha
I have heard of the bioaccumulation of the metals. Did not even think about antibiotics. I suppose they would just pump the water full of chems, much the same as a lot of farming on land -.-

Why are the cyanobacterium so hard to breed?

Cheers

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Asexual reproduction....allows mass reproduction but with limited variation (remain as diploid "copy" - not haploid then rejoining from different "parents" and hence opportunities for variations) to be pretty basic about it.

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Interesting... There would have to be some variation though otherwise the species wouldn't have survived this long.

Perhaps you could isolate a strain by being particularly harsh on the algal culture compared to normal. Perhaps gradual increases in pH until you get some cells that are particularly tolerant, even for spirulina.
Surely that would work if you were slow and steady about it?

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Count me in re. group order!

Quickly checked the online DIY home kits/instructions, seems straight forward and relatively easy, meaning risk of contamination is not mentioned at all.

However waterboys comments/experience seem warranted. Having only experience in the area of mycology myself, I well know how quickly "things can turn".

Oh well only one way to find out.... :-)

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http://www.algaeindustrymagazine.com/growing-spirulina-at-home/

^one of the better ones I've found

As innocent as it may seem, Spirulina is in fact an extremophile, capable of growing in extremely alkaline water inhospitable to almost every other organism. Most other algae grow in essentially pH-neutral water, which supports the growth of a vast range of algae—including types that produce toxins—as well as doing nothing to inhibit the growth of other potentially harmful organisms such as bacteria. In my biofuel-algae work, we’re constantly fending off invasive species. It’s not just an academic concern. Since it is generally hard to control the growth of possibly harmful stuff (and although it’s fun, we think you should look at your culture under the microscope every day), this aspect of Spirulina cultivation is pretty key to growing pure and safe cultures on a DIY basis. *emphasis is WBs

Although risk is lower , I stand behind my concerns....only takes another blue-green producing microcystins and you won't wanna go back - as another example. A bit of knowledge can always be a dangerous thing.....

I'd advise checking every second day, and a hemocytometer (counting chamber) is bloody handy for establishing cell densities if your serious. You can only vouch for your culture under the 'scope as well, you will need to know your subject species well to be sure...to be sure.

If you can't do that at the very least be very careful with ya source water.....

EDIT -not trying to make it sound hard, its actually pretty bloody easy with precautions. But a lot of those simple sites lack a lot when it comes to culture.

....will also add not in a position to grow for a while - got too much on, but could do a reasonable number of 'scope verifications if I am not snowed with other mad science shit :wink:

Edited by waterboy
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any feedback from CSIRO Ace?

I've had a look over the site today... There will be a few hurdles to jump by the looks of it reading service order and transfer agreement, (+ Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) agreement).

They may not be geared up to supply to individuals....but that can be worked through :wink:

I will note that by the looks of it even if you did isolate a strain it is still in CSIRO domain, and there may be a distribution clause:

5. Ownership and Intellectual Property Rights

(a) The Strain and its derivatives remain the property of CSIRO.

( This Agreement does not transfer ownership of any intellectual property rights in the strain or its derivatives.

© Unless an IPR Agreement has been agreed in accordance with paragraph (d), the Recipient will not apply for, commercialise or assign any intellectual property rights (including patents and plant breeder’s rights) that it could not have created or developed but for its use of the Strain (‘Strain IPR’).

(d) The parties will negotiate in good faith and according to their respective contributions an ‘IPR Agreement’ under which:

(i) CSIRO grants the Recipient the right to use the Strain to commercialise Strain IPR for Applications in the Field;

(ii) the Recipient agrees to pay CSIRO, fees and/or royalties for the commercialisation of Strain IPR for Applications in the Field; and

(iii) the Recipient grants CSIRO an irrevocable, royalty-free licence to use or commercialise Strain IPR other than for Applications in the Field and to use Strain IPR for research.

Arthrospira maxima CS-328 caught my eye in the strain catalogue

Edited by waterboy

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