Ariocarpus , astrophytum and BAP

[myco]

So I'm fairly new to growing ariocarpus and well I absolutely love em

However I only have single specimens that don't have any pups

Just going off all the pictures I see they seem to pup from the base not the tubercles or in between the tubercles is this correct ?

Or do they pup from the older lower tubercles ?

My question is if I were to BAP them to induce pupping where would be the best place to do it

Should I uproot them or atleast uncover some of the base and BAP it there

I'm also wondering how the hell to get my asterias to pup

I've had no problems getting all of my astro's to pup except for asterias

What's with that I've even bapped heaps of em and not one has ever pupped

And I know it's not my mix as it works on everything else

[Jack]

Can't really comment on bap however in my experience and that of visiting very large ario collections is that on there own roots they usually stay solitary.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule..

[Jack]

Btw this could just be that they grow so slowly

[myco]

I thought that seemed to be the case with both asterias and ario's

I've grafted a few recently an A. Lloydi and an A. Kosch and managed to graft a tubercle of each aswell

I think I'll try bapping both the full plants at the base

Still don't understand the Asterias not pupping they've all been bapped well over a year ago

I've got a couple of variegated ones I really want to get to pup

[Jack]

ariocarpus kotschoubeyanus being so small naturally go crazy pupping like mad when grafted while forcing it to grow very quickly (which is desirable for slow growers) makes it look unnatural and to me not as nearly as appealing.

[myco]

Yeh I agree with that from the pics I've seen

I only have 3 kotschoubeyanus I'm just looking to build the collection up a bit

I've only got about 10 ario's in total apart from a shitload of fissuratus and furfuracious seedlings

So I wanna try and graft atleast one of each of the other varieties I have

Have you grown much from seedlings jack heaps of mine are a really dark red purple colour

I can't really figure out why I know it's not that their getting to much sunlight

Is this just a common thing when they're small

[zelly]

BAP will be 100% ineffective when used on arios and or astros.

If you want multi headed specimens of those, you must graft at a very early age.

[5is]

What species is bap effective on?

[Myeloblast]

myco, I have a ton of ariocarpus seedlings and they don't like much light at all when they are tiny. They will be green if they are growing much at all, if they are red/purple they are stalling. I will get some pics of seedlings a little later for you.

Here's a kotsch v. elephantidens of mine going crazy with pups and flowers

[hostilis]

When they're grafted on pereskiopsis they pup like mad. I have an A. trigonus growing that has about 17 pups on a pereskiopsis. It doesn't even look like an ariocarpus.

[Jack]

Myco red indicates some sort of stress, if it was happenign to me either too much light or temperature.

I would try adding a small square of shade cloth made into a tent with toothpicks over a few seedlings to see if this helps.

[Myeloblast]

Some ario seedlings finally starting to green up after removal from humid conditions

I had to add shade cloth to get them to grow again, even under T12 fluoro's

[myco]

Interesting maybe they are getting to much heat or humidity then they're in the hothouse under shade cloth

they only get about half a day of shaded direct sunlight in their position

They do seem to have stalled to maybe I'll bring them back inside and just put them next to the lights and not directly under them

@ zelly I was beginning to think this was the case with my Astros

Thanks for the help guys looks like I'll have to do some more ario grafting if I wanna multiply them

[mystical oyster]

This is an a. Retusus

When i originally grafted it, it was variegated, nearly albino

Soon after grafting it turned red and has stayed that way but it does appear to be growing well.

At first i thought the red had something to do with the variegation but you are saying this could be due to stress?

Damn i was so excited until i learned that. But it was variegated so im still excited to see what comes from it.

Apologies for the crappy photo

[mystical oyster]

This may have been covered but i did do a search with not much luck, sorry guys i use a phone for the internet and i find navigating my around hard at times.

Im doing a big ario, astro plant out this season and want to know best soil mix for germinating.

I know many of you are against it but for my trichs i just use store bought cacti mix. And i get great germination! i was thinking cacti mix with limestone and course sand.

If this topic is covered could someone please link me up. Or a quick answer would be appreciated.

Suitable soil mix for germinating ariocarpus and astrophytum?

Apologies to derail the thread

Thanks

[mystical oyster]

Actually all good, dont derail this any further, i found a few answers, and im sure my mix will do fine as i have grown arios on straight store bought cacti mix before.

Thanks

[Optimystic]

I just read on another forum the other day that if you graft an ario seedling low, meaning to get part of the root, that its much more likely to

put on multiple heads (and that makes sense because of how they pup)... so far I have one that did that looks pretty cool but it was not intentional

fwiw i've started some in both a peat mix, w/sand and perlite and in a coir mix with sand and approx 20% compost. both abt 50% sifted sand or granite grit.

so far so good

[Philocacti]

This is an a. Retusus

When i originally grafted it, it was variegated, nearly albino

Soon after grafting it turned red and has stayed that way but it does appear to be growing well.

At first i thought the red had something to do with the variegation but you are saying this could be due to stress?

Damn i was so excited until i learned that. But it was variegated so im still excited to see what comes from it.

Apologies for the crappy photo

CAM00161.jpg

All the Ariocarpus seedlings I grafted on pereskiopsis turned red for the 1st year or so, and we're growing slow relatively to Lophophora grafted to pereskiopsis. But after that the greeted up nicely.

[Myeloblast]

I just read on another forum the other day that if you graft an ario seedling low, meaning to get part of the root, that its much more likely to

put on multiple heads (and that makes sense because of how they pup)... so far I have one that did that looks pretty cool but it was not intentional

Here's a few of mine that pupped as you describe, both of these are variegated plants. Also happened unintentionally for me, but on a lot of plants I grafted. Easier to produce with very young seedlings I think, or just inversion grafting of the bottom half of the plant if you cut it a little higher. Its a great way to increase plant numbers from very few seedlings

kotschoubeyanus v. elephantidens x (fissuratus v. intermedius x trigonus)

[hostilis]

When I graft ariocarpus onto hylocereus and selenicereus this doesn't happen ^^^ They grow a bit slower, but look more natural. So much better.

[Myeloblast]

I wouldn't be using pereskiopsis to graft if I was looking for a more natural appearance to the plant, the goal is propagation. This gives me 5-10 growing points from a single seedling, each of which will be regrafted to permanent stock when big enough. Then they all start to look more normal.

[hostilis]

I still think they're way better. Hehe. They pup as well sometimes, just not all weird and ugly looking like on peres. Plus nothing EVER stalls out on those two types of stock. On peres a lot of species will just stall out for several months before growing. So far nothing has done it with hylo and selen, they just start right on growing. You should try em out sometime.

Edited August 28, 2014 by hostilis

[Optimystic]

just curious are you grafting seedlings or aereoles.. mostly referrting to triches, i've had no success grafting seedlings to larger stocks but I haven't tried with arios nor have I grafted to hylo.. I do have an ario aereole sitting on a pere, pumped or at least hydrated for over 2 months maybe 3 now... I may have put out in harsh sun too fast but seems to be taking it eh I didn't expect it to be fast to grow ... some turb pups on pere took off pretty fast but I over baked them too, but they have adjusted finally..

on your ones that did pup, I just wonder if they were seedlings and did you cut low meaning get part of seedling near the root when you grafted ... I think when scions stall in pere alot of times it has to do with the vascular alightnment at least with triches but I had the experience that every one of my werdermannianus grafts took many months to start growing on pere.. got a new batch of werds from different seeds just recently grafted and they already look like they are moving a little in less than 10 days but not really sure yet... i screwed up and rotted a couple peres ugh but i got a few going

btw I made 36 grafts of that furfuraceous monstrose and most of them shriveled within 10 days. only two areoles seem to have taken on opuntias and one small half head... not surprised tho cause the vascular bundles looked pretty dry and the plant wasn't actively growing... I kept 3 heads to root as well and one of them dried up but one already had a root poked out and seems to be okay eh

as far as the term "better" ... that's just a cactus culture thing lol

its subjective and I think the multi head ones look pretty cool but yeah probably ideal for propagation

in my case for practice if I ever get around to cutting, even with multi heads they're still so pretty!

this one is supposed to be restusus confusus but I think its maybe something else or a cross

excuse the little hair and the dried blade of grass.. I was blinded by beauty and didn't notice

Edited August 28, 2014 by Spine Collector

[hostilis]

Yeah. It's all personal prefference for sure. I like those stocks better for my purposes. I'm not trying to mass propagate. I just want some faster growing single headed arios.

[Myeloblast]

I'm really not saying either is better, it just depends on the end goal of the graft. I have used seleni and hylo both, I really like seleni, I just don't have the numbers of stock or the experience like I do with peresk, and even if I did, I'd still use peresk to produce growing points for regrafting to myrtillo, stenocereus, and seleni for the smallest ones.

I really don't have a problem with plants stalling on peresk either, maybe 1 in 20 grafts, which I end up just throwing away or recutting onto a different stock. I agree with Spine Collector it probably has to do with vascular alignment, contamination on the cut surfaces, or maybe the peresk stock wasn't growing well to begin with.

Spine Collector: I'm speaking only of seedling grafts, I've only attempted two tubercle grafts onto trichs, one of which took and one didn't. The one that took hasn't done anything and not really optimistic about it lol. I'll reserve tubercle grafting for emergency situations only I think, they seem to produce mixed results at best.

I don't intentionally cut low on the seedling, I go for straight down the middle, but I would guess that the tissue of the lower part of the plant does contain lots cells capable of differentiating into new shoots. I'm not a botanist so this is just conjecture lol, but that appears to be the case. I say this because I've grafted both ends of a cut seedlings to peresk several times now, and the results seem to go one of two ways:

The top produces a single head, that might pup from areoles, but not from around the graft union like you see in my pictures above. The bottom half will throw out lots of pups though

or, The top produces lots of pups at the base near the graft union, and the bottom half does nothing and stalls, as if you left it without the cells capable of differentiation into new shoots.

I plan to try and cut seedlings on a diagonal next time I do a batch, and try to get massive pupping from both ends of the seedling.

Found this guy had germinated yesterday, seems like a good candidate

seed from a retusus x agavoides plant, open-pollinated

I think the single head arios look best personally, but I like the multi-headed look too if it's not horribly monstrose-looking; like the 'confusus' you posted is a very nice plant It doesn't look especially confusus to me, tubercles are too fat and wide rather than slender, pointed, they also point down more than up. A hybrid with furfuraceus maybe?

Edited August 28, 2014 by Myeloblast