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Plants with properties of Naloxone? Plants that stop drug experiences.

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I was reading the thread about Naloxone on here and I noticed that they dont mention it's use in counter effecting opiate-overdose.

My point is are there any plants with the properties Naloxone in the sense that they stop an overdose?

Also are there herbs/plants that would stop or subdue an unwelcome drug experience (amphetamines, opiates, cannabis, psychedelics etc).

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Salvia

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I could see salvia used in addiction rehabilitation but snapping you out of an over dose on opiates or another substance? It would most likely be detrimental in times of emergency

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Huh? Salvinorin-A is a kappa-opioid agonist, not an antagonist. Agonists activate the receptors, antagonists like naloxone block them. Or are you talking about some other salvia compound?

Coffee is supposed to contain some kind of mu-antagonist (mu is the primary painkilling/euphoric opioid receptor, kappa is just weird :P ) compounds (link, link), but who knows how much you would have to drink - I doubt it would be an alternative to naloxone in serious OD cases. I'm actually cringing a bit just thinking about people doing that.

For anyone who watches too much American TV, the paramedics in this country will not bring in cops in simple drug OD cases - it is safe to call them, no one will get arrested. Don't go around making opioid overdoses any more dangerous than they need to be.

Also Doc, it would help if you could link to the thread you mean. But I suspect you may be talking about the discussions of ultra-low-dose naltrexone therapy? Or maybe that thread discussing dextro-naloxone?

edit: older thread here has some info too, although it is mainly about ULDN.

Edited by Anodyne
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Kratom contains some compounds which are antagonist (corynantheidine) or partial-agonist (9-hydroxycorynantheidine) at mu receptors, but seeing as these effects are cancelled out by the mu-agonist components like mitragynine, this information is probably of little practical value in countering an opiate OD.

All of the drugs you mention in the first post are from different classes and have totally different mechanisms. There is no one-size-fits-all antidote for "drug overdose". Naloxone is kind of a rarity in that sense. In a lot of cases attempting to neutralise an unwelcome effect of a drug has to be done at the "treating the symptoms" level, which can often lead to other problems, sometimes life-threatening ones.

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Sorry that was a joke obviously

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I cant drink caffine as it will make my dose of Methadone much less effective for the next 24hrs or so.

Ive also been around opiate OD's where people have been force fed instant coffee slurries because its a bit of an old street lore method to deal with it. (Dont know if it actually helps or not, always made a big mess though)

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Yeah, I've seen this too unfortunately. It never seemed to help all that much, certainly didn't snap them out of it the way naloxone would. I kind of figure if they're conscious enough to be drinking, then they probably would have survived anyway. Apparently it was an old treatment for opium overdose to give patients coffee enemas, so who knows, maybe it does work.

Coolname - good to know you were joking mate. Thousands wouldn't have been, that agonist/antagonist confusion is pretty common and I didn't want this to be the thread that started the "salvia cures heroin overdose" myth! No one deserves that!

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Kratom contains some compounds which are antagonist (corynantheidine) or partial-agonist (9-hydroxycorynantheidine) at mu receptors, but seeing as these effects are cancelled out by the mu-agonist components like mitragynine, this information is probably of little practical value in countering an opiate OD.

All of the drugs you mention in the first post are from different classes and have totally different mechanisms. There is no one-size-fits-all antidote for "drug overdose". Naloxone is kind of a rarity in that sense. In a lot of cases attempting to neutralise an unwelcome effect of a drug has to be done at the "treating the symptoms" level, which can often lead to other problems, sometimes life-threatening ones.

Than you for clarifying the antagonists and agonists, I've had trouble with them in the past.

Im not looking for a one stop drug, Naloxone just started me on the path to find out if plants could stop bad trips etc.

I guess this thread is open for ANY drug inhibiting plant.

I'm incredibly fascinated by the potential of plants. Such as Tanzy's ability to de-worm your gut, induce abortions at high levels (although Tansy has some toxicity issues) and the potential for anti-viral drugs.

http://www.hawkeshealth.net/community/archive/index.php/t-6089.html?s=8b20f712a84fdfa4c1b2918b60e8bad1

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Salvia

Sorry that was a joke obviously

Don't know if it would be applicable to an overdose situation, but work is being done on Salvinorin A as a potential anti-addiction drug for cocaine: "Salvinorin a analogs and other kappa-opioid receptor compounds as treatments for cocaine abuse." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24484985

Could be interesting.

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"Conditioned aversion": sounds like the treatment in Clockwork Orange. Those poor rats.

I don't think this would have any effect on an OD - the effects they're talking about are on the brains reward/reinforcement/learning pathways, so I can see how it might impact addictions and other learned behaviours, but not an overdose situation.

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In the Netherlands they sell mushroom stopper supplements. They contain Valerian, Dextrose and vitamin C if I remember correctly. They do not stop the trip, but combined with a good hit of placebo are said to knock it down a notch and help the tripper relax.

I would expect a similar formula would work fairly good for pot too.

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Whoa...synchronicity. I just stumbled upon this article in some unrelated research:

Valerian extract and valerenic acid are partial agonists of the 5-HT5a receptor in vitro.
Dietz BM, Mahady GB, Pauli GF, Farnsworth NR.
Abstract

Insomnia is the most frequently encountered sleep complaint worldwide. While many prescription drugs are used to treat insomnia, extracts of valerian (Valeriana officinalis L., Valerianaceae) are also used for the treatment of insomnia and restlessness. To determine novel mechanisms of action, radioligand binding studies were performed with valerian extracts (100% methanol, 50% methanol, dichloromethane [DCM], and petroleum ether [PE]) at the melatonin, glutamate, and GABA(A) receptors, and 8 serotonin receptor subtypes. Both DCM and PE extracts had strong binding affinity to the 5-HT(5a) receptor, but only weak binding affinity to the 5-HT(2b) and the serotonin transporter. Subsequent binding studies focused on the 5-HT(5a) receptor due to the distribution of this receptor in the suprachiasmatic nucleus of the brain, which is implicated in the sleep-wake cycle. The PE extract inhibited [(3)H]lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) binding to the human 5-HT(5a) receptor (86% at 50 microg/ml) and the DCM extract inhibited LSD binding by 51%. Generation of an IC(50) curve for the PE extract produced a biphasic curve, thus GTP shift experiments were also performed. In the absence of GTP, the competition curve was biphasic (two affinity sites) with an IC(50) of 15.7 ng/ml for the high-affinity state and 27.7 microg/ml for the low-affinity state. The addition of GTP (100 microM) resulted in a right-hand shift of the binding curve with an IC(50) of 11.4 microg/ml. Valerenic acid, the active constituent of both extracts, had an IC(50) of 17.2 microM. These results indicate that valerian and valerenic acid are new partial agonists of the 5-HT(5a) receptor.

I can't find out what valerian's activity at 5HT2a receptors is like, but anecdotal reports say that it just "calms the mind", rather than blocking the trip in any way. Looks like a winner!

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