What is the soil like where Trichocereus grows in the Andes?

[Quixote]

Well, just wondering if any of you have visited the places in South America where Trichocereus grows in the wild, and if you could tell me a bit about how the soil is like there? The idea of course would be to try to mix something similar for my potted friends

(I'm not saying all kinds of other soil mixtures wouldn't work as well, but it would be cool to have them grow in something they might remember from their old ancestral home..)

[Philocacti]

Trichocereus cacti grow in an area not that far from the equator and consequently are not used to the duration of light found in more temperate summers. The seedlings will respond well to 12-14 hours of light. It is important to remember that cacti breath at night and then store the Co2 in the form of acids for use in photosynthesis during the day, they do not do well with the longer periods of light that other plants thrive in. The dark period must be somewhat cool as well being in the mid 60s for an ideal. Trichocereus cacti may receive too much light in temperate zones when placed in a full sun position particularly at high elevations, in these cases they should be placed in partial sun locations.

In nature the Trichocereus cacti grow in a soil rich in trace elements such as calcium, copper, iron, manganese and magnesium many of which play key roles in enzymatic pathways and function, thus these trace elements can be important factors in alkaloid biosynthesis. Excellent sources of trace minerals include seaweed preparations, chelated compounds and complete fertilizers such as the aforementioned Peters 20:20:20. Dolomite limestone is rich in both Ca and Mg and is a good ingredient in cactus mixes. Hard water will provide enough Ca for growth but more calcium may be needed for optimum growth. Bone meal is is great organic fertilizer for cacti that provides Ca, P and often N as well.

Ideal concentrations of nutrients and hormones

Clorenchyma levels of nutrients in some cacti species compared to an agronomic mean average from Biology of Agaves and Cacti by P.S. Nobel

Table 1A

A B C D E

N 1.52% 1.67% 1.62% 2% 2-3% up to 4-5%

P 3820ppm 1670ppm 1700ppm 3000ppm 0.2-0.5% up to1%

K 1.02% 1.63% 1.95% 2% 1.25-3%

Na 92ppm 215ppm 315ppm 1000ppm NA

Ca 1.92% 5.92% 4.62% 2% 0.5-2%

Mg 0.58% 0.78% 0.62% 0.7% 0,2-0.5%

Mn 134ppm 478ppm 122ppm 70ppm 20-100ppm

Cu 3ppm 14ppm 9ppm 8ppm 2-10ppm

Zn 33ppm 44ppm 22ppm 40ppm 15-50ppm

Fe 178ppm 203ppm 161ppm 150ppm 50-100ppm

B 54ppm 44ppm 62ppm 30ppm 10-50ppm

A-Coryphantha vivipara

B-Trichocereus chilensis

C-Ferrocactus acanthodes

D-Agronomic mean

E- Dry weight of nutrient levels from average plant material ( from Hydroponics B. Jones 97)

The tables above list tissue levels of nutrients in a non-entheogenic Trichocereus cactus T. chilensis. While the concentrations of nutrients in other Trichocereus may be different it is likely that such a difference isnt too great. It is noteworthy that some nutrients increase gradually over time, while others decrease, so age has a lot to do with nutrient levels and likely alkaloidal content reflects this as well. The other columns in bold show averages of nutrient concentrations from agricultural plants. While sodium (Na) levels in the cacti tend to be considerably lower than the average other minerals such as iron (Fe) tend to be slightly higher than average. While most macro and micro minerals fall in the normal range for plants calcium (Ca), and mangenese (Mn) have concentrations above the average. It seems that Ca levels in cacti tend to be considerably higher than the average level in leafy plants while the high Mn and copper (Cu) concentrations in T. chilensis do not seem to be reflected in the other cacti species. Cu and Mn do play roles in enzymatic function and while the higher concentrations are still extremely low it would be wise to ensure the cacti get these elements. Organic fertilizers and amendments such as granite dust, low sodium seaweed and fish preparations tend to be good sources of trace elements. by Archaea

http://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/drugs/nansnook3c/tek/TrichocereusGrowersGuidemod.html

I thought this might be helpful

Edited January 18, 2014 by Philocacti

[Quixote]

Thank you for the good info, but I am also thinking about the soil composition, that is, the look and feel of it. Is it clay-like? Sandy? Loamy? Compact or fluffy? Heavy or light? Black, brown, red, grey, white ? What does it feel like in the hand?

[Philocacti]

I have no clue and I'm also interested as well.

Are you planing to make a soil mix to mimic its natural habitat?

[Quixote]

I have no clue and I'm also interested as well.

Are you planing to make a soil mix to mimic its natural habitat?

I would like to, but I think it would be difficult to find the ingredients here in North Europe. Still, it might be possible to mix together something very similar, if not exactly the same.

[naja naja]

Man, I don't know if it's similar. But that ultra fertile red dirt from carnarvon grows a damn fine cacti garden aswell as many other tropicals. Like I said, I don't know if it's similar, but damn I'd pay for truckloads of that if I could.

[gtarman]

From what I hear Zelly say, mineralistic seems to be the way to describe it in a word.

[2XB]

From what I hear Zelly say, mineralistic seems to be the way to describe it in a word.

Mineralistic has a nice ring to it

[incognito]

Red soil is mineralistic

[prier]

Andrew reckons, there's a lot of fine stuff and a lot of really big stuff. dumb description. it has a low clay content but it doesn't fall apart like sand. pasacana country.
it certainly drains well, if you piss on it, it goes straight in...

[naja naja]

exactly how I'd descibe carnavon and it's weird too, tiny oasis in a desert area.

[Quixote]

I reckon that in the mountains, much of the soil is alluvial, broken down rocks.

Found this from the Encyclopedia Britannica:

North of 37° S the Atacama Desert is covered with heavily eroded desertic soils that are low in moisture and organic material and high in mineral salts. This soil type, with few differences, extends along the Cordillera Occidental to north of Peru.

http://global.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/23692/Andes-Mountains/41650/Soils

Likely this is what we should be aiming for... not much to go by though.

Here is some info about the soils in Equador, but I don't understand many of the technical terms, such as 'Durustoll':

Soils

The extremely variable topography of the country is associated with a complex mosaic of soils.

The Coastal littoral, located between the Pacific Ocean and the western Andes possesses an abundance of hydromorphic soils particularly in the well-watered parts, which have moderate to low drainage, and moderate fertility. It contains soils derived from deposits of diverse origins influenced by volcanic activity of the Andes, aeolian transport of volcanic ashes and alluvial deposits, all subjected to intense weathering.

In the temperate Andean ecozone (see below under ecozones), soils vary somewhat depending upon rainfall. It should be noted that classification of Andean soils is notoriously complex; details and equivalencies between systems of classification are available (Quantin, 1986; FAO, 2001; FAO-CSIC, 2002). The portion of the temperate area frequently classified as a low montane spiniferous steppe, with rainfall of less than 500 mm includes the following soils (León-Velarde and Izquierdo, 1993): (a) Durandept, sandy loams, with a calcareous layer located above a duripan placed at a depth of 70 cm - these are soils that if irrigated support a variety of annual crops, lucerne, oats and Kikuyu grass; (b ) Durustoll, generally located on slopes, over fine ashes and also with an underlying duripan; © Eutrandept, loamy soils with very fine ash, low water retention, pH 7; and lastly (d) Torripsamment, very sandy soils, with less than 1 percent organic matter and pH 8. Farms surveyed in this area by Ramírez et al. (1996) had soils with pH 5.2 to 6.7, acidity increasing with altitude, generally low in organic matter (OM), and always very low P (< 4 ppm). When rainfall increases to 500-1,000 mm, the zone is classified as low montane dry forest, and includes very variable soils, most frequently derived from volcanic ashes. These are clayey loams, black soils, that support productive stands of lucerne if irrigated. The low montane humid forest zone is encountered in areas with 1,000 to 2,000 mm, and has similar soils to the previous one.

http://www.fao.org/ag/agp/AGPC/doc/Counprof/Ecuador/ecuador.htm#solis

It does seem though that volcanic ash plays a significant part in these soils. I wish I could get my hands on some of that! But not a volcano in sight..

Also, loam is sand, silt and clay. I don't see many talking about putting silt and clay in their mixes, but perhaps it would be a great idea. As long as we maintain drainage of course.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Quixote

[naja naja]

I notice cacti love rock dust. As do ephedra plants

[franky]

One thing to remember is native soils completely change once they enter a pot, afaik the total AFP goes wayy down something to conaider