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It wasnt me, i didnt do it. We have all been there. Rarely when you catch somebody out with a lie, they cover or even yourself will use a secondary lie to cover the truth. I have a mate who lies to his wife. He used to brief me sometimes of how to cover his story, he was working late or stuck in traffic. At one stage he must of only when i was there had 20 lies apon lies. And for no reason, there i was implicated. Why couldnt he just tell his wife that he was at the pub. Because she or he couldnt handle the truth. I suppose he was creating an illuson, decieving, manipulating, sometimes i know he would start to believe his own lies. For my friend the lies he created had become part of his life. He was happilly living a lie, and so was she.

So what is the truth? Why does it have such signifigance when the whole world is running a systematic scheme thats natural and effective. Its a basic question and of course we do often tell the truth, but where can you find truth in its purity. Does it exist or am i being too metaphorical. From a young age, kids are identified as of higher intelligence when they in a group situation perform a lie on the candy jar lie test. These kids grow up and develop into higher roles that suit that skill. Managers and salesmen, lawyers and politicians. Look at socially for example. People are crafty, if you had the time to disect people, you would find limited truth. Socially lying is needed. When i saw that my ex girlfriend from 3 years ago had put on 50kgs, was i meant to say "hi mandy, gees you have gotten fat", that would be hurtful and insensitive. I said of course that it was great to see her and so on. So the problem with truth is that, people in general cannot handle the truth.

Everything that we take as normal is really a big big lie. Take religion, take politics, take astrology, aliens and spirituality, the universe, advertising, make up, what we need, what we see, what we hear and say, actually if i look around i cant see anything with my own eyes here and now that isnt not the truth besides its being there physically. Religion i know is a touchy truth, but as far as i know from a purely real sense, it hasnt been proved. Faith cannot be proved, but is faith and truth the same. I suppose this isnt groundbreaking stuff here just a casual observation. In a sense both a lie and a truth have the same equal and opposite meanings. Are we really feeling better about being open and honest or are you lying to yourself as well. But im off on a bit of a tangent so i will stop there.

But i suppose what i want is, where can i find it. Really. In a rainbow, a beer, a dream, a story, a friend. Somebody tell me the truth, does it exist, if i accidentally reversed ito a ferrari and nobody saw, is leaving a note really an intelligent thing to do. Does that make me a better person. How does it feel, being poor to poor to affort repairs, do you own up or go. Probably some will write and some will flee. I reckon that the guy who saves 5000 dollars might not be "truthful" but absolutely nobody is truthful n real life so why pick and choose what your truth is meant to be. I probably mistrust the honest people more. They have the most to lose. Logically the guy who saved $5000 is not honest but he is probably smarter. Which is why dobbing and telling the truth is a general sign of weakness in most group situations. Most people dob because they cant keep secrets, most people tell the truth when caught out red handed.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Truth, truth, truth. You tell me the truth and ill do my best to tell to tell you my version of mine. I didnt do it, wasnt there, dont know nothing.

The truth. Very powerful but simply a 5 letter word.

.

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Hi Santiago i think you are making two fairly unrelated observations, both of which are interesting but should be kept separate when drilling down into the nuts and bolts.

There is conventional truth which is actually not truth but rather the duality of truth and lies in social situations and is couched in human morality. Truth and lies in this context is like whether you should tell you ex-gf she ate too many burgers in three years.

Then there is, I suppose, silent truth which cannot be "proved" which is in religions the sense of knowing the character of one's self and of reality and/or for scientists I guess physical universal laws like gravity that can be "proved". For the religious, that truth is an abstract concept that encompasses the first shallow moralistic duality of "truth" and "lies" and all other dualities within existence. Or in the scientific case a proven experiential analysis that demonstrates the fundamental physical basis of reality that allows moral concepts of "truth and lies" to manifest. As in gravity will keep your ex-gf on the ground even if she stops eating so many burgers.

So yes, I definitely believe in Truth as a perceptual reality in all of its forms.

But that does not necessarily mean, however, that I believe every truth is fundamentally correct.

That is the beautiful paradox.

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You've raised deep questions and they deserve a deep answer that I don't have the energy to give right now. But I think before the philosophy gets too deep that a distinction must be raised between subjective and objective truths. When the terms are specifically defined, truth becomes absolute. "Were you at the pub at 6pm?" is a yes or no question. "Does true love exist?" is not, because the terms are subjective and ill defined

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some truth is beyond us, and if we're unable grasp it ourselves then obviously we're likewise unable to describe it.

that's why i don't accept that religion is truth. religion is a finger pointing. you know when you try to point a dog towards something but it just stares at your finger?

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Churches have hidden the real truth about god. Yes they do preach forgiveness love alms etc but

rarely exersise it . Jesus was about love sharing and most of all that we all have a soul which is a

truth most humans cant accept .With faith comes great pain and great confusion but this is purely

about how churches have relayed the word of god . I used to get really angry at the bible and its meanings

but it is a book with remarkable poetry and wise fables and important life rules .Not a scientific document

just a book . Look to your heart for the truth and meditate with your mind . Help and offer alms ( not always

money, alms can be just helping your neighbor). The truth to our modern society is that no one cares anymore

really ask yourself whats your price anyone can be bought. Its when you let go of these worldly possessions

and value your friends and family as your true wealth.The truth is all you need is love and a place to grow

your simple crops for your simple tastes . life was meant to be a nomadic journey through this amazing planet

marveling at the natural wonders of the world . But some where we got civilized and breed into a plague and

the truth is would you trade civilization for the nature of the world .I.E kill every human and let nature take her coarse

so it does not get ruined by our wasteful ways .

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1=1

A piece of string is twice half its length

This sentence contains forty four characters

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fat per mission -
good
.. by in the truth

on a way out lie !

Edited by mysubtleascention

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@ mysubtleascention: I've been meaning to ask what the deal with these posts is whenever I see them. They all seem to be in the same kind of crytpic format...it befuddles me :wacko:

post-7646-0-70116000-1388070213_thumb.jp

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I think it is healthy to ponder the in-ponderables, however I don't believe that there is 'a' truth.

Only yours.

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The Truth. A three letter word & a five letter word. English language.

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Whatever you believe, is what is.

One day I believed I could get a drink of water from the tap without getting up from bed, so I rolled over on my belly and slid off my bed, travelling the hallway via levitation to the dining room. I saw the feet of my parents greeting me through the doorway and the voice from above roared."What the hell do you think you are doing. Get up and get back to bed now" I looked up at their angry/confused faces and immediately started back for my bedroom.

That Day, I believed without a doubt in my mind, that it was possible. I had set my intention, imagined the outcome, tasted the water already on my lips.

I can say that what happened is true and real and a majority of others who were not there would say I am a liar because that would defy the laws of gravity.

Conclusion

I can have my own personal truths/beliefs and will experience life according to these

and I can also subscribe to others truths/beliefs.

The truth is, I have a choice in what I believe to be true.

Example:-

1 group of people believe that fire burns the flesh and therefore get burnt by the fire,

True?

Another group believe in fire walking as a possibility and therefore do not get their flesh burnt by the fire,

True?

Another example:-

1 man lies to his wife as to his whereabouts but she believes this to be truth and reacts accordingly.

Similarly another man is faith full to his wife yet she believes otherwise and acts accordingly.

The truth is always within each person. The real question is "Does that truth serve or destroy him?"

Is that dominant thought/belief/truth/memory constructive or destructive to a particular desired outcome.

The majority rules, on most things we accept as truth ( Mass Mind Limitations), yet this does not mean that a truth can not be changed, even on a large scale.

eg The Earth was flat and now it is round? True?

eg He was a cheater and now he is faith full?

eg A person is given a tablet in an experiment and is then told that it was pure arsenic and that they will die, guaranteed, within the day.

The person then curls up and dies, but the tablet was just sugar. True? Just as the placebo effect works 80% of the time.

Good question Santiago. may we all question our own truths/beliefs and desired outcomes.

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she looks az if butter -

would you not melt

.. in her

mouth !

I see. Well based on that, my new hypothesis is that you're a law enforcement bot designed to spit out randomized text samples to sound like stoner-rambling in the hopes of gaining a higher post count and trusted member status which will then be leveraged to attempt to glean information about what dangerous hardcore druggos we all secretly are...really ASIO, I expected more :rolleyes::P

mysubtleascention -

a cop bot

.. is

unrelatedword !

:lol:

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she looks az if butter -

would you not melt

.. in her

mouth !

The truth is that was pretty hot.

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edit for peace and harmony

Edited by Bigred
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true joker -
ace in a hole
.. the king

knave of hearts queen !

Edited by mysubtleascention

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Another example:-

1 man lies to his wife as to his whereabouts but she believes this to be truth and reacts accordingly.

Similarly another man is faith full to his wife yet she believes otherwise and acts accordingly.

It's about values and consequences.

If the one partner values the truth that they have asked for, and is content, but subsequently finds out their partner has been lying, then what? Their world and trust is shattered. They will likely never trust their partner again. If the partner values their relationship, they should stop. They may love their partner, which to them is the bigger truth. But their partners truth is important too.

If the second person can never trust their partner it may be that they have been lied to in the past. If their partner cannot persuade them they are being truthful, then their relationship will always be compromised.

Truth in both these situations is important because of the consequences. Because it is valued.

If truth is not valued, it is irrelevant.

Truth is reality, in another word. Sometimes the reality is too big for us to comprehend, therefore we cannot ever see the truth. Simple truths are tied to bigger truths, and a multitude of truths. A lie in this may have consequences. But it may be irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Or it may be simple confusion.

If we value reality, we value the truth.

Logically the guy who saved $5000 is not honest but he is probably smarter. Which is why dobbing and telling the truth is a general sign of weakness in most group situations. Most people dob because they cant keep secrets, most people tell the truth when caught out red handed.

Logically, the guy who saved $5000 may not be smarter. Just because someone can steal (or evade responsibility for) $5000 worth of material wealth, does not make them smart. If you spend your entire existence counting from 1 to 5 trillion by acquiring material goods, does that make you smart? You might be missing out on some pretty interesting, fun stuff. Again, it's what you value. Dodging $5000 from someone who can afford a ferrari is not a big deal, IMHO. Seriously, the person who owns a ferrari is a bean counter, nothing more. They'll get more beans. But taking $5 from a homeless person would be reprehensible. But I think everyone except for the bean counter would agree with my logic, because let's face it, bean counters don't like to share. So fuck them. They're on their own, as far as I see it.

Like Robin Hood, evading fines and taxes, avoiding giving more to the rich while giving to (or sharing with) the poor is possibly the sign of someone who values community over individualism. The person who avoids paying $5000 to the rich is a hero, in my opinion :innocent_n:

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If you had of asked me when I was 8yo I would have said something like emotions speak the truth..

emotions also hide the truth behind fear.

Emotions are the water that surrounds us in "How we feel about the world"

If you keep splashing the water the heart/love/truth is difficult to hear.

Back then I was rudely shocked into the "truth" as I perceived it.

My truth realization was horrible!

It related to this strange "game of love" people said they were playing.

I saw it as a game of lies.

I couldn't understand (and still cant) why people would subscribe to this false love instead of offering Agape Love freely?!

I chose to accept nothing less!

But sadly I found myself to be an alien in this feeling.

So I removed myself from any potential social situations believing that people were playing this game of lies with the belief they would find love, and watch as they drain all the joy from one another.

At 8yo I even refused to speak to anyone for most of the time unless I had to.

When I started working it was in a shed by myself mostly.

That's given me a lot of to think about this core issue, and as best as I can see;

If I can keep still the turbulent waves of emotions in my world and open my heart I seem to speak openly and honestly and often tho not all ways receive the same in return from other people.

In this state I can also receive answers to questions from within, and even have "conversations" with whatever-you-like-to-call-it..

I feel very awkward when I lie and get the same feeling when lied to, even if only a little white social lie!

I understand the need for social grace, and I have very little of that at times.

This is my truth.

Unconditional forgiveness and love.

I admit that even I can fail at that sometimes.. :devil::crux::innocent_n:

Edited by MikeyMagic
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I owe you a apology mickey magic I read your post (the one with all the silent WTF's ) and i kinda mistaken you for this member

who posts random crap . So putting the olive branch out and hope you accept my apology . sending you good vibes

Bigred

true joker -
ace in a hole
.. the king

knave of hearts queen !

group -
one night stand
.. mind shift

sentenced !

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foxy asterix might -
is right
.. dominatrix

effect !

Edited by mysubtleascention
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intoxicated -
thinking the rat
.. cheshire

eyepiece gallantry !

Edited by mysubtleascention

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