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The Corroboree
Heretic

Subs or Azures ???

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I have read in books by Stamets and others speculating that Azures are a recently evolved species that showed up in the late 1980s in the coastal hinterland regions of the USA Pacific NW , just behind the beach dunes , etc ...

Which got me to wonder about the species known to me since the early 1970s that is found in the coastal dune forests of Victoria , just behind the beaches ...

It is easy to imagine the Victorian coastal species finding its way to the U.S Pacific NW , for example , by spores unwittingly carried by back by visiting American surfers , or any number of other methods .

Azures are reported to be exceptionally potent - as are the Vic coastal shrooms that I recall ...

As soon as I read about Azures and their habitat I was reminded of the Vic coastal species - I know of areas where they grow in the dune scrub bordering beaches , almost on the beaches .

I suspect that the American Azures may in fact be the Victorian coastal species , [ which I also suspect are closely related to subs ] .

I am wondering if any mycologists out there can confirm or refute my hypothesis ???

Edited by Heretic

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It was concluded that the type of grass that was associated with Ps azurescens in one location was an introduced species from the Baltic and it was loosely theorized that perhaps it was an import from there.

But I doubt azurescens like those found at Astoria or in other areas of Oregon are a new species that appeared in the 1980s there. I say this because if you look at the cystidial forms of azurescens and north western USA cyanescens, as well as the main substrate preference for both being decaying fresh hardwood chips, the macroscopic similarities between the two - both very white stipe flesh unlike subaeruginosa which has grey flecking on the stipe and the fact that both azurescens and north western cyanescens stain an unusual azure blue colour very much unlike subaeruginosa, the conclusion is that azurescens is very closely related to native north western Ps cyanescens.

Indole measurements of Ps azurescens are questionable and published data in the case of Ps arcana and an unpublished thesis with strong research protocols in the case of Ps subaeruginosa has shown that specimens of these two species contain indole contents that exceed those found in azurescens.

Further indole studies in Ps bohemica, Zapotecorum and Aucklandii are lacking and each is reputed to be highly potent.

I would say that if you found an active mushroom growing in sand dune grass on the coast of Australia then it would be a highly unusual environment for a mushroom to grow in (given that azurescen's common and preferred habitat is actually wood chip gardens and wood debris and that it is more likely a new species, an odd variant of subaeruginosa most likely.

direct seabound trade from Oregon or the Baltic so Victoria is also very unlikely.

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ZPG - interesting post ; I agree that Azures are unlikely to be a recent spontaneous evolutionary species [ as suggested by Stamets ] .

More likely , I suspect , is that shrooms have an ability to travel and colonize new localities

The Victorian coastal species grows on the litter of the coastal scrub , and appears from Autumn - Spring when the weather becomes cold and wet . Seems to be a case of the colder and wetter , the better for this species .

My literature is quite dated - the Baltic grass notion was unknown to me , but makes sense .

This mushroom is well known to the locals in the areas where it occurs . But I have no idea of it's true identity ...

Would be interesting to learn more .

[ it can be dynamite , esp the pins ... but also subjectively variable at times . ]

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There was a strange psilo that only grew in the coastal forest around Punakiki in southern NZ. No one could work out what it was.

a new species is always a possibility.

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On phillip island i found what i assumed to be subs, growing right next to the ocean (<10m away from the high tide mark), both in sand dune/native coastal style environments and an artificially planted eucalypt/grassy area (also very close to the ocean).

The former were wide and round, orangeish caps and seemed to lack spores, very white stems. The latter were yellow/golden (though not shiny gold like i have seen) and more goblin hat shaped, like semilinceata. I have numerous pix of both kinds on a different computer, will attempt to find later.

edit: i should note these (three) kinds were within 2km of each other on the same coastline.

Oh i just remembered, near the first ones (orange), i found a rabbit run leading into some thick coastal shrubs. I crawled through, and inside was a dome of bushes, with enough room to sit in there without hitting one's head. Pertinently, the ground inside this hidden shrub-room was covered in yet another kind of psilocybe. These ones had milky white stems (like ghost) and triangular, brown caps. They stained BLUE, like super duper.

As clear as an azure sky of deepest summer.

Edited by Frank leDank

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Azurescence absolutely grows in the grass and sand, in The Astoria area.

There are even signs....."No mushroom picking"

And cops looking for out of state hippy mobiles, driving through Warrenton .

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Sure they absolutely do but their preferred habitat is lignious debris.

My point was more that its unlikely that a satelitte colony of azurescens would randomly appear on the other side of the world, in a grassy coastal environment likely with very different climatic conditions and within almost certainly a different species of grass.

they would be more likely to turn up without direct human intent in hardwood bark chips or under hardwood trees introduced from north west USA.

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Unlikely they would appear clear across the world,

Without a little help from their friends.....These kind of fungi, also LOVE straw

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