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Hopping Eagle

I have a question ....

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.... why are there so many angry people in the world.

Where I currently reside in Broome is a winterland sunny paradise high on the list of tourists- from backpackers to Ma & Pa Kettle doing the round Aus. caravan trip.

In the shop where I work some of the travellers are so angry - why - they are ones on holidays - time should be an abstract concept to them by they've trecked across this vast continent, island country

(actually some of locals can be pretty narcy too) - anyway the analogy still stands.

I feel like putting a sign up in the front of the shop saying, " Chill out, your on holidays man & I have seriously depleted dopamine,noradrenalin & serotonin levels so be nice or you may end up with a pen thru the forehead,"

Oh no the anger rubs off

I have said enough

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apart from all that gibberish I would be interested in peoples points of view regarding why there are angry people everywhere - does it really hurt that much to not be obnoxious? It takes s concerted effort to remain in a constant of anger - it takes no energy at all to appreciate a beautiful sunset.

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I believe our work, lifestyles and diet are depleting dopamine and elevating adrenaline on an epidemic basis. A drop in dopamine while adrenaline levels are high is the usual cause of rage, and if the media is to believe, we have a real rage problem. This starts with our kids. The steady increase in uncontrollably raging kids is shocking and should wake us up to what is goign to happen when they all grow up. It certainly won't get any better.

The best way to keep people from getting angry or from falling into a fit of rage is to keep their dopamine levels high. obviously this is not feasible while standing behind the counter of a shop, but keepign this cpncept in mind there is still a lot you can do.

Whiloe driving for example, it is a simply thing like cutting someone off that cuases the other person to rage. Cutting someone off is a minor thing, but it is a show of disrespect. eg, "I didn't see you (you are too insignificant to notice)", or "I did see you but I didn't care."

This is putting the other person down and thus causes an instant drop in dopamine.

In a shop, if you ignore a person for too long (after all, you are busy), they feel disrespected and their dopamine drops.

Also, while Ma & Pa Kettle are on holidays, they don't get away from each other. Ma Kettel has low dopamine cos her life isn't going anywhere and she isn't ebing rewarded enough (in her eyes). So she takes her low dopamine out on Pa Kettle by nagging and nagging. Poor Pa Kettel can't getaway from her cos they are on holidays, and no matter how much he tries, whatever he does simply isn't good enough for the nagging wife. His dopamine levels fall and fall, while his stress (adrenaline) rise and rise. So down the street they come and he pops into your shop. Something irrelevant irks him (eg: the colour of your shirt) and he takes his low dopamine levels out on you.

As you can see, low dopamine levels propagate themselves from person to person (and even downto the dog that gets kicked by the lowest member of the family/work pecking order). This process is almost as nasty as an infectious disease.

But the reverse is infectious too. Laughter and success drag people along just as grumpiness, laziness and failure do. And everyone can theoretically have his/her particular state under control if they are aware of it. Its not easy. But the rewards will be all around you.

Please don't ask too many questions about this. I am in the process of building a site elaborating on this and many other easy to understand neurochemistry concepts. Should only be a few weeks before I finish.

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That sounds great Torsten,I cant wait.

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Totally agree with the theory - just spleen venting & the vents are now clean.

I actually try to be consistently in a positive frame of mind but at times I can feel them draining my energy - is particularly noticeable in the demeanour of people when my energy & neurochemical levels are low after a big night - as you said like attracts like & it is possible to turn it around with something like - have a nice afternoon - it can indeed work wonders

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There's another cause for aggression and violence as well.

The ONLY legal pleasure drug in Western Society is Alcohol.

There is a definite connection between alcohol and violence.

It may make you feel nice and relaxed at first, but the more you get into it, the more tolerance you build up and you have to drink more.

Now persons coming off alcohol are very irritated and violent. Many get more violent when on alcohol.

Alcohol has been around as a pleasure drug for 1000s of years, you can't ban it, it's just to easy to make.

Alcohol is spread right across society in all different levels.

I believe it was very popular at times of the roman empire. Now look how violent these people were. Crucifixion and gladiator games were the hit of the day. Totally disgusting...

I belive the greeks must have used other drugs as well or probably more than alcohol.

While there was also plenty of bloodshed in ancient greek culture, they had a whole world of mysticism, which was very likely drug-inspired.

Look at the mysticism of the Romans: Romulus and remus, that's about it.

You're a hero if you can put your arm into a bucket full of fire and burn it off. Now that's really cool.

(My god, i'm rambling)

Believe me, I've been an alcoholic for many years and am just trying for the umpteenth time to kick it.

But this time I'm pretty certain.

A regular alcohol drinker spends more time on a hangover than being drunk.

Why is alcohol so popular?

Because it's the only legal drug.

If authorities gave people a choice, there would be less alcoholics.

Because why, if you had a choice, would you choose one of the most inferior drugs there are...?

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Gom, I think you will find that alcohol violence is directly linked to dopamine somehow. I don't understand how, but I know that I only get aggressive on alcohol when my dopamine levels aren't up to scratch. if I know that I am dopamine borderline and feel the need to have a drink, then I take tyrosine beforehand and this alleviates it. Doesn't work when dopamine is real low though.

There is a distinct difference between happy drunks and edgy/violent drunks. Two completely different personalities. I have been both!!! But never in the same phase of my life.

Alcohol also lowers inhibitions such as the protocols that stop us from hitting people whenever we get the urge. So a person may b quite stable while sober due to his protocols, but when the alcohol hits it doesn't take much to push him over the edge.

Compare the emotional process and the external perception of alcohol violence with that of rage, anger and frustration and you will see the glaringly obvious similarities.

As I said, it is in epidemic proportions.

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Perhaps there is a direct link between alcohol and dopamine deplention.

The fact is that alcohol is responsible for limitless violence and even killings.

Re the "happy drunks"...

yes I remember, it used to make me happy like 30 years ago, when my girlfriend came around and we walked to the bottleshop and back to get 1 bottle of wine which we then drank while we had sex. That came closest to being a happy drunk.

During the past 20 years whenever I went on a drinking spell doing all sorts of things on holidays and stuff, yes there was some happiness sometimes but always with a real negative feeling as a background.

Alcohol is the total ego-drug. It blows up people's egos enormously, in contrast to psychedelics for example which can dissolve the ego and bring peace.

Yes I agree, alcoholism has reached plague proportions and we definitely need LEGAL alternatives, even cannabis is a way more positive drug.

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I think that basic frustration, and the spiralling social loop caused by anger and negativity are a big part of what fuels many ppls seething tempers ( as well as dopamine depletion...before I started taking tyrosine I had the filthiest temper and became expert at plastering holes in walls and aiming inanimate objects away from ppl ) Lifestyle is it.

In Western society we have more choice immediately available to us than there were say 20 years ago. We may have had a lot more choice than we realised back then, but now there is also the pressure to make those choices. This applies not just to lifestyle, but to the stimulii involved in everyday life which affects our moods

Traffic laws, for example, are more complicated than they were back then. And there is more traffic. So a morning drive to work now requires more thought and processing and difficulties than it used to. Road rage was some kind of bizarre rumour from those crazy Americans back then, and now its an accepted term in local news and conversation.

Multiply that by 100 for just about evey facet of daily life ( health care, working conditions etc )and pack a bunch of ppl tighter than tissues in a kleenex box and you have a city full of overstimulated and possibly confused ppl trying to navigate the most basic tides of their existence before they even get to the big issues.

Consumerism offers us more choice too. And along with it comes the rather subversive pressure to take part in its faddishness rather than to question whether the choices they offer are worth buying into in the first place. You work harder to buy a new DVD/ vehicle/ house, so you're more stressed. Then you spend about a month going through catalogues etc to find out if you can afford all the features you have researched so painstakingly. More stress. But so goddamn what if you don't bother making the choice in the first place. Who amongst your friends really cares if they have to drive ten extra minutes to your place because you live in a more or less desirable suburb?

This isn't meant to sound anti-consumerist, or imply that a reversion to an alleedly simpler lifestyle is the solution to the worlds problems. But I have noticed that most ppl simply don't like thinking, it seems to get their backs right up. And following on from that, the extra choices we are faced with, and the amount of subsequent procesing required might just explain the wall of sheer fury I encounter every time I enter a major city

Maybe there's an optimum level of intellectual processing- too little choice and we rebel ( fair enough too ) too much and ppl just retreat into their shells and snap at the outside world when it intrudes. I wonder if anyone's done studies on rats? wink.gif

Negativity spirals and loops into feedback of course. If no-one's been nice to you all day then by the end of it you're probably not going to feel like saying thanks and smiling at the person who filled your car with petrol.... having had countless jobs behind counters ( including one at the local uni which was just about the best job I've had ever except this one ) I can honestly say I really enjoyed seeing ppl walk away smiling knowing they'd probably pass the favour onto the next person they saw. It cure made up for the lousy pay and conditions and somewhat restored my faith in human nature

Cutting someone off is a minor thing

Not when you're on a bike, a pushie or a horse. It's life threatening, and I have nil sympathy for ppl who nearly kill me or my mates and then take it lightly, or conclude we're unreasonable & aggressive individuals when we respond. Sometimes road rage is just the ticket wink.gif

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Originally posted by Darklight:

I think that basic frustration, and the spiralling social loop caused by anger and negativity are a big part of what fuels many ppls seething tempers ( as well as dopamine depletion...

what you separate into two different aspects is actually one and the same.

frustration = drop in dopamine

anger = drop of dopamine

negativity = lack of dopamine (or serotonin)

thanks for making my point for me wink.gif

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i remember having lots of alcohol to drink once, it was at a wedding so there was none of my usual smoke involved (which had always gone hand in hand with drinking) and it was during the only real traumatic time in my life. suffice to say the night ended with police and ambuli. this gave me a healthy disrespect for alcohol and to this day i've not been game to overdo it ever again.

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I wasn't actually trying to contradict Torsten, just trying to add onto his dopamine thesis...

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My gnome recieved a valuble lesson recently by our psilocybin friends. In this lesson he relised that all things worth while in life are symetrical. He than relised that he had a major problem in hes life of trying to put everthing neatly into box,s "relisation" circular things dont fit into box,s. my point here is that if we could put everbody into a nice neat little "be nice box" than nice would become less important and mundane. so as with all things you need these nasty/angry/ not nice people to highlight the nice people. nothing new i know (ying and yang) but hey its just my two cents. Q? whats the one thing that dosnt come in a box.

Answer: Nature

if only people could be free to learn these lessons from our natural friends the world would be a much better place.

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