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gtarman

White sapote leaf....

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Hey guys.

Anybody have any experience with using the leaves of white sapote (Casimiroa edulis)?

From what I hear they may have hypnotic, sedative and oneirogen qualities, but there is next to nothing out there regarding it's use so I'm not sure if it's safe to try or what methods of ingestion to try should I go ahead with it. I have a tree that I've had to prune a little so I've got a fair amount of leaf material currently drying out.

Just wondering if anybody has any knowledge or experience relating to it, or whether I'll have to boldly go where no ethnobot has gone before and risk poisoning myself or something :P

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I think it should okay Gtarman. I haven't tried myself yet but the woman I bought my plant from said she drank the tea often.

Supposedly it has all kinds of magical health benefits.

Just steer clear of the seeds, they are meant to be poisonous.

Think there was a bit of info on good ol' wikipedia.

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Yeah cool, I think I remember hearing that about the seeds. The tea I wasn't too worried about...but extracts and/or smoking I haven't really heard anything of.

But there's definitely gotta be something in them..I accidentally crushed one lightly while stripping from the stem and it was quite pungent.

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I think I heard that eating a few of the fruit can have the same effects.

Somehow I managed to stumble across a fruit at a market a few years ago (sold as a Cherimoya, so I thought it was a Cherimoya for years). Ate it, grew the seeds out (only one tree survived), and it's now planted out. I'm hoping it'll rejuvenate and grow happily - it's at the point now where the scales are balanced between harsher climate (windy spot, sun shock) and miles better soil - it just needs to tip into good growth and she'll be right. :)
Once it's growing well, I can do some experiments.

Edited by CβL
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So I drank the tea last night - this was my written experience of it:

Just about to drink a cup of tea from the leaf I harvested - after drying they didn't shrink much in size, as they didn't contain much water to start with, but a lot of oils I think. Kind of like bay leaves, sort of.

Anywho, I weighed up the harvest and there was about 5 grams of dried leaf. I weighed out 2 grams and chopped them up with a pair of scissors until they looked approximately tea-like. Put the 2 grams in a mug, poured in some boiled water that had been allowed to cool to about 80-90 deg C, and let steep for 10 minutes. Will let you know how it goes. If I die, I regret nothing except spending so much time at work.
=====
aroma/taste is about halfway between peppermint and freshly cut grass, and not in a bad way. not bitter at all
about 5 minutes after - noticing a slight looseness in my muscles, a releasing of tension
about 20 minutes in - i think this has definite sedative/hypnotic action. i feel really light and loose and easy, and mildy dreamy
roughly 45 minutes in...i feel really sleepy and relaxed
=====

It could have been placebo (I suppose there's always that risk), but if it was I don't care haha. It felt pretty nice.

Also, many people tend not to notice something's sedating effects to the extent that I do, just because most people are not as tightly wound as me mentally or physically, or as much of the time - I tend to be constantly tense and on high-alert as a baseline.

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Wooo :)

*blasts psychic growth promoting rays at sapote plant so i can try soon too*

..oh and i'm glad you didnt die Gtarman :)

Edited by Ceres
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^^ you don't really need all that much. You know how the leaves grow in groups of five off the one stem-thing? (botanical terminology fail)

You'll only need about two full sized groups of five (so a total of 10 single leaves/leaflets) to get 2 grams of dry material.

Some info I found from the interwebs about how it supposedly works and the history of it also:

The Aztecs made tea to extract the essence from the leaves, bark and seeds of the fruit. The tea was taken as a sedative to induce sleep and as a narcotic.

In 1893 the Mexican doctor, Jesus Sanchez identified the narcotic effects of casimiroa as casimirin, a type of alkaloid, glycoside.

EDIT: though despite what the Aztecs may have done, I'd still be wary of using the seeds.

Edited by gtarman

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^^ you don't really need all that much. You know how the leaves grow in groups of five off the one stem-thing? (botanical terminology fail)

You'll only need about two full sized groups of five (so a total of 10 single leaves/leaflets) to get 2 grams of dry material.

Cool!! Surely my wee plant could spare me two groups of five then :P

Do you see reason why it should be dried first?

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I heard of this before, but had reservations...

got a big casimiora tree in my yard, it never fruits because of shade, and competition with big eucalypts, so using the leaves would be, the only thing I could do.

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Cool!! Surely my wee plant could spare me two groups of five then :P

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

Do you see reason why it should be dried first?

I usually dry herbs as a form of standardization (because the moisuture content of fresh herbs and therefore the weight goes up and down throughout the day, making it hard to measure in e repeatable way) and because it usually makes it less bulky to consume. Plus, I have a feeling drying leaves makes them better for teas - my theory is that because the herb material contains no moisture of it's own, it interacts much more freely with the boiling water and is more likely to give it's active constituents up into solution. But who knows.

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PH, many varieties need cross pollination so maybe you just need to plant a few more?

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Hey, I found a bit of info on Casimiroa edulis (Syn. Lucuma salicifolia). Two of it's common names are 'sleep-inducing sapote' and 'drunken sapote'.

The fruit and the foliage contain methylhistamine, dimethylhistamine, rutin and scopoletin which is a tropane alkyloide.

Eating the fresh fruit or drinking a tea made from the foliage will increase the effects of alcohol. They are also consumed for their sedative and hypnotic effects. The tea is used in Mexican folk medicine for sleep disorders and to regulate and stimulate dreaming. The ashes of burnt seeds were ingested by the Aztecs as a sleeping agent.

'Cozticzapotl' the Aztec name for the plant has been interpreted as referring to Calea zacatechichi. The plant is used widely within it's distribution for it's effects today as it was thousands of years ago.

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you could be right, paradox, but none of the other tropical fruit trees do much either, sometimes they get small fruit, but than the fall of.

I don't like casimi what's it's name fruits anyway, so I am happy not to have fruits, hehehe, the previous owner planted the fruit trees...

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many varieties need cross pollination

And, greatly to my disappointment, I found out the variety of white sapote I have grown for years and waited patiently for fruit is indeed one of those varieties needing x pollination

Not gunna happen, for reasons of space/time

If there is recorded use of the leaves for anything medicinal or legally psychoactive I'd love to hear of it

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Does the same go for the black sapote leaves?

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probably not quarterflesh, despite the name they're totally unrelated species

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And, greatly to my disappointment, I found out the variety of white sapote I have grown for years and waited patiently for fruit is indeed one of those varieties needing x pollination

Not gunna happen, for reasons of space/time

If there is recorded use of the leaves for anything medicinal or legally psychoactive I'd love to hear of it

There is reportedly a long tradition of use as a sleep aid and sedative - one of it's traditional names literally translates as "sleep sapote"...it's been used medicinally by the Aztecs and other people's of the region for this purpose and others - there have been quite a few studies done on it's chemistry apparently, and some reports have it as being of some possible benefit to arthritics and diabetics. It's all out there, on the interwebs :wink:

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Looks like I'll be popping down to the local community garden for a cup of tea, there's a huge tree in full bloom :)

I collected plenty of fruits and have about 40 little fellas just starting to sprout in the last couple days. I guess mine are self fertile since it's the only tree around.

I wonder how leaves would go soaked in wine like a lotus flower, maybe a nice combo!

Thanks for all the valuable info guyz

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and here is a pic, so you know how this tree looks like!

but look fast as it might get banned soon, hehehe. :)

more pics available on demand.

post-70-0-92718400-1379304797_thumb.jpg

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