PIHKAL and Phloridzin

[DaNozz Direct]

 

 

 

I'ts aboot 6 pm, and I sit down at the computer, and check the http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.cgi?NewErowid Experience Vaults. Alot of Ecstasy, Mushrooms and Morning Glory vaults - but one of them, the most exotic chemical of the day seems to be http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php3?ID=15087MBDB.

Interesting vault, but I'm more interested in the phenethylamine side of things. See, I've been reading/studying PIHKAL for the past half week now, just sorta trying to absorb a bit of information. So I'm at http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online...pihkal128.shtmlMETHYL-J (the PIHKAL name for MBDB), getting pretty bored.

Now I dunno what happened, but I ended up at the http://www.alchemind.org/shulgin/index.htmAlchemind's Society's Ask Dr. Shulgin page, hearing some tosser ask some tosser question which he could have got from some tosser board, asking it to the fucking godfather of psychedelic phenethylamines. I remember reading Satori Blue's question here http://www.alchemind.org/shulgin/adsarchiv...rchiveindex.htmin the archives, but the only decent one I want to look at is http://www.alchemind.org/shulgin/adsarchive/tma.htmthe really complicated one, the one aboot trimethoxylated amphetamine derivatives.

So I'm thinking, this TMA-6 stuff sounds kinda cool. http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online...pihkal162.shtmlback into PIHKAL I delve, and am fairly borderline when I read the pretty empty report on it. I read about how Book II was supposed to be aboot easy to get chemicals, how aldehyde may one day be 1000$/g on the black market. And that it will be impossible to remove phloroglucinol from availability.

 

So now it's 3 am, and I'm trying to think of something to do. I remember reading in an http://www.mxnet.com.auMX that apples are more effective upon waking up than coffee. Baloney, I say, the "it's true" ain't always true - there isn't a Superman in every Seinfeld episode, http://www.eeggs.com/items/1139.htmlthere's 124 in 180 episodes. But I may as well http://google.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=apple+...rties&hc=0&hs=0take a look anyway.

Turns out information is hard to find, but I end up finding something - "The bark of the Apple tree is a tonic and a stimulant, bringing down the temperature in a fever, tightening the tissues and constricting distended blood vessels. The bark contains phlorizin" - Eh ? What's this we say ?

So http://www.genome.ad.jp/dbget-bin/www_bget...compound+C01604this site is telling me phlori(d?)zin looks like

this. But how close am I to finding out any solid information on dosages, or synthesis ?

I go back to do http://google.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=phlori...ulant&hc=0&hs=0another search, but this time, I find something. Something interesting. VERY interesting. The http://srd.yahoo.com/goo/phloridzin+stimul...ve/pihkal_part68th and last link, with a title http://www.flashback.se/archive/pihkal_part6%5b/URL[/url] . Now I'm thinking WHAT THE FUCK ? How did that get there ?

 

 

 

 

Turns out it was under my nose all along, since 6 pm - just 1 paragraph away. Here we go, to quote it all for ye of those who are too lazy to follow my links…

"But, it will be impossible to remove phloroglucinol from availability. It is available as a natural component in the free form, in sources as diverse as the cones of the Sequoia sempervirens (the coast redwood tree) and species of Camillia (that provides the leaves of our morning tea). And combined with a molecule of glucose in the form of its glucoside, it is called phlorin, and it is present in the discarded rinds of almost all citrus fruits as well as the resins from many of the Eucalyptus species. And one step yet further back into nature, there is a dihydrochalcone glucoside called phloridzin which practically drips out of all parts of the apple and pear trees except for the apple or pear itself. It, on base hydrolysis, gives phlorin, which on acid hydrolysis gives phloroglucinol, which when dissolved in methanol and sulfuric acid gives Q. Nature is indeed most bountiful."

I found that to be one of the craziest things I've seen this weekend. Either I need to get out more, or that's some pretty fluky stuff right there.

Here's some preparation information that I found…

"Phloridzin, phlorizin, or phloridzite (C21H24O10.2H2O), was discovered, in 1835, by De Koninck and Stas. It is a bitter glucosid which exists in the bark of the trunk and roots of the apple, pear, cherry, and plum trees. The fresh root-bark of the apple tree contains about 3 to 5 per cent, the leaves about 0.8 per cent of this principle, while the dry root-bark does not contain it. To prepare it, the fresh bark of the root of the apple tree is boiled for 2 hours in a quantity of water sufficient to cover it. This water is decanted off, and the boiling repeated with a second portion. This last decoction must be kept separate from the first. It commonly deposits in 24 hours a considerable quantity of granular crystals of phloridzin, which, when dissolved in distilled water and treated with animal charcoal, are rendered quite pure. Another process is to digest the fresh bark of the root in weak alcohol at about the temperature of 50° C. (122° F.), continuing the digestion for 8 or 10 hours. The greater part of the alcohol is then distilled off, and the residue set aside to crystallize. Purify as in the other process."

"---Dosages---Of infusion of the bark, 1 to 4 fluid ounces. Of phloridzin, 5 to 20 grains."

So if anyone is still reading this, has anyone tried to make a batch, or would be willing to ? I reckon the making of a batch would complete this whole freaky cyclic research thing that's going on. That's my tale for the night.

 

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As if I was going to get the HTML first go…

[This message has been edited by DaNozz Direct (edited 03 June 2002).]

[waterdragon]

well i just read that AND i live in a large apple producing area. so just to clarify wtf? are these crystals good for? huh. that was one hell of a complex post too, i suppose congrats should be in order.

[Darklight]

Nozz that wasn't just a post, that was ART

[Torsten]

jeepers Nozz. you've come a long way!

I didn't follow all the links cos I know most of the texts (and some links didn't work), but...... why do we want phloroglucinol?

I presume the phlori(d?)zin is needed for its middle ring, where the ether and the opposite end are cleaved off to result in the aldehyde or somethign similar??

Doesn't appear a very friendly method, but probably has commercial application. But then you still need to put methyl groups onto all those hydroxys etc etc. Are you sure this is a reasonable way of going about it??

Once again I am stunned at where you're heading... keep it up. What are you studying??

[DaNozz Direct]

Now I'm going all red he he

Anyways, I'm not really after phloroglucinol at the moment, but who knows, maybe one day I'll revisit it if I wanna makes some TMA-6. I'm really just after some phloro(d?)zin, I'm thinking the stuff sounds pretty cool.

Waterdragon, do you reckon you could try to get some phlorozin (fuck that d? thing off) ? It's a supposed stimulant, just seems somewhat interesting. I've chucked the extraction method thing in again down noi…

[*]To prepare it, the fresh bark of the root of the apple tree is boiled for 2 hours in a quantity of water sufficient to cover it. This water is decanted off, and the boiling repeated with a second portion. This last decoction must be kept separate from the first. It commonly deposits in 24 hours a considerable quantity of granular crystals of phloridzin, which, when dissolved in distilled water and treated with animal charcoal, are rendered quite pure.

[*]Another process is to digest the fresh bark of the root in weak alcohol at about the temperature of 50° C. (122° F.), continuing the digestion for 8 or 10 hours. The greater part of the alcohol is then distilled off, and the residue set aside to crystallize. Purify as in the other process.

[/list=a]

I think I found another extraction method that told how many grams of fresh root bark to use, but it wasn't too much different to what is said above.

Spanks heaps WD and DL, but I'm a HTML whore, I just reckon it's cool to be able to have pure code make something that looks heaps arranged. Torsten, I'm doing Applied Chem at RMIT.

[Torsten]

what gives you the idea this is a stimulant??

I can only find refs to it being a tonic.

It also appears that people with a lactose intolerance could have problems with phlorizin.

[Auxin]

"I can only find refs to it being a tonic."- Torsten

Phlorizin:

"Formerly [used] as antimalarial"- Merck Index 8th ed.

"Suggested as a test for kidney function and has also been used as an antiperiodic, but it is more dangerous than valuable"- The Dispensatory of the United States of America 1960 Edition

[DaNozz Direct]

 

http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/articles/apple.htm is pretty much what I'm going by. The mention in MX also makes think it could be true. I imagine you probably think it's all bullshit (got sidetracked by ½ hour here, couldn't be fucked finishing this post)