Echinopsis Pachanoi; Do we have it in OZ?

[TommyChesnutt]

And if not, how can we import it?

Many have theorised, for at least a decade now, that our much revered 'PC-PACH' Is actually an Huanucoensis X.

Or a Scopulicolus x Bridgesii.

Or a Bridgesii x Cordobensis.

Or... ...

So the only species of Echinopsis/Trichocereus 'Pachanoi' that i know of amongst the waters of our community is the KK339. This is a plant that in my opinion WOULD fit the classic Pachanoi description - At least from most of the grow-outs I've seen from Karel Knize (one grow admittedly looked very Macrogonus). This cactus is a beautiful plant, and at least in my eyes, worthy of collection.

However - looking at all the Pachanoi varieties from our American members, I can't help but feel a little left out.

I'm sure i can't be the only one.

Therefore, I'm trying to solve my dilemma by doing a bit of research here..

As a casual cactus hobbiest I've heard rumours that we can actually import Echinopsis seeds without too much hassle - no doubt this is why we have Karol Knize, IcarosDNA and SS material, correct?

So, as a community, do we have any members that have friends, or sources in Peru/Ecuador, that could provide seed of different Pachanoi varieties? I hear that Karel Knize is no longer active(?), and unreliable. IcarosDNA, whilst contributing vastly to our collections of Macro/Peruvianoids, does not live anywhere near the Pachanoi territory (observing from MS Smiths' Map )

Sacred Succulents have plants that i hear to be Pachanoi - the variety Kimnach, and another called Torres & Torres(spelling). Has anyone tried/and/or successfuly imported seed of these types?

The ethnobotanical interest of plants, but especially cacti, is growing, and growing in Australia.

Many of us are now making our own crosses, and i'm not talking about the serious collectors amongst us - i'm talking folks who have a trich or two, which tend to flower now and again. I have personally been contacted for pollen by friends who i would not even consider having an interest in species variation.

This is all not to say the varieties offered by our local ethnobotanical shops aren't absolutely great (a-HEM..)

Nor do i discredit all those fantastic people that make all these crazy crosses.. (My jaw literally dropped a few years back when i read the words 'Terscheckii x Psycho0'...)

But i feel we could be doing more as a community to increase our variety of SOURCE MATERIAL - from South America - and not just by relying on our local vendors to provide.

Note that this doesn't just go for Echinopsis spp. - there are distinct other variants of cacti (or normal plants for that matter!),

scattered throughout the Americas, that would hold Ethnobotanical purpose/heritage/interest towards our Australian collections.

Anyone please feel free to add discussion, info/documenting regarding importing, possible contacts, leads, etc...

I'd also like to say,

this post was not an attack, or a gripe at all,

just a theoretical observation by a casual hobbiest.. give me an argument if i'm wrong, i'm listening..

[zelly]

As a casual cactus hobbiest I've heard rumours that we can actually import Echinopsis seeds without too much hassle

Follow my instructions at the link below & you'll discover precisely which seeds you can legally import.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=31423&p=355802

Last year I offered open pollinated Kimnach seeds, along with 25-30 other cross & open pollinated tricho varieties.

This years crop isn't quite as robust as last years, however there are some interesting & unique crosses.

To my knowledge, every single packet of home grown cactus seeds (lw, arios, trichs, etc) I've shipped to Oz safely arrived to their destinations.

It's also my understanding some OS vendors will work with prospective customers in Oz & NZ regarding labeling & declarations, and others will not.

[nitrogen]

Just casually observing I've seen a bunch of plants that look like pachanoi from Oz no? I mean, in South America there is no one "E. pachanoi" - there's a whole variety..

[cactuscarl]

I have at least 5 types of pachanoi that I don't believe to be crosses and a few that I got as pachanoi that could possibly be crosses there are lots here in oz. I know what your saying tho we definitely don't have the diversity American does. I don't believe I've seen any of those "old world" pachanois in oz that a lot of ppl believe to be true shaman pachanoi.

Its really hard with trichocereus to even know what you have as everyone has a different option and the is no defendant answer. I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that 95% of ppl don't have a clue what they are talking about. Every time I learn something new it contradicts something else I thought I knew.

[TommyChesnutt]

Follow my instructions at the link below & you'll discover precisely which seeds you can legally import.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=31423&p=355802

That link is invaluable, thanks so much - answers some of my questions totally - i thought i had read all the pinned, but i guess that was a year and a bit back.

Cactuscarl, i too have seen pachanoi - 'akin' plants... but it is exactly how you say, we don't have the diversity range of what i have observed to be the truer 'old world' plants.

I agree, i believe that it's all still theory - no-one has the time, or the resources, to do a serious document of the west coast of America. And i also agree that theoretically, one can then look at any PC Pach or Pachanoi 'akin' and claim,

"that is Pachanoi".

But for those of us who have seen the pictures of the medicine stalls in peru, and the wild cultivars that have such pleasant growth habits, I am reminded that i have never seen a 'spineless' Pachanoi phenotype per Britton and Rose,

nor what was originally identified as the KK242,

Nor the a-typical Matucana Pachanoi.

I will take it upon myself to do a bit more research here, and study that link provided by Zelly - in the meantime,

If i were to order seed, would anyone else be interested? I just need to make sure that everything is all completely legal and that i won't get a fine or criminal record, etc. ()

Could anyone else who has sucessfully, or unsuccessfully purchased Echinopsis seed perhaps chime in and tell us the result? ie,

Who you ordered from, subsequent growth rates, true to expected phenotype etc...

[Leaves]

I have seen it for sale at local nurseries. Pricey tho.

[cactuscarl]

Hey leaves I'm from the your area where have you seen it? I have never seen any non pc pachanoi for sale at any nurseries. Pm me some details if you wouldn't mind and I'll go check them out.

I have a couple of very short spined pachanoi that I believe to be a good representation of some wild plants. I also have yowie which is very similar in appearance to some wild plants I've seen pics of.

I would probably be keen to get some seed. I really want to source seed from those really smooth glaucus pachanoi with short spines. Does anyone know what region they come from?

[TommyChesnutt]

I would probably be keen to get some seed. I really want to source seed from those really smooth glaucus pachanoi with short spines. Does anyone know what region they come from?

I'll echo this question. As per MS Smiths' Trich map, it would be in the Northern area - Between Peru and Ecuador.

However, there are also short spined populations around Matucana.

So the only trick is getting a reliable source for these seed types.

We may have a checkmate... unless anyone has a contact?