Amyl Nitrate

[Torsten]

Originally posted by Auxin:

Torsten, you have never made azo dyes have you?

Nope. My chem education stopped at 18months university level.

That nitrous acid breaks down to water and nitrogen oxides, If your careful the occurance of that is hardly worth mentioning,

This is temp related right? which is why it needs to stay at 0 degC.

but if you are off by a little bit in any direction it starts to stink bad.

good indication you're doing something wrong

Could this be the reason why one such product in australia (only available in queensland i think) stinks really badly (besides that fact that it is based on amyl alcohol)?? Could these byproducts actually carry into the final product? Is the stink more likely when using sulphuric as the acid?

Also true is that the product can be cleaned up by washing it if you do it like a chemist would,

how does a non chemist wash in comparison to a chemist?? I assumed a sep funnel regardless.

Plus the product would contain residual water

As this sits at the bottom it wouldn't be a problem. I know this dude used to let it sit for a couple of days to settle the water out and then decant. I also remembered that the left over alcohol that is invariably going to creep in actually stabilises the nitrite.

so you would have to dry it with Na2SO4 or CaSO4

Dream on. I don't think any of the poppers on the market would have this sort of treatment

And the pure pharmaceudical stuff has been distiled

yep, that's about the main difference. But rest assured that the majority of sex shops are NOT selling the pharm grade.

Besides I have never seen amyl alcohol or isobutanol sold in stores, so the home experimenter would probably end up trying to make Isopropyl nitrite .

wasn't really talkign about the uneducated 'home experimenter'. more like the dedicated amateur

My exgirlfriend had to make it in 2nd year chem. Think it was ethyl nitrite (but could be wrong). Second year isn't really hardcore practical stuff.

No, I am not advising that anyone actually do this, but please also don't think that the stuff you buy is any better than some backyard operation.

I guess what scared me the most was that when this dude's potassium nitrite supplier ran out, he sourced some off his own bat and actually ordered potassium nitrate. He tried to react that and obviously failed (although nitrate and alcohol sounds like an interesting pyretechnics mix ). He also uses HCl, which seems to me inappropriate. Needless to say that I haven't comsumed amyl since I met this guy

You're right about the availability of amyl alcohol etc. However, such alcohols are simple enough to buy from a chem supply. I once did see some butanol in a 'sticker remover', but god knows what else was in it.

[Auxin]

Torsten:

1) The decomp of nitrous acid is slower at lower temps (because it is more soluable, when you produce more than can be dissolved then the excess goes away as nitrogen oxides), but the main factors are the speed of mixing acid to metal nitrite, the thouroughness of mixing while doing it, and the quantity (not to mention identity) of solvent used. Remember, nitrous acid ONLY exists in solution.

2) The source of the stink you mentioned could be nitrogen oxides, or a decomp product caused by mishandeling the sulfuric acid, or the always frightening OTHER.

3) I don't always know how non-chemists do things (I was born a chemist, seriously. I made a homemade azo dye from my stomach medicine and phenol before my middle school even got around to talking about pH! Thats how I learned everything in #1) but their probable mistakes would involve using plain water in all the washings, waiting too long, leaving the mix in the light in a warm room, and other assorted mistakes.

4) I wasn't talking about residual water in the sense of droplets floating around, but instead I meant water disolved in the alkyl nitrite (MANY organics do that, although being 'non-polar' (a deceptive term) it is not uncommon for organics to have the capacity of solvating anywhere from 0.1 to 5% water. Even benzene can have a moderate amount of water disolved in it. Alkyl nitrites react with water forming nitrogen oxides and the parent alcohol (just remember that they are esters of nitrous acid and an alcohol)

5) HCl would have different problems depending on the procedure. It would definatly decrease yield (Its a wet acid rather than the common drying acid- 98% H2SO4 (for esterification you want drying) and it is a weaker acid catalyst) If he really messed up some HCl could end up in the product (I have burned my lungs with HCL gas several times- In five minutes you sound like you had just smoked 30+ years worth of cigars! Scares the hell out of my boss, parents, and myself.)

6) Your right, alkyl nitrates make a nice big bang. Glyceryl trinitrate is the most commonly known one, however most people wrongly call it 'nitroglycerin'.

OK I think that covers everything.

[somnif]

how does a non chemist wash in comparison to a chemist?

Oh wonderful, we've been reduced to disguised

ad hominem attacks based on hygene eh?

Anyhow, if you want to see a profession who

have dubious hygene habits have a glance

(not too close) at your average software

developer.

;-)

On a more serious note I would be a little

wary purchasing sodium/potassim nitrite as

it is an ingredient in a particular MDA

route. Then again purchasing *any* chemical

from a chemical supplier without some sort

of acceptable usage story is risky.

[Auxin]

"purchasing *any* chemical

from a chemical supplier without some sort

of acceptable usage story is risky."- Somnif

If they ask what you intend to do with it, you are already in trouble!

I dunno about Australia, but in the US chemical companies make weekly calls to the DEA, ATF, etc.

My last order was for 2-naphthoxyacetic acid and benzylaminopurine, totally innocent stuff- but they still treated me like a freakin criminal (and that was BEFORE the september 11 BS.)

[Darklight]

Tell them you intend to clone stunted terrorists by axillary branching