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mutant

Mandrake cultivation discussion

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Mandragora

Hey anyone growing or having any experience or cool link for mandrake cultivation, especially of established plants ? (only saying this because i dont have any seeds yet, so I cannot talk about growing from seed)

mistakes I made so far

*needn't more free draining soil, more perlite, f.e.

*hurried them a bit in the begining, lost a few to rot, combined with heavy rich soil

I would like to discuss how you rest, at the dormancy period

I was reading that some times the plants stop growing if they reach the bottom of the pot (therefore they need big pots) , but its difficult to understand if its resting for dormancy (depending on hemisphere and species) or just stopped for a while (dried current rozette) and will continue / sprout a bit later again.

So seeing the majority of my plants driying out, and only one having flowered ( well they were transplanted from the wild so they're had a stressful year), I decided to carefully uproot them after I read a while, in case they were already dormant and I was still watering.

On the other hand, some that had dried earlier, started throwing leaves again!, so I left some in their pots too.

Thankfully they are ok, indeed they all had reached the bottom of the pot, the new roots are satisfyingly fatty given the circumstances - also TWO of them are starting a rozete (leaves) , and I think another too.

http://postimage.org/'>P1100510.jpg

so my questions....

1. what about those broken rootlets and also that tiny little plant? will in survive dormancy till september or its too thin and it will dry up? What about planting them now (supposely, a month or less before their nomral dormancy) ? Can they loose their circle? What about planting them, but leaving a piece above... What about planting rootlets of mandrake to propagate horizontaly? anyone done it?

2. I am thinking of taking also some fatter root cuttings - tstarted hinking about them like underground cacti. Is it a good idea? and if I take them, I should better let them rest , then re pot in september (begining of season) ?

3. Can they be hurried up? and if yes, then I suppose the critical period which one should not push them but rather let them rest is the resting/dormancy after each years flowering?

4. How do you let it dormant (plant or root without soil) ? like bulbs? (f.e. bulbous flowers) dry and cool place, away from sunlight and so?

Cheers and hopefully there are a couple opinions on these matters

grow on

Edited by mutant
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fuk these bastards r hard to grow where i live,..,., fuken humid wet summer killed them :wacko: now the winter is cold and wet fuk me whatz goin on??? anywho with my daturas i stump them and put them in a dry spot [potted 1s] over winter. but even sum of the ground 1s grow back the following year!! i dont worry bout pulling them up and storing the roots cause i dont have snow or frost weres i live .....

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maybe you could switch to another species with reverse seasons.

but I doint think the datura serves well for comparison.

she might act like a perrenial for 2 years, but its not really.

The heart of mandrake is what it stores each year in its roots.

Thanks for entry anywayz

I take it you tried with seeds ?

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Noone??

fuck I am doing the cuttings. If they fail, I hate you! lol

I remember at least one member used to have a couple plants.

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stilll nada??

I did the cuttings, they look great.

i think I am going to pot the ones that are throwing leaves despite being bare root

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I purchased 5 mandrake seeds but I didn't plant them immediately after I got them and because they die very fast I just got one to germinate.

It was very beautiful and began to grow new leaves but one day the leaves started to wilt so I transplanted it to the garden, because it was in a plastic bag, and one week later it was nothing there...

It's a shame... One day I will purchase some more seeds. I still don't have an idea of why she died...

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Hello

I did a compilation of the best stuff I could gather up on mandrake, for general cultivation, apart from seed growing, but some seed growing notes also included. The main species of focus of those notes is automnalis, but many of the notes are coming from officinalis growers.

some material comes from SAB both older and new.

if you're reading my posts long enough then you'll know I like many opinions on a subject, so I have included several informed opinions, that each expresses its own perspective, but it's not necessarily 'true'

I had a nice mandrake plant growing at my old place, outdoors in the ground. It was doing real well until winter came. It wasn't cold enough to make the plant un-happy. But we did have record rains all that winter, and I think all that standing water made it ill, because it died. It couldn't take stading in really wet soil for those two months I guess. So a swamp plant, it is not. Brujo De La Colonia

Mandrake must not be to moist when overwintering i've heard, but they do like a lot of water when the weather is good.
It can take a long time to germinate and seeds may germinate at different times in my(limited) experience.
When I transplanted my Mandrake into the ground the leaves died off after a few weeks and i thought the plant was dead, but about a month later, after a few weeks of sunshine, the leaves grew back.
Haven't been able to get it to flower, but this was my first year growing it, and it was a horrible summer.

Πολύ ενδιαφέρον = interesting

I have 4 mandrake plants.
Two of them were grown from seeds I bought, while the other two come from Hungary.
Your plant did not grow because the seed was sown at the wrong time of the year.
Mandrake seedlings are delicate little things which should be kept sheltered from rains and should be kept overwintering in a greenhouse for their first 2 years.
Plants must be over 3 years old to set flowers. Unfortunately if it rains when they are flowering the flowers have the nasty habit to get rotten without setting any seed.
Grown up plants are hardy and I leave them outside all the year long (I live in Europe in an area where Mandrake grows wild). Care must be taken to avoid overwatering them. In this case their leaves become soft and then dry. The whole plant seems to be dead to spring to new life the following fall.
In autumn the plant shows only a tiny green bud which in early spring will develop huge leaves. Sometimes instead after having disappeared underground in summer it will jump out again in autumn and it will show green leaves all the winter long.
Its leaves are very fragile, caterpillars, slogs and aphids love them.
They are strange plants, it's not easy to guess what they are goin to do
Its cousin Scopolia carniolica is a nice plant and and an easy going one if compared to Mandrake. They live in the same environment and Scopolia can be an excellent garden plant too.
Riff Raff

Propagation: Seed - best sown in a cold frame in the autumn. The seed can also be sown in spring in a cold frame. When they are large enough to handle, prick the seedlings out into individual pots and grow them on in the greenhouse for at least their first winter. Plant them out into their permanent positions in late spring or early summer, after the last expected frosts. Root cuttings in winter. Division. Ths can be rather difficult since the plants resent root disturbance.

By earth witchery

Propagation: Mandragora autumnalis is propagated by division of the tubers in late autumn or by seed. Seed needs a period of cold moist stratification before sowing.

Propagate mandrake from offsets or seeds, or by dividing the tubers. Collect seeds from overripe berries in fall. Plant the seeds in containers where they can be protected from winter weather. Transplant them into the garden after two years.

Ενδιαφέρον – dave garden (officinarium)

Hardiness:
USDA Zone 6a: to -23.3 °C (-10 °F)
USDA Zone 6b: to -20.5 °C (-5 °F)
USDA Zone 7a: to -17.7 °C (0 °F)
USDA Zone 7b: to -14.9 °C (5 °F)
USDA Zone 8a: to -12.2 °C (10 °F)
USDA Zone 8b: to -9.4 °C (15 °F)

Sun Exposure:
Full Sun
Sun to Partial Shade

Danger:
All parts of plant are poisonous if ingested

Bloom Color:
Violet/Lavender
White/Near White

Bloom Time:
Mid Spring
Late Spring/Early Summer

Foliage:
Herbaceous
Rubbery-Textured

Other details:
Average Water Needs; Water regularly; do not overwater

Soil pH requirements:
6.1 to 6.5 (mildly acidic)
6.6 to 7.5 (neutral)
7.6 to 7.8 (mildly alkaline)

Read more: http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/2271/#ixzz2feJ7BOIr

Propagation Methods:
By dividing rhizomes, tubers, corms or bulbs (including offsets)

Seed Collecting:
Unblemished fruit must be significantly overripe before harvesting seed; clean and dry seeds

Read more: http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/2271/#ixzz2feIuunJ4

****

paracelsus from Elmira, NY (Zone 6a) wrote:

I've grown mandrakes for many years. They are difficult to germinate, although I have developed a method using cold water soaks that speeds up germination some. I have also grown them from root pieces--the brittleness of the roots indicates to me that the plant favors such propagation--but they can lie dormant for months before sending up any growth at all. Once I threw a piece out and it sent up leaves in my compost pile about 8 months later. They also like to go dormant at inconvenient times. For instance, this year all my mandrakes went dormant about a month after I brought them out of the house for the winter and put them in shade outside. They stayed dormant most of the summer and then started growing in November. The larger ones, which were the only ones that didn't go dormant, flowered then. It is like they are on their own internal clock. I've had plants fruit a couple times, but they need a good long run of good leaf production and flowering. So often somewhere along the way they go dormant.

I have gotten many good-sized roots within a year and a half to two years using regular potting soil and 1 to 5 gallon pots. They enjoy being wintered over inside in my zone 6, which is too cold for them to stay in the ground. They do fine with shop lights an inch or so away from the top of the leaves, but they are very prone to aphids. This year when I brought them in and put them under lights, they immediately burst out with jillions of aphids, so I decided to harvest the roots. I have them drying in dehydrators as I write.

This is a great plant with just a joyous feel about it.

***

ενδιαφέρον

Rauthulfr from Renton, WA (Zone 8b) wrote:

Mandragora is an odd plant, it spends most of the year underground. There are both Spring and Fall varieties. The 'Spring' leaves begin to develop in about March here (area 9). By August, they cannot be seen any more.

I got both varieties as live plants. They have done quite well protected from both too much sun and cold. The leaves can run up to about 5 inches wide and about a foot or so long when fully mature.

After about ten years in one pot, I transplanted it to a deeper one. Ancient and medieval herbal lore credits the root with a fully mature depth of three feet! In ten years I can only give it about a foot in length. I did use a mixture which included some potting soil mixed in with the rather sandy clay of our local yard soil.

In the process of transplanting I discovered that the plant had developed essentially two 'heads' and separated them with a bit of soil between. The result of that can be seen in the picture I posted: Fruit!

I also have the autumnalis variety, which for some reason likes to come up in April rather than in the late fall around here. Well, the Seattle area is hardly the place or origin.

*****

Ενδιαφέρον - καλιφρόνια

NiGHTS from Los Gatos, CA wrote:

I have grown mandrake for several years and had mixed experiences. I love the plant, but it is definitely a picky prima donna, and the Bay Area region of California doesn't seem to be the best place to grow it. In my area, the plant does best if potted in deep pots, as it develops an extremely long root system (the root can grow over 4 feet long!). The main root system sends out a thin probing root and will stop growing when the probe senses the bottom of the container; so the deeper, the better (an old garbage can, or something thinner, but with a similar depth, would be ideal - but at a bare minimum, 12" of depth).

Where I am, I have never gotten fruit, or even flowers from my mandrakes. Leaves grow upwards quickly and then flatten out. The leaves will remain green for several months, and then suddenly all the leaves will turn brown and fall off, leaving a dead looking plant. However, if you water the plant, within a day or two, you'll have new leaves. If kept indoors, mandrake repeats this cycle year-round. If the pot is not deep enough, this will occur on a more regular basis; the leaves of deeper potted plants seem to last longer. I have been told that in order to get fruit from the plant, you must keep the leaves on for at least 6-9 months, which is very hard in many places.

Take care when watering, as most leaves that come into contact with water and/or soil tend to die back. If leaves do become wet, remove the exess water as soon as possible. The plant also seems to like only occasional watering; if you overwater, the plant will let you know (ie. the leaves will turn brown, fall off, and you'll have to wait for new leaves to emerge). To make things more difficult, underwatered mandrakes will lose their leaves and go dormant...so you'll need to play around and see what works best in your area. Partial shade is recommended, and definitely keep them out of direct sunlight. Mandrakes like rich, acidic soil. Try mixing potting soil, peat, sand, and loam.

Mandrake can be grown from seed, but needs 2+ weeks of cold water stratification. Seedlings can take a while to emerge, and seedlings from the same batch will emerge at completely different times. Propegation by root division is the most common method, since not many people are able to get fruit/seeds from their plants.

όλα officinarium Μέχρι εδώ - all daves gardens comments and personal perspectives involve officinarum

**************************

M.automnalis – dave garden

Hardiness:
USDA Zone 8a: to -12.2 °C (10 °F)
USDA Zone 8b: to -9.4 °C (15 °F)
USDA Zone 9a: to -6.6 °C (20 °F)
USDA Zone 9b: to -3.8 °C (25 °F)
USDA Zone 10a: to -1.1 °C (30 °F)
USDA Zone 10b: to 1.7 °C (35 °F)
USDA Zone 11: above 4.5 °C (40 °F)

Sun Exposure:
Sun to Partial Shade

Danger:
All parts of plant are poisonous if ingested
Handling plant may cause skin irritation or allergic reaction

Bloom Color:
Violet/Lavender

Bloom Time:
Late Summer/Early Fall
Mid Fall
Late Fall/Early Winter

Other details:
Drought-tolerant; suitable for xeriscaping

Propagation Methods:
By dividing the rootball
By dividing rhizomes, tubers, corms or bulbs (including offsets)
From seed; stratify if sowing indoors

Read more: http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/1288/#ixzz2feLY8XjZ

Australia automnalis (SAB 2002)

most of mine here in SA are just begining to die back, they emerged in the middle of april and one flowered (a 2-3 year old plant) late july-early august.
She set no seed though, and with the 25 flowers or so that she had I thought one would set, I've been wondering if I'll need two to flower at the same time, any ideas anyone?
Careful with the water with womandrakes as root rot is a big killer, often rotting the root from the crown down, this seems to happen more often with over-head watering.
Cheers

can't sayabout autumanlis
but with offcinialis, it goes dormant in summer... but it won't grow back in winter if it's really really dry on water ( i live in israel where we don't get much rain and i never seen it dormant in winter...)
i would like to study autmanalis, don't think it grown around here
mandrakes are cool plants

in israel it's true that the avrage rain falls is about 560... but that's not including desert areas(but mandrakes don't grow there any way)
mandrakes grow on the whole country excpt the desert...
they grow in plaaces they call in hebrew "bata" which usualy means the mid stage from an open field to a forest
which means it grows in an open area with lots of space and light, and probebly drainge too....but that's officinialis, dunno about autumanalis

SAB recent

Cold stratification significantly increased the yields of M. officinarum and M. autumnalis for me. With twiddling I've got up to 95% germination. The turks definitely like cold stratification too. Remember, many plants grow in less than their optimal areas, so even though they might occur in areas with not very cold winters, it doesn't mean that they don't like the signal of winter to tell them when spring is coming.

It certainly won't hurt any of the mandrakes if you do it correctly.

They're pretty forgiving as long as you give them deep soil (at least a metre, and give it to them basically from the get-go - the roots rocket down like crazy), and keep them dry once they start to brown off to dormancy. And if they appear to rot away from excessive wetness, don't give up hope; you might find them resprouting again 6 months later from a little bit of healthy side-root, as I did after a wet winter.

The other thing to remember is that much of the natural range of Mandragora has warmed over the last few centuries, such that areas that used to have regular snow don't have so much now. In many places they're still hanging on, but warming and other pressures are certainly reducing their numbers and their range. They won't immediately snuff out if the winter cold is less pronounced, but it is a pressure.

It's important to remember that even in Africa and the Middle East night and winter temperatures can and do drop very low, and that freezing temperatures are not rare. In fact, the east Mediterranean region - a part of Mandragora's range - commonly used to experience winter snow. Many other parts of the genus's range routinely experiences deep snow, even in today's warmed world.

Mandrakes can germinate without cold stratification, but giving them a properly-planned chill will increase the germination rate, often dramatically.

Woodragon

Edited by mutant
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Hey mutant.

Aside from my germination notes above I posted somewhere about my cultivation experience with mandrake, posssibly at AE. To date I grow them from seed rather than from root cuttings, and they're easy to grow as long as you give them what they need in terms of soil and temperature.

Mine woke up after winter solstice, and they're doing well. I leave them to their own devices, and the snails are a pain, but the roots look to be putting on size nicely. I have not dug any up, and probably won't for a few years yet - my interest is as a collector and hopefully when they decide to flower, as a source of seed. Unfortunately the labels were removed so I haven't figured out which are officinarum and which are the turks (I still have my autumnalis in the fridge), but there is a subtle difference in leave shape so when I get some time I'll try to ID them properly and post some photos. I'm hoping that flowering might be the easy way out!

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I would love to see your growing notes if you have the time to find them some time.

Yep flowering must indeed be the easy way out.

I too am not really interested in dried roots and all. My only purpose for growing and often uprooting mandrake roots is to try and master the method of propagation by root cutting. Who needs mandrake root when you got Hyoscyamus (annual) material? Only the esoteric/mystic/witch obessives!

I too hope to grow from seed, so I am crossing my fingers I see fruit this year.

I will also trade an automnalis with an officinarum

Edited by mutant
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A while back I dug up a patch where I used to have some mandrakes because I hadn't seen any leaves for ages.

Unfortunately in doing that I broke the root up of the only one still surviving. I thought the same thing as you, I tried to get root cuttings so as not to waste them.

It was very hit and miss, I had to plant them out in the ground as I only had a few places with the required depth of soil.

Some did take but not many, I think it was a case of a fungal attack because we had some quite wet weather after I put them out.

But the good news is some still survived that and continued growing for a couple years until while on holidays the person watering my garden didn't know they were there from lack of leaves.

At least that's what I think happened. Good luck, it is possible but a bit difficult.

I though if I tried it again I would treat with a fungicide first to see if it made a difference.

I'll be keen to see how you get on.

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Thanks for input. I am quite optimistic, as I waited quite for some time for the cuttings to heal, and then this is the right time for a mandrake plant to be potted, according to their schedule in the wild.

The ones what had already sprouted seem pretty happy!

P1100882.jpg

I also tried this

P1100883.jpg

that is the top of the root is slightly protruding...

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I just checked one of the root cuttings. It has taken, it works, so it does not look so hit or miss for me. Only bummer is that they seem to stop a bit when they hit the bottom of the pot... Note these were sizable roots, not some 1~2 mm rootlets...

Maybe the species also helps, automnalis like warm climate, so it's quite at home here, as the automn gets more and more wet....

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Congratulations, looks like you've kept them very happy and healthy.

I'll have to try this one again now that I've seen this.

Thanks mutant

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I found this excellent paper from Israel (M.automnalis is studied ) about aromatic substances and analysis of mandrake fruit. its not really around cultivation but its got decent information overall and its worth taking a look!

http://www.us.edu.pl/uniwersytet/jednostki/wydzialy/chemia/acta/ac17/zrodla/08_AC17.pdf

the cuttings that are supposed to have rooted have not sprouted yet. here are some photos from some days ago and some photos now...

P1110155.jpg

P1110156.jpg

P1110173.jpg

P1110182.jpg

this pretty stressed rosette ahs given up the plant decided to resprout from another side!

P1110183.jpg

another one coming to bloom

P1110185.jpg

I was trying (several days to pollinate them), then I read they are self fertile... I dont know how easy it is to get seed and how long does it do to evolve from successful pollinatio to starting to form a fruit.... I guess we will see...

Edited by mutant
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Awesome!
Are there any Kiwi growers who have this?
It seems to be about as rare as Cappi here in NZ; I've occasionally seen the plant material for sale (dried) but never the seeds or plants themselves . . .

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fruits! look at these faboulous 'veins'

P1110327.jpg

Edited by mutant
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Awesome!

Are there any Kiwi growers who have this?

It seems to be about as rare as Cappi here in NZ; I've occasionally seen the plant material for sale (dried) but never the seeds or plants themselves . . .

90% sure i found these in the greenhouse at the old's after reintroducing my seeds that failed to sprout under my conditions back into the soil.

The rosette and tap root seemed spot on but I never saw them flower, looking at mutants pictures makes me kick myself for not keeping more of an eye on them.

Ma is a witch so it might have been growing there before me.

Great thread by the way mutey, definitely need some info I can trust on growing/harvesting.

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Thanks, its a delight (even privilege) growing this special plant and I am happy I can share some of the info I dug up and also complement it with my own experience. I am also planning my next mandargora trip to another island this spring (trying to decide when and where I will go). There is also discussion on collaborating with a friend doing a monograph (book) on the plant.

"Ma is a witch"

Funny statement. I am on the look for interviews with people who have a close relationship with the plant. Especially people over 45-50 years old. Supposedly, there's always one weird dude in each island , and that dude has quite nice knowledge, judging from the stories I have heard.

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Your so cute when u talk about plants mutey :)

Nice thread :) thanks :)

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I am pretty sure now that the pollination I tried to invoke must have played a role,

or this was an extreme coincidence, and fruits just happened to be where I did my tricks.

or maybe I am the devil. or the plant is the devil. or maybe both.

on thing is for sure: if you unroot mandrakes from pots, you dont die. It seems you have to unroot from habitat, or some location of spiritual importance, who knows. And I got some experiments going, not telling yet! sure I am gonna try to 'bonzai' one of them, you got that! It seems to have a bigger growing period here than back in the island, but it seems to be doing fine, some plants are again making leaves, after flowering...

This is a very special plant while flowering. The flower might be open but might not give pollen. the male organs of the flower are purplish before they set out to give pollen. You can see the one that got both fruit and flowers. There was nothing I could do today, there was no pollen. (today pics)

P1110389.jpg

P1110390.jpg

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Nice work mutes

be sure to keep us posted on any broomstick rides you might go on! might be a good way to island-hop?

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hehe not trying any real broomstick rides any time soon.

P1110399.jpg

the plant on the right which is the biggest in the pot is doing a secord round of a new strong rosette and a new round of flowers...
It hasn't produced any fruit because it was the first to start flowering when none other were. Another evidence they are not self-fertile and yet another is that a friend has a hude plant flowering every year but he has never seen seed.

Edited by mutant
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yesterday:

P1110442.jpg

today:

P1110447.jpg

P1110448.jpg

hooray!!!

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I would swear it was a bit less yellow/orangish a couple hours before!

P1110461.jpg

also I think I discovered a nice trick to propagage/grow mandrake

1. you take a medium pot with a plant you know the roots have got to the bottom - pot should have plenty of holes at the BOTTOM not side) and put it on the soil surface of a bigger pot (I used one I had freshly transplanted columnars and had space and nice fresh soil) . Well this was some time ago, I checked it today and boy it looks wonders (stupidly I did not take a shot before I re-positioned it). A fat root had gone through the pot and down to the big pot. Hope I didn't fuck it up a lot dragging it.

Needless to say it should be better to use cheap pots that are cuttable with a simple scissors so that you dont damage the roots after they go through the holes. Alternatively, you cut off all excessive fat roots in the soil and leave to create new rosettes in the large pot. I guess doing it carefully and let it callous would be more successful.

looking forward to see them all ripening

P1110469.jpg

P1110465.jpg

Edited by mutant
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