Nebbi kuai or jaguar testicles

[shortly]

Would anyone know the botanic name of a Colombian plant locally called nebbi kuai or jaguar testicles which when ingested by a Paye of the Kogi people is said to give them the sensation that they are shapeshifting into feline form.

I’m presently reading The Shaman's Spirit: Discovering the Wisdom of Nature, Power Animals, Sacred Places ...by Mike Williams 2013 which mention the plant but frustratingly gives no further clue to its identity.

[Amazonian]

It may possibly be Ipomoea violacea. I typed 'Kogi paye jaguars testicles' into Google and got one promising hit.

http://psychotropia.co/?p=1215

[gtarman]

I always love any opportunity to research obscure ethno stuff...here's what I got:

There's quite a well-referenced text that mentions "nebbi kuai" a fair few times in this PDF called "EL JAGUAR

EN LA LITERATURA KOGI", or "The Jaguar in Kogi Literature": http://estudiosliterarios.univalle.edu.co/imagenes/pdf%20tejedora%20modificados/FABIO%20GOMEZ.pdf

Only downside is it's in Spanish. But it's a start I guess.

Nothing I could see looked like a botanical name, and searches for the words "botánico" and "científico" also yielded zilch.

The guy who wrote it though is Fabio Gomez Cardona, a professor at Universidad del Valle in Colombia...looks like he does literature and anthropology from what I can understand. Anywho, his contact details are listed on his blog: http://www.blogger.com/profile/09516485684205843780

I'm sure a nicely worded email might yield an answer or at least a solid lead or two.

Mike Williams also appears to be on twitter (https://twitter.com/MikesVoice) and Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/PrehistoricShamanism)...might be worth posing the question to him on there too?

Edited July 1, 2013 by gtarman

[Amazonian]

Or maybe Ipomoea carnea . The jaguars testicles refer to the seeds ?!

From my above link...

The principal mythical jaguar priest was

Kasindukua, a lord or mama with very

ambivalent attributes. He was an expert curer

of human illness, and his principal power

objects were a jaguar mask and a bluish pebble

or seed called nebbis kwai/jaguars testicle; the

Great Mother herself had given him these

objects, and from a number of texts it appears

that they suggest the use of hallucinogenic

drugs. But putting on the mask and, simultaneously,

swallowing the "testicle; ordinary

reality began to change; illnesses became

visible to the eye in the form of black beetles

and thus could be destroyed; women turned

into luscious pineapples, and maize stalks

were transformed into armed men. (ReichelDolmatoff

1987, 101, 105)

The plant in question may be Ipomoea carnea

Jacq. (see Ipomoea spp.).

Edited July 1, 2013 by Amazonian

[Zaka]

Irie,

I've wondered about this vine for some time!

Here's the bit I like;

"Among the Mixe, a dosage consists of twenty-six
seeds. The seeds should be ground by a ten- to
fifteen-year-old virgin and mixed with water;
otherwise, the seeds will not "speak" (Lipp 1991,
190*)"

Respect,
Z

[gtarman]

There seems to be some confusion over whether carnea seeds are actually poisonous in the common usage of the word, or whether it's just a conservative botanist labeling LSA as a poison. Although wikipedia seems to think it has something to do with selenium?

[shortly]

Probably a conservative botanist Gtarman.

Every thing can be considered a poison if you want to push the limits, imagine having 5g of caffeine or 500g of salt, ridiculous i know but the point is everything is toxic in sufficiently high doses. And bear in mind there is now the potential legal ramifications of everything that is put into print now

Interesting but perfectly understandable that Ipomoea carnea would be jaguar testicles when you look at the seed, i've often wondered about the traditional uses of the morning glory bush.

I originally had the idea that Williams must have been referring to a tuber or bulb, i guess i've been biasing my thoughts having been absorbing way to many texts about african plants & their uses of late.

[gtarman]

From what I can see after having a little more of a look I'd say definitely proceed with lots and lots and lots of caution if anybody was thinking of trying it...it apprently contains distinct alkaloids that (at least in animal trials) cause lysosomal storage diseases, and result in brain and CNS damage. I don't know exactly what it entails..but it sounds nasty:

This is the abstract from the paper, "Alkaloidal components in the poisonous plant, Ipomoea carnea (Convolvulaceae)."

Natural intoxication of livestock by the ingestion of Ipomoea carnea (Convolvulaceae) sometimes occurs in tropical regions of the world. Polyhydroxylated alkaloids were isolated from the leaves, flowers, and seeds of the poisonous plant and characterized. Chromatographic separation of the leaf extract resulted in the isolation of swainsonine (1), 2-epi-lentiginosine (2), calystegines B(1) (3), B(2) (4), B(3) (5), and C(1) (6), and N-methyl-trans-4-hydroxy-l-proline (7). The contents of 1 in the fresh leaves and flowers were 0.0029 and 0.0028%, respectively, whereas the contents of 1, 3, and 4 in the seeds were approximately 10 times higher than those in the leaves and flowers. Alkaloids 3, 4, and 6 showed a potent inhibitory activity toward rat lysosomal beta-glucosidase, with IC(50) values of 2.1, 0.75, and 0.84 microM, respectively, and alkaloid 5 was a moderate inhibitor of alpha- and beta-mannosidases. Although alkaloid 1 is known as a powerful inhibitor of lysosomal alpha-mannosidase (IC(50) = 0.02 microM), alkaloid 2, which has been thought to be an intermediate in the biosynthesis of 1, was also a potent inhibitor of alpha-mannosidase with an IC(50) value of 4.6 microM.

And a brief extract from the abstract of a study showing a few of the effects consumption of I. carnea had on goats...neuronal and CNS damage seems to be a major theme:

In nine days, the following clinical signs developed: abnormal fascies, dilated nostrils and abnormal postures of the head, cephalic tremors and nystagmus, difficulty in standing. Subsequently, the goats had a tendency to fall, always to the left, with spastic convulsions. There was lack in coordination of voluntary movements due to Purkinje and deep nuclei neurons damage.

Edited July 2, 2013 by gtarman

[shortly]

Hmmmmmm given the likely outcome your painting there Gtarman perhaps nebbi kuai is not I carnea after all?

Seed of another Ipomoea sp perhaps?

Or something entirely unrelated but that could be mistaken for carnea?

Perhaps something that commonly grows in association with I carnea?

Despite the fact i happen to have a ten- to fifteen-year-old virgin on hand who could grind the brew (if i could prise her away from her cartoons) i have no intention to actually ingest any but the need to know (yeah ok desire) what nebbi kuai is/was still bugs me every time i pick up the book.