Schitztrip Posted October 10, 2001 I can not understand how any reational minded person would vote for one nation...... or Liberal... or Labor really. But particularly One Nation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted October 10, 2001 People often talk of banning parties for the gain of some imagined safety and security.. or Bombing the crap out of people who dont agree with you... If you ban people religions and parties you are a dictator and will reap what you sow. when people have no political outlet, when they cease to feel themselves heard they become extremists for it is their only remaining option. after the entire 20th century and its bloodshed people still find it hard to comprehend that non violent means are the only true way to break this endless cycle of violence. i think the people responsible for and in support of the WTC destruction were justified in their actions, or when the cheated war veterans in (zaire?) ransacked farmsteads They were justified . they had cause for their violence. although it doesnt make it right the truth is that where oppression occurs this will happen, where we choose not to integrate cooperate and try to understand one another this will happen.You cant just ignore them and wait until its too late. I really hope the US stops supporting the israelis and stops sponsoring oppressive regimes in turkey, uzbekistan and well basically anywhere else its involved in the region because this shit will never stop otherwise every year that drags on, a new crop of children live with the pain and the hate and come to see the 'free world' as fascist overlords...and it will fuel more terrorist networks to seek their own justified revenge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gwydion Posted October 12, 2001 Exactly. Provide those who feel the need to live in such-and-such a manner with the right to seek to create a world where they can (even Pauline Hanson & co. If australians want to be like that, they have the right to. Unfortunately) The best way to hamper a party such as this is to let them bog themselves down in politics. This doesn't always work as it seems to be for One Nation. Look at Austria, for example. So you also need a system and society that REALLY educates people to be tolerant and accepting. Unfortunately again, Australia does not seem to be that (there are bits, tho'). I've always found this a very insular society, in general. Reville wrote: "i think the people responsible for and in support of the WTC destruction were justified in their actions, or when the cheated war veterans in (zaire?) ransacked farmsteads They were justified . they had cause for their violence. although it doesnt make it right" I agree, if you agree that there is NO ethical or moral justification for such violence, only perhaps a legal or religious one; which is no excuse, really. "the truth is that where oppression occurs this will happen, where we choose not to integrate cooperate and try to understand one another this will happen.You cant just ignore them and wait until its too late." Oh, but we can. And do. And will keep on doing it, because there are vested interests. War is profit. Business is war. Politics is expediency. And people are irrelevant, except as units. We can only hope; and try. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted October 12, 2001 Originally posted by reville:People often talk of banning parties for the gain of some imagined safety and security.. Isn't the Australian Communist Party banned? If I remember right it was banned in the 50s. With the same right One Nation could be banned... or Bombing the crap out of people who dont agree with you... That's exactly what bin laden did in america, and what the americans are doing now in afghanisthan... If you ban people religions and parties you are a dictator and will reap what you sow True. But if extreme left wing parties are banned, extreme right wing ones should be banned to, or all of them should be allowed... By the same token the National Party should be banned too...(har) when people have no political outlet, when they cease to feel themselves heard they become extremists for it is their only remaining option. I for one haven't had a political outlet for ages but still haven't killed anyone. i think the people responsible for and in support of the WTC destruction were justified in their actions, That's a very heavy thing to say and actually what caused me to write this reply. So the Americans are now also justified in what they're doing? My point is: I hate Pres Bush just like the next man, when his face is on tv all the time I feel like throwing up...But what are the americans supposed to do? Just say: All right it was just an accident...? And my other point is: Fair enough to "defend" the terrorists attacks, but THEY WOULD NOT defend or spare any of us... for them any american or australian national who is not ethnically a muslim is an unbeliever and his life is not worth more than that of a fly... They would kill any of us without thinking twice and the smallest regret, so why should we even attempt to defend them? Which doesn't mean that we now all love bush and the people who voted for him... It's only because of the "decadence" of western society that we are able to state our opinions here, if we lived in a muslim society, or a chinese one, the secret services would hunt down even the last one of us... So fuck them, they can defend themselves... or when the cheated war veterans in (zaire?) ransacked farmsteads They were justified . they had cause for their violence. reville... please! Do you really have to stand up for these scum? although it doesnt make it right the truth is that where oppression occurs this will happen, where we choose not to integrate cooperate and try to understand one another this will happen.You cant just ignore them and wait until its too late. Especially the racist wars in South africa, zaire or ex-rhodesia or whatever it maybe called now... it's just plain racism and nationalism on both sides and it's impossible to comprehend these people who are led by nothing else than fanaticism and revenge...what's happened in Africa over the last 50 or 100 years is absolutely incomprehensibly and can be described only as butchery...all sides are wrong there and I can't see any solution for them, other than for the few clear thinking individuals to migrate to some other place if they can... a new crop of children live with the pain and the hate and come to see the 'free world' as fascist overlords...and it will fuel more terrorist networks to seek their own justified revenge That's already been happening for a long time and I don't know if all of us are aware that's muslim fanatics train children from earliest cildhood to be terrorist killers, robbing them of their mothers and families in the name of allah... If the Us strikes wipes out some of these brainwash camps and the people behind them, so be it... If I was young and eligible, I would not volunteer to go and fight in this war on the western side for the simple reason I would be fighting for America... Because did the Americans help the Timorese when they were butchered by Fascist Indonesian miltia? NO! I would have gone there and fought these arseholes with satisfaction... But fight for the Americans? No. They can fight for themselves. And I bet should Indonesia become a militant muslim state and invade Australia, the Americans won't help us then either... I'm sorry if my opinion does not fit with the general leftist opinion here which is basically against America whatever America maybe doing... Sorry, I'm not for America, but I'm also not for these Idiot Terrorists... If the people in the middle East and in other places become free of Extreme Islamic Rulers, GOOD FOR THEM...to hell with all religions like Islam, Christianity, their Gods and belief-systems, to hell with all their prohibitions, do's and don't! What we need is individual freedom and the right to be ourselves, so long as no other individuals get hurt! [This message has been edited by gomaos (edited 12 October 2001).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shroomy Posted October 12, 2001 Originally posted by gomaos:[...to hell with all religions like Islam, Christianity, their Gods and belief-systems, to hell with all their prohibitions, do's and don't! What we need is individual freedom and the right to be ourselves, so long as no other individuals get hurt! [This message has been edited by gomaos (edited 12 October 2001).][/b] Amen to that. i think a major part of the problem is the fact that we westeners have become so rapt up in a "political correctness" apollogetic mind set. that the first response we have to terrorism is, don,t blame islam or whatever religion is involved. that would offend the muslims or who ever. well fuck the muslims. i think we and every other clear thinking individual in the world should be asking some serious questions of this religon and stop worring about offending them. if they are wrong they are wrong. imagine if you will a guy walks into a shopping center and says i am the second comming of jc and im here to kill all the non believers.every person in the world would call him a nut without a second thought at offending cristians. but when it comes to any other religon oh you can,t say this and you cant say that. what happens then is these ppl become like spoilt children because they have never been dissaplined and when somthing dosn,t go their way they throw a tanty and tell the rest of the world they will blow it up ie: (kick out of the club)anyone who dissagrees. i don,t think im being racist here its just a simple case of calling a spade a spade. and until we all start doing this these types of groups will continue to committ atrocities because nobody bothered to argue against thier beliefs in case it offended them. [This message has been edited by shroomy (edited 12 October 2001).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hopping Eagle Posted October 13, 2001 I do not believe in any religion, be they branches of christianity (Catholic's,Protestants, Lutherist's etc),Islam, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or any other religion or cult I've missed out on. I do believe in the spiritual path, a path that trancends all of the above ideologies at their true source. As for voting - the fact there are so many people that aspire to this flawed virtue & the fact so many people in so many countries have also aspired to this virtue over many hundreds, even thousands of years to the extent of the giving of their lives for such a freedom makes me compelled to vote. Things such as the Magna Carter, American Declaration of Independence & the egalitarian principles of the French Revolution are all inspiring testament to the higher aspirations of humanity. These principles date back to the times of Plato, Socrates etc and remain things humanity should strive for. There is hypocricy, deception etc at every street corner & junction we come to in our lives. I believe in changing the world from the inside out (not really that easy as it sounds) but remaining aware as to the sacrifices of the past to allow me the relative comfort to contemplate such issues & type them into a computer. On a lighter note - saw the John Butler Trio the other night at the pub down the road - thoroughly recommended. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guy FreeMarijuana Posted October 13, 2001 Friends, I know its bad ettiquite to self advertise, but considering this is something that affects us ALL, I have to say it; if your a voter in Queensland, there is somebody worth voting for in the senate..yes me, GUY FREEMARIJUANA, and my brother NIGEL FREEMARIJUANA, the Help End Marijuana Prohibition Party's Queensland senate team. The major parties have attempted to stop us running under our REAL names (ie FREEMARIJUANA) but we whacked them in court! Policies? Aside from the most enlightened drug policies of any party (eg. end the drug war/free the prisoners/legalise self use for recreational/medicinal/spiritual purposes, recognition of sacred plants as a legal right, govt heroin for registered addicts and those in need (eg cancer, aidfs patients)we are also totally anti GST,pro-lifestyle choices, hard green environmentalists (lets not forget that hempchip & paper can save the forests)pro-union, pro-welfare state (the state should ensure all its citizens well being as far as practicable)pro-abotion, pro animal rights & generally take a libertarian position on most issues. As to asylum seekers, speaking personally this country makes me sick with its mean spirited attitude.We should have taken those 700 people in, given them a meal, ashower , mediacal attention, and THEN worked out who they are and what to do with them. Except for the aboriginal minority we (or our ancestors)all came over here huddled like frightend rats in leaky boats, escaping the horrors of the old world. What, we run out of room already? I take the liberty of submitting this "self promotion" because a) the mainstream media ignore , sensationalise or trivialise us, & I consider myself a long time member of the "intelligent" drug using community, and I believe its in all of our best interests to get our hands dirty and get involved in politics and try and change things.I recognise that Projects like Shaman Australis are equally if not more important in this struggle. We must attack on every front and this election is just one more battle. I dont want to get elected, I want to end this EVIL WAR! Love & Freedom, Brothers & Sisters, GUY FREEMARIJUANA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted October 13, 2001 You got me there, Mr FreeMarihuana. Labor has just slipped onto No 3 of my voting list, and since you took the trouble to talk to us here personally, the Greens are now on number 2 (unless Bob Brown talks here too, then the decision will be very hard). I hope your name is on the list in Rocklea. I like everything you have listed and agree wholeheartedly. All the best of luck to you and heaps of votes!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted October 13, 2001 Originally posted by Guy FreeMarijuana:As to asylum seekers, speaking personally this country makes me sick with its mean spirited attitude.We should have taken those 700 people in, given them a meal, ashower , mediacal attention, and THEN worked out who they are and what to do with them. Except for the aboriginal minority we (or our ancestors)all came over here huddled like frightend rats in leaky boats, escaping the horrors of the old world. What, we run out of room already? You speak my mind, heart and soul. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shroomy Posted October 13, 2001 hey guy smiley are you looking for a candidate to run in n.s.w i love the sound of those policies. keep up the good work shroomy. "pro union go figure" [This message has been edited by shroomy (edited 13 October 2001).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest xadia Posted October 15, 2001 I just cant stand the liberals and what they stand for, and no matter how bad the Labour Party sitch is I would vote for anyone to get Libs out which means I'd vote for Labour (cause Im a realist), and then Greens prob. but Im a bit worried about the democrat situation, what Ive heard lately seems like they'll switch sides at the drop of a hat? I dont really understand where their loyalties lie, can anyone shed some light? As for you guys that can't be f**ked to vote... what u gonna say when we end up with an f**ing President like Bush on our shores? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted October 15, 2001 Originally posted by Gwydion: The best way to hamper a party such as this is to let them bog themselves down in politics. I agree, if you agree that there is NO ethical or moral justification for such violence, only perhaps a legal or religious one; which is no excuse, really. We can only hope; and try. yeah the quickest way to slow down a revolution is to turn it into a government.No party can resist the rot and actually thats in our interests or we'll end up with 'statesmen' like mussolini Im saying they were justified but it was still wrong. Violence is always wrong.its a tit for tat neverending cycle.Most animals use every available effort to stand down an opponent before committing to a fight for this reason - everyone gets hurt when violence is used. By justified i mean they had a right to do something and in the current climate they were being swept aside with all their concerns and rights to be who they are. and stay aware.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted October 15, 2001 Originally posted by gomaos:Isn't the Australian Communist Party banned? If I remember right it was banned in the 50s. With the same right One Nation could be banned... actually i think that was turned down..I remember when an army officer recently defende the men i his command several of which were memebers of far right groups saying that it was basically unaustralian to do so, just like when we decide not to ban the communist party. This i wholeheartedly agree with.If we did that wed be worse so much worse or Bombing the crap out of people who dont agree with you... That's exactly what bin laden did in america, and what the americans are doing now in afghanisthan... My point covers both. its a game of futility -we cant change the warring parties but we can say no to siding with either as they are both the aggressors.The public misinformation drummed up by the american campaign will last decades. But if extreme left wing parties are banned, extreme right wing ones should be banned to, or all of them should be allowed... By the same token the National Party should be banned too...(har) so does this mean you see the futility in banning? Public opinion is dynamic and organic - extremism is a disease of the public mind and to cure it you need to address it at the roots. cutting of the head will actually make it stronger.Remenber that the communist party faded away and we didnt ban it. it died a natural death because it was seen not to represent a viable option as im sure one nation will do eventually however it remains a vauable lesson in what happens when little people especially the rural sector is ignored I for one haven't had a political outlet for ages but still haven't killed anyone. Yes but you didnt grow up in a warzone or live in an occupied country. Sure australia is being americanised but its an uneasy slow death at a rate where we take it little by little and just give in little by little.were insensed enough to complain but not so much to take up the struggle. i think the people responsible for and in support of the WTC destruction were justified in their actions, That's a very heavy thing to say and actually what caused me to write this reply. So the Americans are now also justified in what they're doing? yes id say thay are.Both parties are wrong and we should remain neutral to both.But the reasoning behind their justification is different.They are the aggressor in that region - theyve been bombing iraq and squeezing it for 10 years and have troops in saudi arabia which as has been staed is unacceptable to many muslims (every religion has its sacred sites whether they be churches mosques cave paintings etc..) compare it perhaps to the angush over the years to the traditional owners of uluru as it was walked all over and turned into a tourist attraction.except that in this case the believer arent a dispossed tribe - they are a major ideological force. The US is in the region on the basis of oil nothing more and nothing less. they buy oil and sell guns.Their Motivation for being there is morally bankrupt But what are the americans supposed to do? listen to the voice of moderation.trate it like the disease it is.you have inflammatory points in palestine, uzbekistan,pakistan,turkey, saudi and Iraq. These need to be fixed - new conflicts can then be avoided.Often the causes of the problem would easily be sorted by diplomatic processes. The massacre of Kurds in turkey continues with ammerican support whilst iraq is reprimanded for the same thing. Istrael uses State of the art weaponry against dispossessed palestinians (not its not about religion - its about land and religion is the excuse), If palestinians were repatriated - given the right of return to the houses they fled and given the right to vote in a non secular state itd go a long way to easing hostilities in the arab world. Uzbekistan is begginning to turn a moderate muslim population into a breeding ground for radicals by savge and violent oppression. Pakistan supported the taliban - now they dont- it tooka week of diplomatic pressure by the US to cause an about turn in their policy THEY WOULD NOT defend or spare any of us... well not now thats for sure. No western preson will be secure in that region for 20 years even if the hostilitoes stpped now. why should we even attempt to defend them? because im defending the rights of people to reclaim their future without foreign dictatoships and i dont trust the US as chairman of the world - they are not concerned with the future shit they wont even sign treaties on biodiversity, nuclear disarmamnet and greenhouse emissions It's only because of the "decadence" of western society that we are able to state our opinions here I support the existence of australias form of government for australians - but it cant be transplanted to timor or PNG or the solomon islands. Likewise i belive in democracy but there are many forms of democracy.If there are levels of oppression then the arb world is under the highst one. not even oppression by its own corrupt peoiple but under the thumb of currupt foreigners- what hope do they have when these people live more than a stonesthrow away of overhrowing them? reville... please! Do you really have to stand up for these scum? yes i believe i do.If some one had done it earlier it wouldnt have happenned.people arent crazy - they value life if only their own and it takes extreme circumstances to convince them otherwise re africa These places need help and its in all our interests do do it. There has been progress in this recently with some new agreemnet for trde with africa. Health programs, education (in their own language) and environmental aid packages are vital to reversing the loss of human and environmnetal resource from africa. Without these there is simply nothing to rebuild on.I agree that africa is the hardest of the lot. That's already been happening for a long time and I don't know if all of us are aware that's muslim fanatics train children from earliest cildhood to be terrorist killers, robbing them of their mothers and families in the name of allah... This is happenning in countries like palestine where there isnt any other option. the struggle is over the right to exist, i cant see any difference between that and the US "god bless america' and 'in god we trust' and its waging of war. Religion is not the cause but it is used as both the excuse and as the reward. a jihad is a holy struggle - not as much a war but a resistance. If the Us strikes wipes out some of these brainwash camps and the people behind them, so be it... mirrored... If Osama has to kill a few innocent westerners to get the meassge across so be it... justified but morally bankrupt. If I was young and eligible, I would not volunteer to go and fight in this war on the western side for the simple reason I would be fighting for America... Because did the Americans help the Timorese when they were butchered by Fascist Indonesian miltia? no they were too busy selling the indonesians weapons... And I bet should Indonesia become a militant muslim state and invade Australia, the Americans won't help us then either... would you trust the US if australia had a conflict with indonesia? i dont think so. I cant see a conflict with indo if we keep talking..and keep economic cultural and academic links strong..though we should never be ignorant of the threat I see the road to religious tolerance as a pathway of continued peace and non aggression no matter how big a proportion of the world is one religion there is a greater proprtion of another. we must remain strong in our beliefs of freedom but we must also fight for others by fighting against foreign occupation, exploitation and the flow of arms around the globe. with situations like the sept 11 attacks we need to take the time that we have as the world majority and figure out ways to diffuse the bomb threat and not to just explode it- it take more time and is more dangerous immediatley but its predicatable and it leads to a peaceful resolution and not a mess of schrapnel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted November 7, 2001 Whatever you do...don't vote Howard!!! Make sure he loses his job in 3 days... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterdragon Posted November 8, 2001 don't vote for any of the other smarmy scags either. not one of them has touched on the most important issue of accountability. they promise the world right before an election(it's a great time to be an australian) then forget to deliver AND answer to nobody as a result. what's the point of a political promise if they are not honour bound to keep it? i'm just ignoring the build-up for there is no truth to be had. after the election we will begin to get the real deal on employment, the economy, immigration, conscription, spending, tax, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted November 8, 2001 Since my browser absolutely doesn't want to display page 2 of this topic, the only way to find out what somebody posted there is to post something new here... Also: No news yet from Torsten... Are the Nazi trying to close the forums down? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
noun Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) Forgive me for digging up an old thread. Was doing a search for green houses (poly tunnels) and as such hit upon this thread....Politics, Bob Brown, Greens...but no bloody green houses!! Anyways, regards voting. Once a political party achieves a primary vote of 5%, said party receives $2 per vote for the 5% and a further $2 for every vote thereafter. *Edit* spelling on receives. I b4 e, accept after c. ...I'm a pedantic so n so!! Edited July 14, 2006 by noun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiders Posted July 18, 2006 I remember the old 'More Beer' ploy - an effective political tool to get the yobbo vote and then give 100% preferences to the ALP... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted July 18, 2006 *Edit* spelling on receives. I b4 e, accept after c. ...I'm a pedantic so n so!! http://www.answers.com/accept&r=67 http://www.answers.com/except&r=67 Sorry, I'm a pedant too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
noun Posted July 18, 2006 http://www.answers.com/accept&r=67http://www.answers.com/except&r=67 Sorry, I'm a pedant too. I except my mistake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted July 18, 2006 I except my mistake Lucky your name isn't verb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stonewolf Posted July 20, 2006 As a beer drinker, i love the Greens policy of taxing alcohol via percentage, my carton of Carlton Cold will drop in price, while el cheapo goon drinker will have to pay more for such a terrible beverage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aceishigh Posted July 20, 2006 aww did i miss the male circumcision debate? I am against it for two reasons 1) i believe that every extra bit helps 2) I have heard that the skin is sent to peru to make purses that when rubbed become handbags. As for voting, if you really need to ask then better just not vote for howard. In my humbe opinion the liberal party currently heavily relies on persons not well informed and believe the usual crap about the liberals being able to run the economy etc. Its about two basic ideologies. There are those that favour private gain over public interests (ie. liberal party, democrats to some degree - remember they were originally an offshoot of the liberals, religious parties - currently aligned with the right); and those that favour public interests over those of the individual (labour -although currently controlled by a ferocious right wing faction, the greens, the socialists). Thats what it really comes down to. All the policies of individual parties reflect this basic fact. eg one would hardly contribute to a war over a percieved threat to some rich individuals and their oil empires if they were concerned about the public as a whole. The current federal government would have to be the most right wing, morally bankrupt and downright dishonest government of all time in australia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
noun Posted July 20, 2006 There is nothing liberal about the Liberal party. Poor excuse for conservatives as well. The current federal government would have to be the most right wing, morally bankrupt and downright dishonest government of all time in australia. Possible reflection of current ,mainstream society? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
