top areolae pupping

[planthelper]

most of my lophophora are not pupping, but if they do, and this even at an early stage of there life, than it's mostly from the bottom (an old areola).

but this young graft shows a lot of pups, emerging out of recent areola!

head is about 24mm diameter.

Edited May 8, 2013 by planthelper

[coolname]

that is cool i have had a couple of mine do the same thing when i used to grow them. feel free to correct me if i am wrong, but i think its because when you graft one obviously it forces alot more energy into the button. The actual button can only grow so fast no matter what you do, and instead of just growing more areoles like it would when it is on its own roots, all that extra energy from the rootstock has to go somewhere and basically forces the button to grow pups from the new areoles. Does that sound right to you?

Edited May 11, 2013 by coolname

[planthelper]

yes, I think on the same lines.

it seems to me as well that, some pedros which like to pup more than others naturally, will pass on this trait to the scion.

we all know that the behaviour of lophs changes, once they are grafted, compared to lophs on there own roots, and those changes to how a loph will behave, might differ with any given different stock used.

in other words, it would be a lovely experiment, to graft the same loph, onto different stocks and see what happens.

I would not be surprised, if different stocks will produce, quite different outcomes, and I mean not only, the difference in vigor.

for example, would the "sausage trait", or the "true blue" trait have any impact onto the scion?

I don't know the common name for this pedro I used as stock, but it was that pedro which never, grows into a fat pedro, but rather, stays slim and not very tall, but seems to pup more, than other pedros. as such I conclude that the "likes to pup trait", might have been passed on, to the loph.

[zelly]

the loph in the top photo is a caespitosa, thats the way they grow, pupping at a very early age. even on their own roots.

since grafting most any cactus accelerates grown, its only natural to expect it to pup at every aerole, especially a loph

[planthelper]

you make it sound like caespitose, is a specific strain of lophs, but it's not.

some lophs turn out caespitose, and most others not.

all varieties of lophs who pup early and lots are called var. caespitose.

what I say is, can non caespitose lophs, turned into caespitose, just by the action of grafting?

probably not, is the answer.

would grafting accelerate, the feature of caespitose? yes, we know that, but they still pup from the base, and not from the top.

I would love to see a pic of a young loph, producing pups from the top, which has been grafted onto peres. but I think I only saw, this happening when pedro was used as stock.

[coolname]

planthelper when i lived overseas i only used cuttings from the one strain of pedro that i had as stock for all of my loph grafts (which mostly were clones of the original plant i started with) and a couple of them had produced pups from the top even though they are all genetically identical. I think it must have something to do with how well you have grafted it or something like that because that is really the only variable i had with my grafts

Edited May 11, 2013 by coolname

[zelly]

you make it sound like caespitose, is a specific strain of lophs, but it's not.

some lophs turn out caespitose, and most others not.

all varieties of lophs who pup early and lots are called var. caespitose.

My personal, first hand experiences have proven otherwise.

Every single caespitosa form I've encountered is a subspecies of williamsii or jourdania. Seeds from these plants produce other caespitosa plants.

Caespitosa forms grow aerial roots on very young offsets, and offsets can occur on extremely immature stems, often seemingly to appear where no aerole has ever existed. Again, this is from my own personal, first hand experience. ymmv

Here is a difusa which pupped early in its life, and it clearly does not exhibit the characteristics of a caespitosa form.

you make it sound like caespitose, is a specific strain of lophs, but it's not.

all varieties of lophs who pup early and lots are called var. caespitose.

In the first sentence you say caespitosa is not a specific strain or variety

and in your second sentence you say they are.

Here's a challenge & test for you.

Slice off a pup from your top pic and one from the bottom pic.

Root them out on their own roots and grow them on their own roots and see which one pups first.

See which one exhibits caespitosa characteristics and which one does not.

[Philocacti]

i agree with zelly on this one, although im not an expert, but sometimes my grafted williamsii will pop from every areol and i think it can have 2 reasons or more.

The damage of the growing tip or the speed the stock delivers but that;s my theories

[planthelper]

In the first sentence you say caespitosa is not a specific strain or variety

and in your second sentence you say they are.

no, I don't!

edit: just had a look at my jourdies, unfortunately I got only 3, but none of them is pupping.

Edited May 13, 2013 by planthelper

[woof woof woof]

One thing I always heard was that LW Caespitosa was a less desireable.

[mutant]

Zelly is right, even though I am not sure where is the disagreement.

it's a lophophora williamsi var. caespitosa

I remember it being also called monstrosa caespitosa, due to the extremity of overpupping..

it seems it's a pretty common form in europe from time to time, probably coming from dutch nurseries.

it grows considerably faster than a normal lophophora IME.

and it is pretty characteristic in its form and growth style exactly like zelly said. word, mate , cheers

and yep they do pup from near the tip if you water them enough atthe right time

I have handled , bare-rooted, split, propagate, root, you name it, lots of them recently so I am pretty positive about it. These fuckers grow pretty fast once you got a decent piece to start with.

I got a couple other caespitosa strains too. I am not sure they are really that different, but I tryto keeptrack of the strains so time will tell. I have recently got another that is more fluffly - actually none of my lophophoras are really fluffy, so I am really excited about this one .

woof, I dont know about desirable, but a slow growing 7 cm true button is worth lots more than a 8 cm caespitosa button , if you count growth speed. dont know about anything else though...

Edited May 13, 2013 by mutant

[zelly]

mutant, when you say more fluffy, I'm assuming you mean the older mature head(s) ?

Or are all pups fluffy as well?

Here's some caes fluffies for ya to fluff.....

and i cant imagine anybody not desiring them in their collection.....

same plant as the one second one above:

who doesnt want this one?

Or this one?

[mutant]

astonishing specimens!

no actually I meant fluffy seemingly all around, pups too, although this is a stressed plant, so this growing season will be pretty telling of its habit. I will post in here some next time

cheers