Lophophora williamsii illegal in W.A.

[waterboy 2.0]

You should be able to have a chat with them regardless and get some advice (that advice mind you MAY be shit...), getting representation is another matter. Here if you qualify for representation can be outsourced to other private practice lawyers, not just the legal aid lawyers.

Doesnt hurt to start a phonecall/visit to legal aid first myco.

[cactuscarl]

I feel for you myco, I would probably be arrested in that situation for violently defending my cacti. Some of your plants are so rare and valuable maybe you could try for a collectors exemption since they are endangered. If it doesn't go in your favor see if they could be sent to another state just to stop them being destroyed I know its unlikely but worth a try.

[Scarecrow]

that's what worries me I don't want to be the one that brings down the entire Australian cacti community

like I say I don't want this to affect anyone including nurseries selling these things

but I don't want to just sit back and take what they give me in a way I feel like I need to fight this

I don't think anyone will blame you man. You've been done great injustice and have a right to fight it. If their response is to bring about more injustice... that's hardly your fault.

[cactuscarl]

^^^^agreed better to fight now than sit back and let them take our cacti one collection at a time.

Another idea I had was tell them must prove every cacti they took has masculine. I have very little info on how the law works but that seems like a reasonable argument to me, especially since lop aren't specifically mentioned and hopefully its just to expensive and difficult to prosecute you. That would hopefully work on a couple of levels 1) make it very hard for them to prove. 2) show them how ridiculous and futile a blanket law like this is. 3) you would be using there own law against them.

Edited May 9, 2013 by cactuscarl

[myco]

so just had to go and do fingerprints, dna, mugshot fun fun

I tried to talk to the officer a bit and explain to him about the fact that half of these things are commonly sold in bunnings ect.

I really don't know how to take this guy he's very nice and seems to have done a lot to try and help my situation

but at the same time when I tried to explain this stuff to him I was basically just made to feel like an idiot and that I didn't know what I was talking about

I even showed him the garden freedom website wich states some species known to contain mescaline that are commonly available in nurseries everywhere

basically he said this is just someones opinion its not fact

from what I was told I basically should shut my mouth and take what I get

he said that in his little bit he is going to say that I was misinformed and he is going to be mentioning

the various cacti, bonsai and other plants I had and that my collection and that the lophophora was only a small part of my collection

I dunno what the fuck to do I feel like I should just shut up and take what they give me

but at the same time I really feel like im being wronged by the legal system

why should big corporations like bunnings be exempt from these laws

Edited May 11, 2013 by myco

[simhanada]

did you ask if the plants are to be destroyed? before any court case? What if when its all done and dusted your free, not convicted and your plants are considered ok, only you no longer have them?

[myco]

id say that's my own problem

[myco]

I feel so confused my cacti collection had become a huge part of my life

now im scared to even own any cactus

hell im scared to own common items like a coffee grinder or a pot

Edited May 9, 2013 by myco

[Idon'tstudydinosaurs]

Show them how passionate you are. The law can be moulded to set an alternative precedent. Show them these are your babies and you would never chop them and use them for selfish gain.

You know you have done no wrong, just need to change a few perceptions ;)

[Snowfella]

MIght be a daft question here but still.

Anyone have any idea what the state of WA botanical gardens are? IE, how many state sponsored/run gardens grow Pach and Peru's out in the open and accessible for anyone? Or for that matter other state run insitutions that have these plants growing on their ground or in pots in offices.

Generally just a call for anyone in WA who's seen one of these plants potted or in the ground at a state owned/run place.

[waterboy 2.0]

Myco...... from the moment they were handed their marching orders to visit you the role of the police is to collect evidence and build a case and then get you convicted . Anything you have said or say in the future to them can and most likely be used against you if they are on a witch hunt.

They are not your friends in this situation. I am all for police members doing THE VAST MAJORITY of the good things they do in our society for the record....

The magistrate or judge is who needs convincing if your intent is to dispute or challenge any charges. His or Her role is to hear out your defense if that is the case, or if pleading guilty based on anything presented make a decision on the degree of the end outcome.

It is also dependent on what charges have or are intended to be made.....DO NOT discuss your charges openly until this has been resolved . I would like to also advice that you probably should not be openly discussing the mechanics of the situation, you SHOULD be chatting with some folk here ...no doubt. For what its worth you have an ear in this quarter if needed mate if your feelin somewhat overwhelmed.

I am pretty fckn sure "cause everyone else has em" defense is not going to cut it to be honest. However it could assist in some leniency , but you'd need the argument framed right

Tell me to fuck off and pull me head in if you want.....I have no problems with that - I just had to tap this my ethics tell me so because I hate seeing folk getting done over....old WB has been round the traps..... but not in WA for the record

This is also the last time I will enter this thread.

[Foo]

did you ask if the plants are to be destroyed? before any court case? What if when its all done and dusted your free, not convicted and your plants are considered ok, only you no longer have them?

Not likely.

[AndyAmine.]

Myco, just some food for thought.

I went through a court battle contesting a charge not that long ago and they said the same thing the whole way, even legal aid.

"Oh, just cop it on the chin mate, its not that big of a deal and they don’t like people that rock the boat and cost taxpayers money by fighting charges. You'll just annoy the judge and get a heavier sentencing"

I was starting to believe them and was sick to the guts with traipsing back and forth to court every month so was really close to just pleading guilty and being done with it.

The next time I was in court I thought I'd watch some other cases being heard before mine and in nearly everyone they brought up previous charges and convictions as a way of proving poor character and/or intent etc. and was often the deciding factor in the sentence they received.

Often I heard things like 'Ahhh, well normally I would hand down such and such but due to your criminal history and previous history with the courts I will be giving you THIS instead'

It was then I realised just how far reaching this kind of conviction could be in my life and decided I had to fight it..

I spoke to a real lawyer for all of 15mins and he told me things none of the L/A jokers did and within a short space of time I knew what to do, did it and had the charges dropped and an apology was given.

All the L/A lawyers told me to bend over and hope for the best and I was days away from doing exactly that.

[Thelema]

Hi, I see a few problems here

Edited May 9, 2013 by Thelema

[myco]

Tell me to fuck off and pull me head in if you want.....I have no problems with that - I just had to tap this my ethics tell me so because I hate seeing folk getting done over....old WB has been round the traps..... but not in WA for the record

This is also the last time I will enter this thread.

thanks mate as I said earlier I really value any and all opinions and advice in this situation so I aint gonna tell ya to fuck off

its true no matter how much they act like your friend they arent

I think its really become clear I need to to get legal advice straight up I have to do it

I know far far to little about how the legal system works to do this myself

I really don't want to get a criminal record for this

Im just tryin fucken wrap my head around all this its all to much

I think I just need to get find a lawyer and see what they can tell me

thanks for all the support and advice guys

I really cant thank you's enough

how do you tell a good lawyer from a shit one

if anyone has any advice on lawyers how I should go about finding a decent one that can give me some good advice id really appreciate it just PM me

thanks again guys i'd be lost without this place

[Fenris]

Crap on a stick Myco, this is a total f'n outrage. All the waste of time bull shit over some sacred cactus, its a very sad state of affairs.

I might just know a guy who knows a guy who might be able to put you in touch with just the defense attorney you are looking for. Ill make a call tomorrow and see what I can dig up.

[myco]

thanks fenris

I'd really appreciate that very much

[Fenris]

PM'd

[tipz]

What are the chances of police now contacting members on here after seeing their collections and asking to come round to make a purchase, only to be raided by the police ?

Do people think that this is a once off or the start of many many more gardens being raped ?

Isn't everyone pretty worried over this ?

[Thelema]

No charge has been laid as yet.

Cool it.

[Torsten]

No charge has been laid as yet.

Cool it.

They can't charge until the analysis for mescaline is positive. That may take up to 3 months, but otherwise this is pretty much a done deal.

[shortly]

What are the chances of police now contacting members on here after seeing their collections and asking to come round to make a purchase, only to be raided by the police ?

Do people think that this is a once off or the start of many many more gardens being raped ?

Isn't everyone pretty worried over this ?

It will just be the tip of the iceberg, not that they will try to get every pedro out there but a few high profile cases to show what a bang up job they are doing & push any remaining cacti out of sight as it were.

And nope they can look around here all they want all the worrying parts of the collection were sent on their way when this first raised its ugly head. I have a heap of BIG Euphorbia ingens i mean san pedro they are welcome to take away for testing if they want I hate touching the thing.

[Stillman]

i just got a generic but officious letter in the mail stating that they had noticed I have purchased seeds and possibly plants OS and that I make sure that any seeds purchased be allowable according to a website attached. I haven't imported anything illegal or not on the allowable list but is interesting timing.

[bogfrog]

Hmmm. I think it would be wise to cut all imports back to bare minimum then. They are obviously recording that information, and perhaps not in a reliable or trustworthy manner.

Gives me the creeps tbh.

[Stillman]

yeah I have just changed my labelling system away from latin botanical names to numbers, not that I have anything to hide but it gets you thinking.