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myco

Lophophora williamsii illegal in W.A.

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thanks mate I think I will go ahead with it

I was also considering going the route of mentioning other plants not just cacti

if anyone has any information or anything they think may be helpful to my case please contact me

& thanks everyone for your good words I really appreciate it

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I reckon your best bet would be targeting Bunnings (and any other chain stores you have seen selling trichs), they are clearly cashing in on people's desire for these particular cacti.

I went to bunnings (in NZ) in the weekend and they had easily 40+ individually potted san pedros and scopulicolas for sale, a couple years ago i would have been shocked to even see one. I think you could make a real difference if you can exemplify this point you are working at. Maybe members could take photographs of trichocereus for sale at chain stores all over country and compile a folder which shows how readily available they are throughout australia. Best of luck, we're all rooting for ya.

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thanks mate I think I will go ahead with it

I was also considering going the route of mentioning other plants not just cacti

if anyone has any information or anything they think may be helpful to my case please contact me

& thanks everyone for your good words I really appreciate it

u mean naming other sacred plants is that just stiring the pot of shit 4 all of us???? i like bunnings and other nurseries that sell cacti !!!! isnt sab 1???

Edited by bullit
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I think its safer to just focus on what they are targetting you for, its clearly a complex situation and it would be a huge battle to fight, i think it could end up a bit of a pandoras box, and you are more likely to succeed if you just focus on trichos being available to any john doe at bunnings ........just my 10c i'll butt out now! Good luck whatever you decide!

Edited by bogfrog
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i was mainly thinking about the native wattles that grow rampant everywhere

i assume DMT is a scheduled drug and therefore shouldn't it be subject to the same conditions that any plant containing it would be illegal would it not ?

does this mean everyone with a wattle growing in their yard is a criminal to

shouldn't they be getting the same treatment as wat im going to be facing

i no what you mean maybe it would be better to just focus on myself here and not try to make a big deal out of it

i don't know i really don't now what to do about it im just considering my options

please don't butt out either any and all input is welcome

also if i was to go ahead with showing how widely available they are i would NEVER EVER add sab into the mix

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the likely outcome is bunnings will just take the products off their shelves. i doubt they make enough money for them to be bothered to fight it too hard.

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I asked if he was going to start digging up all the native wattles aswell to wich he replied as far as I know theres nothing illegal in wattles

This surprised me, depending on how widespread this ignorance is, it could be either a blessing or a curse.... I'd have a chuff/good hard think on it. These things have a way of clarifying themselves sometimes.

...I hope you can find some peace right now, and i hope all this mess will be sorted out soon.

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i think to be honest, that kind of argument will just get chucked out in court.

Unless your talking about massive barrister bills and high court turning over a law.

Talk to a lawyer, even if you cant afford it. Most will work with you with the bill. Have you actually been charged? If not a lwyer at that initial stage might save you a lot of grief later on

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For what its worth, in all seriousness (and tapped it before) lists and shit are bad news IMO, as my past work experience had taught me nothing good will come of it.

My best advice is to get legal advice Myco, and this is first and foremost for your best outcome mate

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i also have been smashed from AQIS for importing seeds

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u mean naming other sacred plants is that just stiring the pot of shit 4 all of us???? i like bunnings and other nurseries that sell cacti !!!! isnt sab 1???

It could work if he specifically targets natives & particularly anything that is commercial & making good $'s. The liberal platform is being business friendly so pissing off industry isnt high on their to do list.

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cheers guys

looks like i better start tryin to find a lawyer

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This is very sad news Myco, only just found this thread.

I think you need to compile some information on the rare and threatened status of L. williamsii in the wild and explain why you are a plant collector. I think it would be useful to have a visual and written catalogue of all your ornamental plants.

As a fellow plant collector, it worries me greatly to see another's liberties taken away.

Edited by whitewind
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cheers guys

looks like i better start tryin to find a lawyer

Yeah, get a good one, take their advice and push your energy in that direction instead of things that may or may not amount to nothing. I don't have much in the way of $s but happy to shoot some over to help out when I can. Maybe others would be willing to help too if your open to it.

Edited by simhanada
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This surprised me, depending on how widespread this ignorance is, it could be either a blessing or a curse.... I'd have a chuff/good hard think on it. These things have a way of clarifying themselves sometimes. ...I hope you can find some peace right now, and i hope all this mess will be sorted out soon.

Wasn't this guy extracting from wattle bark?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-29/police-warning-over-new-drug/3978906

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Im willing to chuck a hundred dollars into a fund to help Myco with legal rep.

Should we get an oxfam type auction underway to help him out ??

Im willing to kick it off. Because as much as this seems like Myco's fight, really, It is "our" fight as a community !

What do people think... ?? I reckon it is time to band together here.

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thankyou all very much I sincerely appreciate all your advice and people offering money to help with legal advice

the support here is amazing thankyou

but i'd honestly feel terrible to take anyone's money

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Myco I feel for you mate.

I read this earlier today but haven't had time to comment

This is all a bit out there. I haven't seen any thing along these lines regarding banned plants. Targeting Trich's is really strange..

You really need to get legal advise sooner than later.

I have to go but I will try and do some reading over the next few days to try and make sense of this.

Take care Myco and stay squeaky clean.

Cheers

Got

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Can I please remind everyone to adhere STRCTLY to two rules in this thread.

* Do not incriminate yourself and others. if you see any posts that are problematic please report them.

* Stay on topic. It will be a big thread and there is little point in bringing conspiracy theories into it which confuse the issue. if you want to start a politicl discussion on the topic then do so in another thread that is not in the legal forum.

Myco, the law that plants are exempt from drug law only applies in NSW because here the definition relies on the word 'preparation'. A living plant can never be a preparation. Not all states have this distinction and certainly ACT, SA and Qld don't. Not sure about others. It is clear from the definitions posted in this thread that any plant containing a drug is regarded as illegal in WA. That means the seizure of those cacti was legal and there is little you can do about that.

This means you need to move onto the next step, which is to decide if you want to plead guilty or not guilty. If you plead not guilty and you are found guilty then your penalty is almost certainly going to be substantially higher than if you pleaded guilty. you will also have the cost of the court case, which I recommend you do not attempt wihtout a decent lawyer [ie at least $15,000 slush fund].

The same arguments you would use for fighting a not guilty plea are also useful in going for a guilty plea. You can use those arguments to have your penalty reduced or even the case thrown out. You can do this without a lawyer, however if a recorded conviction is something that will affect your career then I recommend you definitely invest in a lawyer [at least 5,000 to 10,000].

The court will not care about most things discussed here. Mentioning conservation status or rarity will only support their claim of your intentional law breaking. The things that get cases off or penalties diminished are

* being able to show lack of intent [eg being unaware of the law applying to live plants]

* being able to show lack of knowledge that the plants contain mescaline and hence were breaking the law

* being able to show that a REASONABLE person would not find himself in this situation [ie the law is selective, unclear, or unfair].

* being able to show that the law is wrong or unreasonable.

Now, every lawyer will argue with me that the last point is rubbish, but some of the best cases I have been involved in were won PURELY on that last point, so I prefer to go with the experience.

Part of this last point is to show that every reasonable person is breaking the same law because the law is too broad, eg if you could show that most front yards contained plants that were illegal under the law. The more unreasonable you can make the law look the better your chances. You do not need to divulge 'inner circle' information on plants. There is no need to give them lists of 20 wattles that contain dmt. Just pick the two most common ones that are published in literature. Also make sure you take pictures at Bunnings and nurseries, and document them with date and location. Have a look around your municipal parks and pick a few plants that support your case. And best of all check out the court house gardens and the police station for such plants. Whatever you do, you must be 100% certain you have it right and you must have solid supporting evidence. I am happy to help you with that and I am sure so are others here. You do not need to give them anymore than they either already know or are likely to find out soon anyway. The whole wattle discussion will explode in the next few weeks and months anyway with the new federal laws, so you could synchronise with those efforts.

As has been mentioned before, any incrimination here may be used against you. Even admitting to knowing the constituents of the seized plants could affect the options you have later. I seriously recommend going trough all your posts and editing anything that might help them.

And most important of all, do not compound your problem. This is a charge that good character references and some clever manouvering can beat or diminish, but if you get busted with a bong or joint in the next few weeks [and yes, they love to come back or stop your car] your situation suddenly looks very different.

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Don't let pride get in the way man... it could really help you. This is an amazing community and this is an attack on us all.

I would like to think i could call upon my SAB brethren for assistance in a time of need.

Im going to start a thread pledging a hundy and a nice plant for auction tomorrow. If you think this is something worth rallying behind, any plant or cash donations would be appreciated.

Myco is a longstanding and valued member here and I am sure that together we may be able to give him the little help that we can. And Myco, if you don't like taking it bro... let me take it and Ill hire your lawyer. There is nothing wrong with accepting help from those who who really want to help.

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It could work if he specifically targets natives & particularly anything that is commercial & making good $'s. The liberal platform is being business friendly so pissing off industry isnt high on their to do list.

http://www.sacredgardenfrangipanis.com/angels-trumpets/index.php ???

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so much to think about :(

whats the deal with legal aid

cant i get free legal advice from them

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yes

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Ill throw down a hunge,I'd spend more than that on a rare cacti anyway.lets be intelligent about this peeps.it was going to happen and it has.

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you get what you pay for. legal aid will not get into any of the issues mentioned. they usually don't have the skill nor the desire to spend the extra time.

in that case it might be best to get a LA lawyer for all your pretrial stuff [lots of paperwork deadlines you must not miss], but don't actually have him in court on the day. Judges are pretty good if you are representing yourself, and if you spend a few days in court prior you can learn all the procedural stuff that can annoy them if you get it wrong. It all depends on how well you can present your issues and how well you can adapt to changing situations. Some of the wins I mentioned in my previous post were self represented. By not having a lawyer present you get a little more leeway on what you can bring into the discussion on the day. If you can come across as passionate and innocent then that is sometimes better than a mediocre lawyer.

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