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Chilean sect using Aya sacrifices a baby

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^ quote the parts you don't understand? i'm happy to elaborate

if you're not sure why make a comment implying i'm saying something that i;m not

edit - to be as clear as possible, my point to you was "don't treat [ayahuasca] like an innert reflection of people's intentions, because it isn't"

Edited by self organising systems

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who is this directed to? should religions be banned?

I believe the original question was directed at a Mr Rhetorical

but if i have anything to offer you it's going to come from honesty. it really disheartens me to read this today, as well as the fat medication thread you started. the reason it makes me disheartened is that you are a person with great access to 'entheogens', but you have no better ability to overcome your own problems than anyone else,

I'm sorry that 'the entheogens' have failed to meet your expectations in this instance, inasmuch as for so many others they have been a source of enlightenment which radiates out into the wider community </sarcasm>.

I'd back off roundabout now if I were you, before you make a dick of yourself, T has spent more time sorting out more stuff for himself and a large number of other people than you'll ever know. I doubt this would directly be attributed to entheogen consumption, however the issues around them have been a remarkable catalyst for change in lot of ppl- some of which can be credited to the effort he has put in over the last 15 years IRL with those issues and people

i know the entirety of who you are is not reducible to these features, but are

these facts untrue? if you want to "ask the question a little more relevant" what sort of example are you to people interested in 'entheogenesis'?

I have never heard T say or imply that he was an example for anyone to follow. Your question is irrelevant, unless of course you are hoping some great leader will spring fully formed from the eyebrows of Zeus and be everything you need to get us all through the next millennia, and you're down on T because he isn't. You're not implying that, are you?

my answer is no, don't ban religion. power is always on the side of conservation, strength is in repetition, there's always something inherently weak about novelty. people using aya here are not doing the same thing when they drink it as people who live a traditional life in the Amazon.

Don't agree with you there, novelty is a significant driving force for human beings. The fact that it gets hijacked by idiots doesn't stop it from being powerful. You can buy random shit off ebay on your iPad, but you can also use the magnifying/ microscope app to analyse blood for parasites in remote areas. Neither was possible ten years ago. A hundred years ago most women of EU origin had an horrendous mortality rate during childbirth. It's good ( and, to use your word again, powerful ) that people chose to adopt novel methods which kicked those stats in the guts. Etc

i don't know what it is but DMT is an extremely powerful substance, no one has a monopoly on understanding it or what it can make people do.

Might have helped if you put that last sentence first. IMO DMT and other substances, and lifestyles, are one way for us to understand- not just about the experience, but about ourselves and the world around us. Even if you choose not to ingest it, DMT poses a myriad of really interesting questions in neuroscience, plant biology, comparative sociology, anthropology, medicinal systems and prolly a whole bunch of stuff I haven't thought of.

It's kind of you to say no-one has a monopoly, now you've said it we can all relax a bit ;)

Do you always make this little sense?

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who is this directed to?

Over 1000 posts and you still don't understand hwo the quote feature works? Obviously my response is directed to the person I quoted in that post.

should religions be banned? are you 10 years old?

Again, you obviously miss half the post because it was in direct reference to the post quoted which asked about banning guns. To me both are tools that require great responsibility in their use, but I won't bother going into detail for you as you aren't even grasping basic concepts like questions and replies.

it really disheartens me to read this today, as well as the fat medication thread you started. the reason it makes me disheartened is that you are a person with great access to 'entheogens', but you have no better ability to overcome your own problems than anyone else, no doubt you're a nice guy but the impression i get from things you've posted recently is you're also an overweight and naive person who has a lot of trouble with the cops, and who has killed most of their stomach flora by trying to find easy ways out of your problems .. i know the entirety of who you are is not reducible to these features, but are these facts untrue?

I normally wouldn't bother replying to a post like that, but as I have not been all that active the last couple of years I thought this is a good opportunity to put thing into perspective for others. You are so far off the mark that it is obvious you actually know nothing at all about me.

I've had trouble with law enforcement 3 times in the last 30 years. Given what i do [selling shamanic plants, labware, etc] I think that's a pretty good ratio [Medicine Garden have had about the same number of visits and HHH has had plenty more]. Anyway, since when is being harrassed by cops an indication of guilt? I had more problems with cops in my late teens when i was a political activist, so obviously your statement is meaningless ... other than showing how judgemental you are of course.

I've never been called naive before, so i put that down to your ignorance rather than any reflection on me, LOL.

As for my medical problems, your judgemental and ignorant attitude shines again. The problem was caused by a senile dentist who caused me to fall sick with septecemia. I am lucky he didn't kill me, but sadly the treatment caused me a lot of damage, including dysbiosis and immune problems. I've spent the last 12 years working with some of the most cutting edge scientists and physicians in the field to recover [this means dozens of both average and excellent medics that reached the end of their skills without being of any help!!!]. I have been poked and prodded and scanned more than I can remember; had surgery; have been on some of the strictest and most restrictive diets a person can survive on, with the strictest self discipline; have been given some truely scary medications, vile herbal concoctions, and painful injections; Many of these were for medical misdiagnoses! I have also tried the shamanic healing path. Ultimately if there is no known cure one has the choice to give up or experiment. I am doing the latter. I am helping lots of others in the process - people who have given up or who are stuck at the limits of their physicians. My GP even asks me to help some of his other patients with similar problems, because of the huge amount of knowledge and experience I have accumulated. And I am well aware that I may never find a cure for myself. Entheogens have helped me because even in my darkest days I felt connected and with a purpose, knowing that my suffering helps others and that's what's kept me motivated. I have NEVER taken the easy path. Even people who don't like me will always give me the credit that I am a strong and stubborn person who doesn't give up, so once again you are showing your own ignorance more than anything.

if you want to "ask the question a little more relevant" what sort of example are you to people interested in 'entheogenesis'?

As an atheist I don't think i COULD ever be an example to people interested in entheogenesis as that would be contradictory, so obviously you entirely misunderstand my role once again. My forum title is inatulet and it reflects much more what i am about and while mostly a reflection of my past work, by modern extension also includes a lot of my current experiments.



my answer is no, don't ban religion. power is always on the side of conservation, strength is in repetition, there's always something inherently weak about novelty. people using aya here are not doing the same thing when they drink it as people who live a traditional life in the Amazon. i don't know if you saw it but at Rak's be-in at the last EGA, the lady singing 'icaros' at the top of her voice? wandering around when everyone else was sitting, she was off chops and bein real disruptive? that to me is the image of people in Aus who think they're using aya 'traditionally' .

I have never been interested in the partial or pretend transplantation of the cultural values and have often spoken out against copying rituals, so i am not sure why you are bothering to make that point to me.

there's something about reality that tends to favour the reproduction of strong elements of the past within the present. new things are always the weakest, the most susceptible to being corrupted. aya in countries outside South America is a novelty. it's a rediculous comparison. religion (think of what's encompassed by this word) is not to humans what the physical act of drinking aya is to the production of wellbeing. churches have been around for a long time, and indeed they do harbour pedos and cause all sorts of problems. but hallucinogens can fuck up peoples minds, and i mean proper fuck them. so can religions, but so can car accidents, CO poisoning, even drinking too much water.

Soooooo, your point is? That aya should be treated the same as water? you are not making much sense here.

there are no Christian water cults, and if there were i doubt it would be as easy to convince their members to off a baby by burning it alive.

There are plenty of other christian cults that kill babies. That's what i keep saying: google infant sacrifice and see how many are related to drugs and how many are related to religions. You will find the vast majority are due to religions, and amongst those christians [mostly in africa] are at the top of the list. They also still burn witches and hunt albinos. No drugs required... just a good dose of Jesus.

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fair call, it's not my place to have commented on your medical problems. nevertheless:

Soooooo, your point is? That aya should be treated the same as water? you are not making much sense here.

the point is, and the reason i commented in the first place was you posted that you don't think it has anything to do with ayahuasca. i have been saying it is a significant variable. the fuck can you not see that, from my very first post in this thread. that is why i am saying you're immature. because you said it had nothing to do with it. go back and read it. its in the last page.

you don't think i understand questions and replies? / ok. good one.

There are plenty of other christian cults that kill babies. That's what i keep saying: google infant sacrifice and see how many are related to drugs and how many are related to religions. You will find the vast majority are due to religions, and amongst those christians [mostly in africa] are at the top of the list. They also still burn witches and hunt albinos. No drugs required... just a good dose of Jesus.

i'll leave you to make the erudite conclusions there big fella, based on your l1te google research skills

Entheogens have helped me because even in my darkest days I felt connected and with a purpose,

this is the closest that whole post got to what i was trying to get out of you with my second post. and you know what - most people say they get the same from having a family, close friends, or even a fucking cat.

why do you use the word entheogen if you say you're an athiest? remember the time i asked you why you support the alignment of hallucinogens with religion for political purposes, when you openly admit you don't believe? explain to me again why that's not disengenuous?

knowing that my suffering helps others and that's what's kept me motivated.

... ? really. ok then. if only those poor Africans could get a good dose of Torsten, eh ..

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I believe the original question was directed at a Mr Rhetorical

ok, i get that now

I'm sorry that 'the entheogens' have failed to meet your expectations in this instance, inasmuch as for so many others they have been a source of enlightenment which radiates out into the wider community </sarcasm>.

I'd back off roundabout now if I were you, before you make a dick of yourself, T has spent more time sorting out more stuff for himself and a large number of other people than you'll ever know. I doubt this would directly be attributed to entheogen consumption, however the issues around them have been a remarkable catalyst for change in lot of ppl- some of which can be credited to the effort he has put in over the last 15 years IRL with those issues and people

sorting stuff out? could you be more vague?

I have never heard T say or imply that he was an example for anyone to follow. Your question is irrelevant, unless of course you are hoping some great leader will spring fully formed from the eyebrows of Zeus and be everything you need to get us all through the next millennia, and you're down on T because he isn't. You're not implying that, are you?

Don't agree with you there, novelty is a significant driving force for human beings. The fact that it gets hijacked by idiots doesn't stop it from being powerful. You can buy random shit off ebay on your iPad, but you can also use the magnifying/ microscope app to analyse blood for parasites in remote areas. Neither was possible ten years ago. A hundred years ago most women of EU origin had an horrendous mortality rate during childbirth. It's good ( and, to use your word again, powerful ) that people chose to adopt novel methods which kicked those stats in the guts. Etc

yep you clearly missunderstand. don't think 'powerful', think numbers. of people. the point is not that new things are ... , it's that genuinely new perspectives, new activities, new things - are at their weakest point - in relation to the degree of support which the world affords them - when they first emerge. that's what i'm saying. it would be a lot easier to destroy those iphone apps now than it will be in 100 years. it's not saying they're good or bad. the insight is not a moral or emotional one, it relates to the tendencies which all new things have. new things are good/bad/indifferent. and yes people, chimps, birds, etc do like novelty. but thatt's not the point.

Do you always make this little sense?

only on a good day ;)

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the point is, and the reason i commented in the first place was you posted that you don't think it has anything to do with ayahuasca. i have been saying it is a significant variable. the fuck can you not see that, from my very first post in this thread. that is why i am saying you're immature. because you said it had nothing to do with it. go back and read it. its in the last page.

I know what i wrote and we obviously have different opinions. Cults make human sacrifices all the time and in most cases drugs play no part, so why would one that includes aya suddenly be all about aya rather than all about the cult's psychology? I agree that drugs make it easier to exert control over others, but indoctrination is a far more common factor.

i'll leave you to make the erudite conclusions there big fella, based on your l1te google research skills

If your skills are greater than why not post some relevant links or research results? I propose that your method of research is probably not much different to mine otherwise you would have already posted examples of drug related infanticide reports.

The highest rate of child sacrifice is in uganda, where it is a thriving industry. There it is based on witchcraft that guarantees wealth to the person paying for the sacrifice. Witchcraft is often intertwined with christianity there, but it does't really matter which belief system leads to the horror of child sacrifice - the point is that it does not involve drugs. There have also been a couple of cases in the UK by african families.

other african countries such as somalia, kenya, etc also practive human sacrifice, with children and albinos [especially albino children] being the main targets. Pretty much all african countries that practice withcraft either by itself or as a christian fusion also have occasions of child sacrifice.

There are also incidences of child sacrifices in south america and haiti.

In addition to all the sacrifices based on belief systems, one should also really count religion based infanticide [in particular girls] into it because the psychology behind it is not that different.

In comparison try and find child sacrifices that involve drugs. Yes, there are a few because theya re usually in western countries and well publicised for their shock value, but do you know of a single one where religion did not play a role?

Don't forget that the original definition of sacrifice itself was about giving up something of value for a deity.

I don't think drugs had much to do with this case because there are plenty of instances of people doing really fucked up things [not just child murder] under the influence of religion where drugs play no role at all. Aya would have certainly made the memebrs of the cult more open to the influence of the leader, but we know from WACO, the various Mormon standoffs, etc that people will do the same shit without drugs. The one common denominator however is a strong and usually twiested belief system whether that is a bona fide religion, witchcraft, or american liberty nuts.

this is the closest that whole post got to what i was trying to get out of you with my second post. and you know what - most people say they get the same from having a family, close friends, or even a fucking cat.

You obviously do not experience this which is why you don't understand it. people don't feel universal connectedness by owning a cat. A cat just gives connectedness to the one being/object. It may in time teach you some empathy, but that's still a long way from connectedness. Most people experience universal connectedness from religion, near death experiences, sometimes meditation, or occasionally from a special enlightened moment. Entheogens are a shortcut to this for some.

why do you use the word entheogen if you say you're an athiest?

I also use the word god even though i don't believe in one. I use the word prayer even though to me it just means speakign into thin air. You don't have to believe in a word to be allowed to use its accepted meaning. Entheogen refers to a particular set of substances and plants that many feel have enthoegenic value. I don't. I feel they all have an interesting serotonin related pharmacology that is as yet not fully elucidated. I believe that in the future we will find the pharmacological processes that underly what forms the entheogenic experience for others. Once we know that entheogenic pharmacology does that mean we can no longer call those plants entheogens? obviously not.

remember the time i asked you why you support the alignment of hallucinogens with religion for political purposes, when you openly admit you don't believe? explain to me again why that's not disengenuous?

It is not disengenuous because I am not hiding the fact. The fact that you [a relative stranger] know it and the fact it is plastered all over these forums makes that pretty clear I thought.

I have never pretended to be a supporter of SD or UdV other than for political reasons.

If the law was truely secular it would provide me with an option where I did not have to use religion as a vehicle for change. This is a human rights issue and if that means having to ride a religion loophole to bring about change then so be it. Luckily my political work over the last couple of years has actually made that largely superfluous anyway.

... ? really. ok then. if only those poor Africans could get a good dose of Torsten, eh ..

I am not that ambitious. I am happy to help improve the lives of a few where I can. Given your tone and attitude I doubt you make many sacrifices for others or spend a good portion of your life to improve the freedom, equality, wellbeing or QoL of others.

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you're good value, i'll give you that

I know what i wrote and we obviously have different opinions. Cults make human sacrifices all the time and in mo I agree that drugs make it easier to exert control over others, but indoctrination is a far more common factor.st cases drugs play no part, so why would one that includes aya suddenly be all about aya rather than all about the cult's psychology?

Boom! that's all i wanted. as above, i posted because you, as someone people generally listen to here, posted these words

Ayahuasca had nothing to do with it.

which i maintain, is a fucking immature thing for a person in your position to say.

If your skills are greater than why not post some relevant links or research results? I propose that your method of research is probably not much different to mine otherwise you would have already posted examples of drug related infanticide reports.

The highest rate of child sacrifice is in uganda, where it is a thriving industry. There it is based on witchcraft that guarantees wealth to the person paying for the sacrifice. Witchcraft is often intertwined with christianity there, but it does't really matter which belief system leads to the horror of child sacrifice - the point is that it does not involve drugs. There have also been a couple of cases in the UK by african families.

other african countries such as somalia, kenya, etc also practive human sacrifice, with children and albinos [especially albino children] being the main targets. Pretty much all african countries that practice withcraft either by itself or as a christian fusion also have occasions of child sacrifice.

There are also incidences of child sacrifices in south america and haiti.

In addition to all the sacrifices based on belief systems, one should also really count religion based infanticide [in particular girls] into it because the psychology behind it is not that different.

In comparison try and find child sacrifices that involve drugs. Yes, there are a few because theya re usually in western countries and well publicised for their shock value, but do you know of a single one where religion did not play a role?

Don't forget that the original definition of sacrifice itself was about giving up something of value for a deity.

I don't think drugs had much to do with this case because there are plenty of instances of people doing really fucked up things [not just child murder] under the influence of religion where drugs play no role at all. Aya would have certainly made the memebrs of the cult more open to the influence of the leader, but we know from WACO, the various Mormon standoffs, etc that people will do the same shit without drugs. The one common denominator however is a strong and usually twiested belief system whether that is a bona fide religion, witchcraft, or american liberty nuts.

what you're missing here, and why i question your 'research skills' ( the list of academic journals i have access to are just here, so yes they are different, and trust me i would research this if i wanted to) .. is that i never said there is a causal link between ayahuasca and sacraficing, or that the one is entirely reducible to the other. yes, religious indoctrination played a part - tick - we get that. but look at the words Torsten it says i think ayahuasca was a significant variable. you're right that there are no studies titled 'baby sacraficing as a function of ayahuasca intake' but i maintain you are naive for saying it had nothing to do with it.

I also use the word god even though i don't believe in one. I use the word prayer even though to me it just means speakign into thin air. You don't have to believe in a word to be allowed to use its accepted meaning. Entheogen refers to a particular set of substances and plants that many feel have enthoegenic value. I don't. I feel they all have an interesting serotonin related pharmacology that is as yet not fully elucidated. I believe that in the future we will find the pharmacological processes that underly what forms the entheogenic experience for others. Once we know that entheogenic pharmacology does that mean we can no longer call those plants entheogens? obviously not.

the point is when most people use the words they have no faith in to refer to things which according to them do not corrospond to the meaning of the term they're using, they do so derisively. they will put ' ' marks around it as in the 'virgin mother' or something, and not give the impression that they are using the word in the same sense that those who believe it would use.

It is not disengenuous because I am not hiding the fact. The fact that you [a relative stranger] know it and the fact it is plastered all over these forums makes that pretty clear I thought.

I have never pretended to be a supporter of SD or UdV other than for political reasons.

If the law was truely secular it would provide me with an option where I did not have to use religion as a vehicle for change. This is a human rights issue and if that means having to ride a religion loophole to bring about change then so be it. Luckily my political work over the last couple of years has actually made that largely superfluous anyway.

what political work? i've never heard of anything being changed by you at the level of politics. show me the cases? my point to you is that if you go after this openly admitting that you're exploiting a loophole people will just laugh at you. it's rediculous.

You obviously do not experience this which is why you don't understand it. people don't feel universal connectedness by owning a cat. A cat just gives connectedness to the one being/object. It may in time teach you some empathy, but that's still a long way from connectedness. Most people experience universal connectedness from religion, near death experiences, sometimes meditation, or occasionally from a special enlightened moment. Entheogens are a shortcut to this for some.

the fuck are you to say what does and doesn't give people a sense of connectedness ? how is that not just egotism?

Given your tone and attitude I doubt you make many sacrifices for others or spend a good portion of your life to improve the freedom, equality, wellbeing or QoL of others.

you infer all that stuff from my tone and the attitude i show in saying that ayahuasca was a significant variable in that situation? in reality, big fella, i'm just now about to enter post-graduate study in a field whose clinical side is concerned solely with the above described qualities, so give me warn points or band be, but in relation to what you are accusing me in ^ section of text, basically - you can fuck off.

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what you're missing here, and why i question your 'research skills' ( the list of academic journals i have access to are just here, so yes they are different, and trust me i would research this if i wanted to) .. is that i never said there is a causal link between ayahuasca and sacraficing, or that the one is entirely reducible to the other. yes, religious indoctrination played a part - tick - we get that. but look at the words Torsten it says i think ayahuasca was a significant variable. you're right that there are no studies titled 'baby sacraficing as a function of ayahuasca intake' but i maintain you are naive for saying it had nothing to do with it.

I'd take a serious look at how you are viewing this. One incident out of millions is hardly a call for alarm. Statistically, it is an anomaly. Bit like saying that all pencils can kill because someone used one to poke someone's eye out once. Especially when you realise that Ayahuasca is a tool a bit like a pencil, because of it's ability to help people experience and disseminate knowledge.

In many ways, I am sure pencils have been used for harm a lot more than Ayahuasca has. This reminds us that Ayahuasca is a tool, nothing more. Albeit, a very powerful tool. But then, so is the pencil.

To be honest, if you get warn points it will purely be for the way you have written your posts. There's a lot of latent aggression in the sheer quantity of "fucks" you have written, and calling Torsten big man smacks of a double entendre when you have already called him out on being overweight on a thread which has got nothing whatsoever to do with it, apart from the fact you see it as the outward expression of someone who isn't enlightened enough to speak on these issues.

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some wisdom from whitewind

Any tool can be used for harm..

next post

Screwdrivers are a very powerful tool, as are cars; screwdrivers have been used to kill, and cars kill randomly and by accident very frequently.

next post

Can you use these tools for other purposes and how likely is it?

again:

In many ways, I am sure pencils have been used for harm a lot more than Ayahuasca has. This reminds us that Ayahuasca is a tool, nothing more. Albeit, a very powerful tool. But then, so is the pencil.

so tools can, be used for .. only one purpose? or .. no wait .. one purpose can be used for .. no, no. wait, can you just say that again whitewind? i almost got it :lol::lol:

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it's rediculous.

i'm just now about to enter post-graduate study

What I find ridiculous is your inability to spell the word "rediculous"...considering you're about to start post-grad studies.

Please don't tell me it's another psych student ... :slap:

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OMG Mr T caught feeding the trolls.

To recap the undeniable facts.

1. Aya use was a factor in this sect.

2. Some bent version of christianity was also a factor.

What would Jesus say?

Something unfeasibly wise.

Would Jesus condone using Aya?

possibly

Child Sacrifice?

I don't think so.

Monastic Christianity is the foundation of much European intellectual tradition.

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To recap the undeniable facts.

1. Aya use was a factor in this sect.

"Members apparently consumed ayahuasca...."

Show me the money!

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Boom! that's all i wanted. as above, i posted because you, as someone people generally listen to here, posted these words

sorry if you wet your pants prematurely, but I did not link the drug use to the sacrifice. I linked the use of ayahuasca to the dynamics set up within the sect. And I am referring specifically to the way psychedelics can accelerate the process of sociopaths gaining control over their subjects. I am in no way suggesting that aya contributed to the final goal of total control, but rather that it simply accelerated the progress towards that goal. Whether that then ends up in an orgy, the expectation of being beamed to the comet behind the moon, a mass suicide, or a child sacrifice makes no difference.

what you're missing here, and why i question your 'research skills' ( the list of academic journals i have access to are just here, so yes they are different, and trust me i would research this if i wanted to)

Posting a list of academic journals does not mean you know how to do research or even how to read them. I have full access to journals from UNE, Monash and UNSW [and others if I asked/needed]... so what? You're not going to find a lot of academic papers on child sacrifice other than uganda, religious history and forensics. None of which really help with the issue.

the point is when most people use the words they have no faith in to refer to things which according to them do not corrospond to the meaning of the term they're using, they do so derisively. they will put ' ' marks around it as in the 'virgin mother' or something, and not give the impression that they are using the word in the same sense that those who believe it would use.

meh, givin your crappy writing style I am unlikely to take english lessons from you.

To me it all depends on who you are talking to. if the reader believes in God then why should I put it in quotation marks? That would just confuse things.

what political work? i've never heard of anything being changed by you at the level of politics. show me the cases?

To be honest, from your previous posts in political discussions I can only assume that you are too dumb to understand how the system works and hence sharing my work with you would only lead to damage one way or another. The people who need to know already know. I'll show you the cases when your interference can't do any damage anymore. I am not going to jeopardise what amounts to more work per week for the last 3 years than you probably do for your studies just to score points in a pissing contest with a nobody.

my point to you is that if you go after this openly admitting that you're exploiting a loophole people will just laugh at you. it's rediculous.

History would indicate otherwise [see women's rights, medical cannabis in the USA and Europe, drug reform in NZ, etc]. Your ignorance in these matters really leaves you unqualified to comment. It doesn't matter whether I am exploiting a loophole as long as the original complainant is a true case.

you infer all that stuff from my tone and the attitude i show in saying that ayahuasca was a significant variable in that situation? in reality, big fella, i'm just now about to enter post-graduate study in a field whose clinical side is concerned solely with the above described qualities, so give me warn points or band be, but in relation to what you are accusing me in ^ section of text, basically - you can fuck off.

There is a big difference between helping people for career & money or doing it out of generosity. or as space cadet says "not another psych student", LOL.

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OMG Mr T caught feeding the trolls.

Haha, yes, but I do have my reasons ;) [which should be apparent to a psych student, so maybe he is not, or maybe he is just crap at it. B) ]

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I wonder if that cult leader studied psychology at uni? Probably learned how to control people using the evil drugs when he was there.

I think the beard is a giveaway to my theory.

And I'm pretty sure pencils were a factor in that sect. In some way shape or form.

I mean honestly, with some of the responses on this thread it's no wonder that so many people think drugs are evil. If we ourselves are going to sit around and exclaim Ayahuasca was a factor or it can cause people to sacrifice babies, then we might as well give up and let them finish the war on drugs and offer ourselves up as sacrifices to the latest god of fascism.

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Being quite uneducated myself, could someone please clarify for me, the psych student stereotype?? The only couple of people I know who did psychology, went back to it at a mature age...

Yes, I'm just ignoring everything else in this thread...I know this is off topic, but it's already way off track :)

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