Francois le Danque Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) Hello all, I hope your sundays are more pleasant than mine. I also hope someone can offer me advice. Recently I got picked up by those pretend police that patrol the trains in Melbourne for having my feet on the seat. Although I think this is a bullshit law that doesn't cause anyone any injustice (the train was empty and my feet were socked and clean), I still concede that I knowingly broke the law and got caught. (It sucks because I was even hyper-paranoid and looked for 'speccies at every stop! Bastards sneaked up on me!) Anyway: they also got me for "failing to produce a valid ticket". Now this time it is pure bullshit because I did indeed have a valid ticket; I don't fare evade because I am a heavy supporter of public transport. What happened was: i used myki (the electronic ticketing system which is now the only option in Melbourne) at the station immediately prior to boarding the train, as per usual. However when the inspector scanned my ticket with his little scanner thing, it said I had not touched my ticket at the station. However I did, and I had also used it immediately prior which should have also been good enough. The part where it gets really tricky is that the fines were due today (even though it's a Sunday, and you have to pay at post offices, and as Vernon Dursley says "There's no post on sunday!"). I forgot about them until today :S. Further, I cannot possibly afford to pay either of the $207 fines because my bank account is -$150. I want to submit a claim to have the matter reviewed, but this must be done by post, by the due date. Tomorrow I will seek legal counsel at my university, but for the time being: does anyone have any ideas? I really don't want both fines to go up by 100 dollars. I will be very sad. Thanks for your time. edit: PS I now live in Sydney, I don't suppose my interstate fines will just disappear will they....? Edited March 24, 2013 by frank Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
in_spirit Posted March 24, 2013 Wait for a letter and then send it back to them withrefused for cause - no contract plastered over the front label. Keep doing same with each follow up letter. Their is no contract it is unilateral. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tarenna Posted March 24, 2013 Ahhh... The ol' interstate fine miazma.... I am aware of a situation where fines imposed by a private company through a public agency charted with collection of fines and other debt (late payment penalties for tolls) from Qld were sent to a NSW licence holder with numerous threats that his licence would be suspended/cancelled whatever... End result (to this point in time) there was no jurisdictional mechanism that enable cancellation of a NSW licence for a late fee for a Qld toll.... But I think if ever he goes to Qld again he better be pretty careful because I suspect that Qld fuzz would have the jurisdictional power to take some form of punitive action... Sounds like public transport fuzz were absolutely fucked in their treatment of you.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Francois le Danque Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) in spirit: I am sorry but i have no idea what you mean tarenna: no they treated me fine (no pun intended), he was very polite. that's just how it is in victoria. can't go outside without getting a fine for some nonsense. did you read about my other dealings with the DoT? http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29776&hl=railway why won't they just let me catch the train? Edited March 24, 2013 by frank 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tarenna Posted March 24, 2013 Hi Frank No I had not read about your previous dealings with DoT - will have a read when time allows. Hope my advice has been of some worth.. Good luck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scarecrow Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) oh god, myki... i can't believe these bastards are getting away with spending 1.5 billion taxpayer dollars on a downgrade to ease of use and reliability of the perfectly good system we already had in place. not to mention how unforgiving the metcops are, despite how clearly flawed and buggy (and prone to overcharging) the new system is... so we're blind to how much we're paying, and getting fined and charged at every opportunity... almost seems like they're doing everything everything they can to suck our wallets dry. as far as i'm concerned, we shouldn't have to pay for service that doesn't meet our expectations; like you'd refuse to pay for a terrible meal at a restaurant. i am pretty sure this is the only logical explanation for all this nonsense i haven't got any experience about dealing with fines like this, but i wish you the best of luck. at least you won't have to worry about this shit in future, living in another state. Edited March 24, 2013 by Scarecrow 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted March 24, 2013 It's pretty simple. If you really are innocent, and there's something wrong with the machines, simply do not pay the fines. You can be called to a magistrate to explain why. You are innocent until proven guilty, which means some form of evidence. Pretend police testimony that a scanner registered no entry is pretty weak evidence, especially if you're arguing some wrong of the machine. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delilah Posted March 25, 2013 If you really are innocent, and there's something wrong with the machines, simply do not pay the fines. You can be called to a magistrate to explain why. You are innocent until proven guilty, which means some form of evidence. Pretend police testimony that a scanner registered no entry is pretty weak evidence, especially if you're arguing some wrong of the machine. Yes, that sounds right. Definitely do not pay a fine for something you have not done. I can't even bear to think about the trivial Big Brother arrogance of fining someone for resting their clean socked feet on a seat, but on the more controllable matter of being fined in error for the ticket I would say it is extremely important that you persist and ensure justice. It's quite possible that their machines are making errors, or worse that their staff are abusing their powers for profit. Either way, the public lose so I see it as a civic duty to play your part in making sure that the situation is resolved correctly, and that they understand they may have a problem to fix at their end. I suggest that you just persist in stating the facts clearly and politely, broken-record style (just repeat the same info), each time you receive a notice to pay. Send your replies recorded delivery. So you might write something like "I did X. I am absolutely certain of this. Please check your Y machine and security video. Because I definitely did scan my ticket I am very concerned that there may be a fault in machine Z, and/or in staff's use of it, resulting in many other members of the public potentially also being fined in error. As you can imagine, this experience also makes me very uneasy and reluctant to continue using the train service. Accordingly, please revoke this fine and let me know that this has been done." Adding what you said about being a civic-minded rail system supporter may also be a nice touch. Good luck. Keep at it. Even calling them may help - explaining the issue. Paper is very impersonal and just gets mindlessly processed by junior administrators. If you call and ask to speak with a supervisor, request their help and advice on how to approach this situation, and express your concerns, you may get somewhere. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigred Posted March 25, 2013 it happened to a foaf some one had found his walllet and was using his id and they racked up about 1200 he argued with sper and this is the funny bit he was in jail when the tickets were issued and is still fighting it .You think that would of sent off alarm bells when they ran his name but no. They said they sent a letter to his postal address giving him 30 days to contest (so basically they say he cant do much about it ) WTF!!! now he is working of his fines with community service . So what will happen when he pays it all off Sorry about the rant but i feel your going to have a nightmare with it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naja naja Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) I recently travelled to melbourne, I attempted to board the tram with cash, good ol cash. But alas, I had to walk 1km down the road to buy some shitty thing called a myki or watever it's called, I was only there for 2 days, so boy was that a great investment. I blipped at every time i got on and very soon my money was gone, like $10 per person in very little time. I travelled the wrong way alot of the time and regularly got off one station too early as the signage system was utter shit, 2 trams travelling opposite ways with the same destination, yeah thats really clear guys. I had to load more money on a card I will never use again or if I do it will be after the 3 year period in which it will expire if not continually used. ass fuckers! Edited March 27, 2013 by naja naja Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweeet Posted April 17, 2013 IANAL but... Re feet on seat, if there are 3-4 witnesses then I don't see you getting out of that. Now you have made an admission but not sure in what fashion so may be irrelevant, but you're probably best to plead guilty on that charge. Re ticket, you _may_ be able to defend it but it would be on the weight of evidence. If you're asking for advice on this forum then I don't like your chances. A good lesson - NEVER ignore these things or leave them to the last minute. I recently received a letter to the Magistrates' Court and demanded the brief of evidence the next day. I was advised by Legal Aid it must be provided within 14 days. Until you see the brief of evidence it is difficult to know how strong the case is against you. Just be aware that some "infringement enforcement bodies" can claim costs, so if you try and defend the charges you may be hit with a costs order as well as the fine. One last point - ONLY COURTS CAN ISSUE FINES. Have you actually received a summons yet, or just infringement notices/infringement reminder notices? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
