Jump to content
The Corroboree
mushroomman

grafting trichocereus areoles

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

i have been trying to do some areole grafts lately with no success so far and was wondering if anyone here has any tips to improve my chances fo success? Any help will be much appreciated :)

here are some pics of some i done today

8C7B80A2-57B5-43BC-B8C5-13A5224E2B85-128

A9FBF946-9D2C-47D1-B764-07896D02AF6D-12808156886-8823-4337-9CA2-64855A5831AB-128

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i remeber some threads about this, if i feel energetic, i will search them for you.

one thing i'm quite sure to remeber is, that the areole, get's cut much thinner, than the ones in your pic.

in other words, they recommanded to cut most of the white stuff away, before grafting.

everything else you done looks good to me! :)

unless, the tape doesn't produce enough constant downward pressure, if that's the case (the white stuff compresses easely) put some weight on top of the areole (i use big washers and nuts, but even two or one small stone might do the trick.

good luck!

Edited by planthelper
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks , I will go and remove one of them and cut it thinner and regraft it . I'll let you know how it goes :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

your post inspired me, and i did a search, but the only real new info i can come up with is, that people suggested, younger areoles are prefered over older ones (lower down the cactus).

i will try some tomorrow, might even use peres as stock aswell.

i had tried this once before and failed, but now i'm motivated again, seeing your pics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks planthelper ,

i just cut two down to about 4-5mm thick and taped them down really tight.

i will be over the moon if even just one of these works :)

good luck with your's

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Havent actually tried aerole grafting before, will try v.soon when I can find enough stocks and different species of trikes and lophs. But from what one of my good friends recommend is opuntia..spineless preferably haha

He has multiple aeroles across the top of one pad maybe upwards of 6.

Apparently makes it easier beacause the vascular line is horizontal instead of circular making it easier to take. :)

Hope this helps someone!

Weazelloph

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it seems that people, have different tastes in regards, of which stock to use, opuntia, hylocereus are just two, who jump to mind now, apart from peres and echinopsis.

virgor of the stock and how easy the stock handles are major factors, but for me echinopsis will always be my favorite, because of it's esthetic value, pedro grafts just look better, than the rest, imo.

if, i don't find a graft pleasing to the eye, than i will not love it enough to take proper care of it.

can't wait for tomorrow, as it will be grafting time again, i never get bored of this action.

the part i like the best, is the preparation of the tools needed and the selection of the plants in question, once i smell the metho, wipeing down my blades, i'm entering 7th heaven.

Edited by planthelper
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi, sablings!

i spend a lot of time taking pics and editing, so you bloody better read this, and click this thread often.

no i'm joking, but i learned sooo much today, and i'm sure, this reply, contains good info.

click on the pics to enlarge them!

1, pic of my selected echinopsis, taken today, and already showing the sunken core.

note, i trimmed and shaped the echinopsis, already 24h before this shot.

shaping the pedro and waiting for the core to sink, and than doing the grafting, will give much better results, as the scion will not get pushed off, once the area starts to dry up.

post-70-0-76323000-1361841805_thumb.jpg

2, this pic shows what i learned today, and i'v never seen a pic like it.

it shows the vascular bundles, in crossection, shaped like an upside down V.

post-70-0-96613700-1361842042_thumb.jpg

3, this pic shows the trimmed lophophora areole, from the top.

post-70-0-78974200-1361842229_thumb.jpg

4, this pic shows the areole, from the bottom, note one can barely notice the vascular ring, again a new thing for me to see.

post-70-0-43247600-1361842357_thumb.jpg

as we all know, those rings need to be matched up, with the ring of the stock.

small rings, like above, one tries to match up with the stock's, ring, but if they are bigger, do the olympic rings thing. if the are of different size, aim the small one, anywhere matching the bigger one.

5, all finished for today, i hope they take, it's a rainy day here.

note, i used different methodes to keep the scion in place, washers and pantyhose.

post-70-0-33056100-1361842805_thumb.jpg

echinopsis_sunk_core.JPG

loph_vascular_bundle.JPG

loph_areole.JPG

loph_areole_vascular_ring.JPG

loph_areole_grafting_finished.JPG

echinopsis_sunk_core.JPG

loph_vascular_bundle.JPG

loph_areole.JPG

loph_areole_vascular_ring.JPG

loph_areole_grafting_finished.JPG

Edited by planthelper
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wishing you success mushroom-man good effort! will be waiting for the updates...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wishing you success mushroom-man good effort! will be waiting for the updates...

Thanks blownG, one has already failed :( the other 2 still look ok if they all fail I'll keep trying different ways till I get one to work :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hi, sablings!

i spend a lot of time taking pics and editing, so you bloody better read this, and click this thread often.

no i'm joking, but i learned sooo much today, and i'm sure, this reply, contains good info.

click on the pics to enlarge them!

1, pic of my selected echinopsis, taken today, and already showing the sunken core.

note, i trimmed and shaped the echinopsis, already 24h before this shot.

shaping the pedro and waiting for the core to sink, and than doing the grafting, will give much better results, as the scion will not get pushed off, once the area starts to dry up.

attachicon.gifhttp://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=34801'>echinopsis_sunk_core.JPG

2, this pic shows what i learned today, and i'v never seen a pic like it.

it shows the vascular bundles, in crossection, shaped like an upside down V.

attachicon.gifhttp://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=34802'>loph_vascular_bundle.JPG

3, this pic shows the trimmed lophophora areole, from the top.

attachicon.gifhttp://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=34803'>loph_areole.JPG

4, this pic shows the areole, from the bottom, note one can barely notice the vascular ring, again a new thing for me to see.

attachicon.gifhttp://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=34804'>loph_areole_vascular_ring.JPG

as we all know, those rings need to be matched up, with the ring of the stock.

small rings, like above, one tries to match up with the stock's, ring, but if they are bigger, do the olympic rings thing. if the are of different size, aim the small one, anywhere matching the bigger one.

5, all finished for today, i hope they take, it's a rainy day here.

note, i used different methodes to keep the scion in place, washers and pantyhose.

attachicon.gifhttp://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=34805'>loph_areole_grafting_finished.JPG

Nice one planthelper, I think lophophora areoles will be easier to get to work due to there softer skin . Good luck with them , I look forward to seeing your results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey MM! Still haven't caught up mate, terrible form from us both!

If these are in the position in your yard I think their in, I'd change the tape for maybe rubber bands or panty hose. You can use toothpicks in your stock to anchor them in or try down to the pot!

I feel under the tape will get a lot of moisture and be a HUGE source of rot?? I don't mean the moisture grafts need either, more a heavy, water drop zone (if that makes sense!)

Ps - camp this satdy at the plant swap? Tell the mrs ill return you by Sunday lunch if you hitch a ride with me!!

Edited by thed00dabides

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey MM! Still haven't caught up mate, terrible form from us both!

If these are in the position in your yard I think their in, I'd change the tape for maybe rubber bands or panty hose. You can use toothpicks in your stock to anchor them in or try down to the pot!

I feel under the tape will get a lot of moisture and be a HUGE source of rot?? I don't mean the moisture grafts need either, more a heavy, water drop zone (if that makes sense!)

Ps - camp this satdy at the plant swap? Tell the mrs ill return you by Sunday lunch if you hitch a ride with me!!

I think the tape might be a problem too but I couldn't find any panty hose here to use , I was trying not to fully cover them up to much so they could breathe but I had to put heaps of tape on them to get enough pressure , do you think poking some pin holes in the tape would be enough to fix the moisture prob?

I just reminded my mrs about this weekend and got the scariest look from her :) lol but i should be able to come ,I'll give you a call Friday arvo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update. All have failed so I had another go today using rubber bands to hold it on :) hopefully i will have better luck this time .

How are your ones going planthelper?

post-1330-0-50638700-1362304127_thumb.jp

post-1330-0-50638700-1362304127_thumb.jpg

post-1330-0-50638700-1362304127_thumb.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was searching for ages the other night looking for good information like this with no luck :) thanks man I really appreciate it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi hello

Nice posts my MM and PH.

I think I disagree the areoles grafted should be less in volume/thickness. Actually I would think quite the opposite.

Here's my take, but note I mostly graft pups, not areoles - I have successfully grafted lopho and leuchtenbergia areoles thoug:

1. why graft areoles of trichocereus? Trichocerei grow so fucking fast and root equally fast that even rooting a 5-7 cm mid cutting will result in faster propagation technique. SO unless you are saving a cactus what died and only have areoles available, and/or you are grafting a rare and/or slower monstrosa form on trichocereus stock, or grafting seedlings to speed things up, I doint think grafting trichocerei areoles is really the best idea.

2. The shape of the plant you would like the areole graft is vital: All genuses/species with tubercled areoles are ideal. Some mammilarias and other genuses too are ideal. Lophophoras, especially from grafted plants have sometimes more or less tubercled areoles. I would guess cutting as much as flesh in the areole intended to graft will increase success rates. Also I would guess that the less cut surface exposed, the more probabilities again. So, when dealing with difficult shaped areoles, like trichocerei, its a good idea to have big sized areoles, as long as you have a good connection, so I would note mess with the grafts as you did them originally, they looked good, but often times rot comes in the first 2-3 days: the cut surface whould not be covered with plastic or else you guarantee the orange fucker will come visit - again!

3. Maybe try a faster stock for you experiments, not trichocerei. My areole grafts were done on Selinicereus.

Cheers and happy grafting!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if I understand right, you could take a trichocereus, and graft every areole on the cutting - and so wind up with like 50 clones from a 12" cutting - is this incorrect?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

update!

i removed the panty hose and weights two day's ago, and all looks good, but i found that 24h of waiting for the core to sink was not enough, with some grafts, but they still took well.

a thicker scion as mutant suggests, would make sence, regarding that they, posess "more meat" (stores more energy) and for that are more likely to survive. the reason why others and myselfe prefered thinner scions, probably has to do, with reducing the surface area of the scion without any skin, and the dillema of aligning the vascular bundles.

i might dissect a pedro areole with it's vascular bundle today, and see what i can see...

maybe they are different to loph areoles, but i will find out.

my current understanding is that "fatter pedro areoles" have advantages and disadvantages over the thinner cuts.

edit: check my next post, i found out that loph and echinopsis areolae, differ greatly in design.

Edited by planthelper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here are the results of the dissection of the echinopsis areolae.

i did not graft any, for the same reason mutant stated.

on the left one can see the thick version, which advantage could be that one cut's in a way to totaly expose the inner core vascular bundle, which ought to give, a large area, capable of fusing.

note the scion could be cutted even a bit smaller, and still the central core would be clearly visible.

the right one shows a thinn scion, and the vascular bundle is hardly visible, but i incircled it.

from this draw your own conclusions, my preference would be with the left, because it exposes far less flesh. but maybe aligment is an issue.

the right one would pose no aligment issues, but exposes a lot of flesh, and maybe, the central core is not ideal as a fusion point. aswell the exchange of fluids would have to travell much further.

post-70-0-33033400-1362369169_thumb.jpg

this pic just shows a cross section of an echinopsis, to show the central core vascular bundle, and the radiating bundles to the areolae (short like and like the fingers of a watch). those fingers or strings, don't go horizontal into the core, but with a slight angle. meaning if you prepare a areolae scion with the areola in the centre, the vascular bundle will come out a bit lower.

post-70-0-73249300-1362369371_thumb.jpg

areolae_sicions_encircled.jpg

echinopsis_crosscut_areolae_ vascular bundles.JPG

areolae_sicions_encircled.jpg

echinopsis_crosscut_areolae_ vascular bundles.JPG

Edited by planthelper
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know you might feed a slightly dehydrated plant dyed water as kind of a "contrast agent" for visualization of the vascular system. I'm not sure if it would work, but if it would that would make for some really interested photos and I think make it easier to determine the best sized/shaped scion for grafting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mira, i thought of how nice it would be to color the bundles, but failed thinking how to do it.

i guess it would have to be a very special staining agent, probably something used in medicine and microscopy which i have no access to.

btw, if one compares the loph to echinopsis, it seems, loph areolae display a cone shaped vascular bundle, going towards the centre core, whilst echinopsis display just a small cylindrical "string", entering the central core.

Edited by planthelper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey mutant,

The only reason I have been trying to graft trich areoles is because I had to cut a couple inches of my validus stump because it started rotting down the core so I thought I'd have a go grafting some of the areoles that are still good instead of just throwing the whole section away .

I have found that the areoles with more flesh left on are the first to fail for me , now I have started trying these grafts I'm not going to stop till I get one to work :) I'm onto my last validus areole now if that fails I will start using one of my peruvianus and tbm's until I have success.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^ Love your determination mate, keep the posts coming :wink: !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×