Psychoactive and other botanical PERFUMEs

[mindperformer]

I have made lotus wine with blue lotus petals and sweet wine, like the egyptians and had a very clear and slightly euphoric mellow experience, and years ago a friend gave me vodka with the oil in it, which was more intense

I have never tried to extract the flower petals with perfumers alcohol because you don't get the scent by this way, it is more bitter and much less flowery than the oil, as the teas were, I remember

In the Egyptians collection of the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna you can see many steles and paintings with blue lotus flowers on it

Edited February 21, 2013 by mindperformer

[planthelper]

mp, so what does one use to disolve the ambergries?

i know, it's probably solvents which you did mention already, but i don't want to experiment, right at the beginning.

[mindperformer]

you need at least 75% alcohol, better 80-90%

I don't use denaturated alcohol, although it would be cheaper because you don't pay the alco-tax for it, but it often contains 2-Methyl-2,4-pentanediol

Look for 80% Corn/grain, it is more neutral and also cheaper than spirit of wine,

here you get 1 litre corn for €16 in the super market

what do you want to do with the solution?

for perfumes you only need a very small amount as fixative

it combines well with musk- notes like from Abelmoschus moschatus- seeds and Angelica dahurica- root

you could add some freshness and a kind of floral waxy smell with cilantro-aldehydes (I extracted them with liquid paraffin from fresh coriander leaves, then strained, extracted with 80% alcohol, separated with a dropping bottle and filtrated the alcohol.

the scent of the sea can also be underlined with Violet leaf- extracts (fresh watery, cucumber-like),

Limnophila aromatica extracts (smells watery like melon, lemony fresh and like the air after a thunderstorm)

and kombu seaweed extracts (a brown alga with a better scent than nori).

The scent of the sea on a beach is caused by Dimethyl sulfide from degrading organic compounds and Dictyopterene, a pheromone in brown alga.

I tried to extract the scent of the sea from many things, including pieces of (dead) corals, greenshell mussel shells (also an enfleurage from the cooking water), nori alga and many more, but the best raw material seemed to be Kombu alga.

I chopped the kombu-stripes (like leather) and steamed them in a sieve over boiling water, to swell up a bit. Then I extracted them for a few days with 80% alcohol, strained and put the alcohol aside. Then cooked the alga with a very small amount of water, strained and combined the water- and alcohol extracts, then filtrate the solution, which should have at least 75% alcohol.

How would you describe the scent exactly? is it more powdery, or amber-resin-like, or like musk?

On some site the scent of the real thing is described as having labdanum and clary sage- notes in it, which fits exactly to the phytochemical studies, which found Ambroxan in Labdanum and Clary sage.

quote from this site:

http://www.ambergristincture.com/perfumers-perspective.php

They have, for example, been told that the sure sign of the use of Ambergris in a perfume is a spicy, musky or amber base note. This of course, is far from the truth.

I have purchased bottle after bottle of oils claiming to be "real Ambergris oil" only to receive something powdery, sweet or balsamic, smelling of Benzoin, Vanilla, and Labdanum or else having a herbal note from Clary Sage and similar oils.

Edited February 21, 2013 by mindperformer

[planthelper]

the only thing, i can buy is polish spirit, it's very expensive, but i think around 90% or a bit more.

i can't describe the smell, any better than i did, sorry.

it's musky, scatol, sweet, a bit ocean, a bit colophonium (so yes amber like), and now i have to go adventures, crushed pine needles, x-mas tree, but mixed with fruits or berries, some red wine and oak scent, a bit electrical shortcut smell, a bit of smell like, the air smells after a thunderstorm.

and another thing, many ambergries sellers always say, any others persons ambergries is not as good as theirs, but i'm sure, most of the ambergries sold, comes from non spit outs (watched several tv shows).

[mindperformer]

polish spirit is perfect,

don't take it, if you smell something like wine, but I think the polish rectified Spirytus is made from corn and potato

thanks for odor description, so it seems very complex

Edited February 22, 2013 by mindperformer

[mindperformer]

some odors are too sensitive to extract them directly like lily, violet flower, the "green" from boxwood, aldehydes from cilantro and many flowers.

these can be catched by enfleurage: put the flowers or leaves in nautral (clarified coconut-) fat or liquid paraffin and let them sit for at least one week, then strain and extract the fat with 80% alcohol.

This was also the only method to extract the wonderful complex scent of Chinese Glory Bower (Clerodendrum philippinum), which has its own thread

[coin]

I'm guessing you've read/seen "Perfume: The Story of a Murderer" ?

[mindperformer]

of course ;-)

[wophezuta]

Mindperformer,

Is the clary wort you mentioned in your list the same as clary sage, salvia sclarea? This has been growing in my garden the last few years and the pre-flower buds and flowers are extremely aromatic. I enjoy the aroma, but my wife calls it "stink plant." If I handle the buds or flowers, my hands retain the aroma for the rest of the day, even with hand washing. I've thought about trying to make an absolute or alcochol tincture with it. I'm not sure if it will come back this summer as it's supposed to be a biennial or short lived perennial and this summer will be year 5. Just curious if this the same as the clary wort you mentioned. Thanks

[mindperformer]

yes, clary wort is synonym with clary sage, salvia sclarea

...like Labdanum it is a perfect fixative, as you already recognised ;-),

and the sclareol from the essential oil is used to make Ambroxane

[coin]

mp - you mentioned fungi... do tell

[mindperformer]

fungi are responsible in the formation of Oud in Agarwood,

Oak moss is in fact a lichen and as such a symbiosis of alga and fungi

I will make an absolute from cepe in the near future

fungi-like odor is also present in the scent of Poliomintha longiflora and especially Rungia klossii

Edited February 23, 2013 by mindperformer

[mindperformer]

I like the olibanum tinctures from

Olibanum Omani (high quality, also for chewing): Boswellia sacra syn. carterii

Olibanum Maidi (high quality, also for chewing): Boswellia frereana

Olibanum Eritrea: Boswellia papyrifera

The cembranoid diterpene Incensol acetate was shown to have antidepressant and anxiolytic effects:

its better to translate the german wiki, because there are more infos: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incensol

So Boswellia papyrifera is the main psychoactive species.

Olibanum Eritrea: Boswellia papyrifera

Edited February 23, 2013 by mindperformer

[wophezuta]

An extremely interesting (to me) connection of incensole acetate to the transient receptor potential vanilloid 3 (TRPV3) system is discussed in the article listed below. Easily found with a web search. It may explain, as the investigators point out, why incense has been used in religious and meditative settings over the centuries. Most of the classic plant based psychoactives work on other receptor systems. TRPV3 activation probably has a different "feel" to it than the other receptors. Thanks for the info, MP, very interesting line of study.

FASEB J. 2008 Aug;22(8):3024-34. doi: 10.1096/fj.07-101865. Epub 2008 May 20.

Incensole acetate, an incense component, elicits psychoactivity by activating TRPV3 channels in the brain

Edited February 23, 2013 by wophezuta

[mindperformer]

yes, I have read this article, interesting, but I think the psychoactive activity is weak, regarding many essential oils have compounds, which also activate the TRPV3- receptor, like Thymol, Carvacrol and Eugenol

[mindperformer]

...we never rank first with an idea. The internet indicated once again, there were many other people with the same thought...

First I thought refined coconut-oil is perfect for the rarely described "scented smoke enfleurage" (to catch incense smoke), now I found a description on the internet, how to make it, almost exactly like I did: https://sites.google.com/site/perfumerecipes/tincture-your-own-smoke-with-frankincense

Yesterday I thought on using my new Vanuatu-Kava- extraction also for the perfumes, today I saw this product from a seller for essential oils and absolutes: http://www.edenbotanicals.com/products/essential-oils-pure-therapeutic-grade/essential-oils-k-l/kava-kava-co2.html

[mindperformer]

My new Ambergris- accord (also contains Ambroxane from Labdanum, Tobacco and clary sage, and the natural Ambergris- substitute Canada Balsam):

...for 15ml total (indicated are fraction numbers):

1/4 Civet-Musk-accord tincture (my own, see at the bottom)

1/4 Sea accord (Kombu alga tincture with a bit violet leaf and Limnophila)

2/12 Labdanum tincture

1/12 Tobacco tincture (organic)

1/12 Amber (tincture from roasted fossil amber)

<1/12 Benzoe tincture (Laos)

<1/12 Tolu balm tincture

1 big rod wetting Kanada balm (absolute)

1 smaller rod wetting Clary sage oil

1 drop Iso E Super (smells a bit like Ambergris, more woody musk and blends all components, while also giving profile)

1 needle wetting Sandal wood oil (New Caledonia)

1 needle wetting Oak moss absolute

2 needle wettings Patchouli oil

1 needle wetting Vetiver oil

The Civet-Musk-accord (15ml):

1/2 Boxwood leaf tincture (liquid paraffin-to-alcohol- enfleurage from fresh leaves, smells slightly like cat pee, like Civet)

1/8 Labdanum tincture

1/8 Tobacco tincture (organic)

1/8 Angelica dahurica root tincture (for sweet musk)

1/8 Abelmoschus moschatus seed tincture (classical musk)

8 drops AMT (or dimitri) tincture (indole-, skatole-like natural slightly fecal animalic smelling in the right concentration)

2 drops Iso E Super

1-2 drops Costus (Saussurea lappa root tincture)

2 rod wettings Spikenard oil

1 rod wetting Patchouli oil

1 needle wetting Jasmine absolute

be careful with Abelmoschus and Costus!

Edited February 26, 2013 by mindperformer

[mindperformer]

The Scent of Ethnobotany:

...brings together many odorant entheogens and psychoactive volatile compounds:

a few drops Vitex agnus-castus tincture (seeds and leaves)

1 drop Kaempferia galanga essential oil

1 rod wetting Ratrani (Cestrum nocturnum flower)- not too much, it strongly dominates!

1/2 Damiana tincture

1/8 Tobacco (organic) tincture

1/16 Backhousia citriodora leaves- tincture (antidepressant odor)

<1/16 Alepidea amatymbica root tincture- not too much, it strongly dominates!- really euphoric

1/16 Abelmoschus moschatus seed tincture

1 rod wetting Jasmine absolute- not too much, it strongly dominates!

1 rod wetting Oud oil

1 rod wetting Sassafras oil (Safrole)

1 rod wetting Tuberose absolute

2 drops AMT tincture

1 rod wetting Canada balsam as mild fixative

3 drops Iso E Super as blender

1/16 tincture from Macropiper excelsum leaves and Piper methysticum root (Vanuatu)

1/16 Colanut tincture (smells powdery, like headshop)

1 rod wetting Immortelle (Helichrysum) oil

1/16 Fabiana imbricata tincture (smells resin-like pine forest)

<1/16 Ledum groenlandicum tincture (contains the psychoactive Ledol in the essential oil)

1 rod wetting Tulsi (Ocimum sanctum) oil

1 rod wetting Spikenard oil

a few crystals Borneol

a bit Nepeta mussinii tincture

Edited March 1, 2013 by mindperformer

[mindperformer]

The Strawberry mint (Mentha x piperita var. citrata 'Strawberry') is a poor researched but highly interesting aroma plant:

At first it smells creamy, then like cherry cake and finally like wood strawberries.

I've never heard of its use in perfumery, so I've done it ;-)

[coin]

The Strawberry mint (Mentha x piperita var. citrata 'Strawberry') is a poor researched but highly interesting aroma plant:

At first it smells creamy, then like cherry cake and finally like wood strawberries.

I've never heard of its use in perfumery, so I've done it ;-)

of course you did

[toast]

Very interesting thread.

I've just added a few Cistus ladanifer plants to the SAB webstore.

This species is a botanical source of labdanum.

[kadakuda]

knowing nothing abotu it, and being blown away by this thread, can i ask if a plant has a smell, is it possible to lock it up in an oil? for example cannabis has all sorts fo different scents, can tehy be harnessed? If i am walking through a forest adn smell a plant that is just unreal, could it be harnessed as well? or is this a whole other huge massive science?

[bullit]

I have made lotus wine with blue lotus petals and sweet wine, like the egyptians and had a very clear and slightly euphoric mellow experience, and years ago a friend gave me vodka with the oil in it, which was more intense

I have never tried to extract the flower petals with perfumers alcohol because you don't get the scent by this way, it is more bitter and much less flowery than the oil, as the teas were, I remember

In the Egyptians collection of the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna you can see many steles and paintings with blue lotus flowers on it

hey mp off topic but what was your ratio of blue lotus and wine???

[mindperformer]

knowing nothing abotu it, and being blown away by this thread, can i ask if a plant has a smell, is it possible to lock it up in an oil? for example cannabis has all sorts fo different scents, can tehy be harnessed? If i am walking through a forest adn smell a plant that is just unreal, could it be harnessed as well? or is this a whole other huge massive science?

yes, the scent of most plants can be captured and it is not too complicated. It also depends on what you want, essential oils and absolutes are the most concentrated forms but must be distilled or extracted, which is a bit more complicated.

I have a small cheap distiller, but it was possible get the scent out of blue lotus.

The easiest way to extract scents is to make a tincture with 80% alcohol. Grind the material and put it in the alcohol for a few days, then filtrate. In perfume mixes most tinctures are much weaker than essential oils, but it depends on the dominance of the plant-scent. If the scent, captured with the alcohol is too weak, let the alcohol evaporate at low temperature to get the absolute. The problem is, this method works for most but not all plant materials (80-90%).

Some flower scents (or aldehydes from cilantro) for example are too fragile to extract them in this way, they break down by enzymatic processes, so you need two steps (enfleurage): Put the fresh chopped material in liquid paraffin or liquid refined coconut oil and put it aside for a few days, always shake well, then strain through a sieve and squeeze. Now you can extract the scent with 80% alcohol from the liquid paraffin (two layers), which takes up to a week.

Cannabis scent (you always need the buds) is very complex, diverse and not easy to extract with alcohol because some of the components are not soluble in alcohol. The only way which worked was to microwave it 2 times for 30 seconds, then grind and put it in liquid refined coconut fat, stir well and microwave again. Liquify the fat again the next day and strain. Of course this description is only for legal low-THC-strains and only for the scent, not for consumption ;-)

Edited March 1, 2013 by mindperformer

[mindperformer]

hey mp off topic but what was your ratio of blue lotus and wine???

I didn' measure exactly, but I used as much wine, just to cover the lotus petals (not grinded)