Pest control inside greenhouse - Advice needed

[inti]

Hi all

I have discovered I have some pest roaming my greenhouse and i wanted to get the best advice in dealing with them without interfering with the health of the plants or my health.

Plants inside greenhouse are;

Lophs,

Grafted lophs of T.Pach. & Spach

Psycotria viridis plants

caapi seedlings

The pest I have discovered are ants wondering all over leaves and also lophs.

But also i have discovered tiny little creatures (smaller than fleas) i am guessing they must be mites.?

These little guys are seen wondering on lophs and also gatering around on caapi and viridis leaves.plus gathering in bunches on caapi new growth.

I am not sure If the ants are actually eating the mites....kind of like a little food chain thing going on here....

There are also heaps of webs and spiders. But those guys are welcome i like them around.

Plz also a few nibble marks on my loph.Suspect mouse or rat has gotten in and had a nibble. at dusk My cattle dog seems to be spooked around green house on a trail. So i think a rodent is getting in.

My questions is what is the best safest way to treat these pests.

Ants ( not sure really if they are problem ..they seem to be enjoying nectar on flowers of viridis.)

mites ( There seems to be leaf damage where they gathering )

Spiders webs etc..they are cool. They are already part of insect patrol/control. They are on my side in this battle.

Rodents ( i put some rat bait out for them).

Now I have "pest oil" petroleum based. Is that safe to be spraying on plants or cactus.??

I would like some advice whether or not i should be concerned about these mites or ants....

If so what is best way to control them without negatively toxifying my plants or anyone who consumes them.

I dont really want to kill the insects. But if the health of my plants is at stake. I must fight a preemptive war for peace and harmony of my special plants in my greenhouse.

thanks all

Edited January 15, 2013 by trichoshaman

[bullit]

ants harvest mites/aphid 4 there consumption!!!! they carry them around your plants building up cities then attack!!!! ants r fucking supa cool but supa bad i love them ??? ya gotta spray my mate

Edited January 15, 2013 by bullit

[CβL]

I always used to be like "nah, sulfur won't do anything for mites" - but have since found that sulfur seems to at least keep them at bay. I would definitely focus on destroying the mites - as far as I know all mites can cause significant damage, especially in a greenhouse where there's no rain to wash them off and the temperatures are to their liking.
Sulful is non-toxic to humans, so that's good. It's main effect on the soil will be to slowly acidify it, but generally this isn't a huge problem anyway.

In my experience, the ants don't really do anything, other than nest around the cacti (sometimes in the holes of the bottom). If your cacti are sick, then they might finish it off though - but then I would blame you for making it sick, not the ants for finishing it off.

I generally made the ants move off though, watering their nests and they soon packed up and left.

[Stillman]

sulphur and pyrethium in fortnightly treatments works a treat

[psyspasm]

yeah pyrethrum has been working a treat for me, also found a dead rat just outside my greenhouse the other day.. would this have anything to do with the pyrethrum?

[bullit]

if u c ants on ya plants theres a mite/aphid problem!!!

Edited January 15, 2013 by bullit

[obtuse]

Pyrethrum works good, it seems to kill mites outright given a couple of treatments over a few days. I've been using a concentrate in the past but it seems to affect the apical meristem of some plants, putting out distorted leaves for a few nodes.

I am currently trying neem oil to see if it makes a difference.

With Cacti it may not make any difference and pyrethrum may be fine. Also slugs and snails like cacti so the bites may be then just having a nibble.

good luck,

Ob.

[.dg]

if u c ants on ya plants theres a mite problem!!!

^^

not really. it could however point to root mealies or aphids though

i've never seen ants farm spider mites

Edited January 15, 2013 by dg420

[bullit]

^^

not really. it could however point to root mealies or aphids though

i've never seen ants farm spider mites

sorry i did mean aphids

[Darklight]

At the risk of sounding sanctimonious, the first line of defence against greenhouse pests is to clean the greenhouse and to make sure your plants aren't overcrowded

I know everyone's planthouses are different, and have different needs and care levels, but the above is one of the most basic steps for everyone. I used to run full containment planthouses, and managing the growth environment was the first step in making sure you didn't have to spray for bugs too often

Anything, anything at all on the planthouse floors will provide a safe harbour and a food source for bugs on their way to get at your plants. As does overcrowding. You also need air flowing between plants to make sure microclimates are kept constant and safe hiding places for bugs to a minimum

If you have the space- deterring ants is easy if you can keep the pots lifted above a wider saucer of water- the moat keeps them out as long as the plants aren't touching anything that could give the ants access elsewhere. Those little pot stands they sell in Bunnings are great, but you can prolly find something similar to do the job.

In environemnts where all that standing water can create a microclimate for other pests you can instead use double sided yellow tape ( Bugs R Us was one of the brands ) and tape around the legs of the things the plants stand on- as long as no leaves etc are touching the walls, not only does it deter ants but if you do get an infestation you can see where they're coming from

Not sure which sprays are best for cactii- you should def do a search on forums

[inti]

Hi All.

Thank you all so much for your time, advice and opinions.

I will go and get myself some pyrethium and sulphur and also give my greenhouse a good clean out and try those chemicals out.

Will see how it goes.

Thanks again for your advice.

Cheers

T.shaman

[bogfrog]

As dg420 mentioned, ants could also point to mealy bug.

I'm not sure if this is true but i read on a website once that ants actively farm mealy bug for the sugary substance they secrete. Apparently ants will even carry mealy bugs to their foodsource (ie: your cacti) and distribute them across a wider area.

Happy mealys = happy ants,

therefore ants in the greenhouse can = mealys in the greenhouse.

[Jox]

I agree with what everyone is saying about ants, BUT they are not always moving pest around causing dramas so don't stress out when you see them , if you watch them closely for a while you will soon work out there up to. They are ants in my greenhouse that come to feed on the sweet nectar that comes from the new growth on my dragon fruit.

Good luck working it out T.shaman

[IndianDreaming]

I tried a home rememdy that worked for a few small plants (viridis, caapi, stevia) - I'm not sure how big your area is:

1 x whole garlic bulb

10 x extra-hot chillis

500ml water

Boilled the whole lot for 15-20 mins, strained, added an extra 500 mls water and 10 drops dishwashing liquid

Popped that in a spray bottle and went to town on those little pests! Wiped em out completely. Then i hosed my plants down after about an hour to remove the surfactant (dishwashing liquid can clog the pores of your plants) I didn't repeat a week later so they came back, but then I did the whole process agan then 5 days later and I'm pest free still.

I use pyrethrum now though, the chilli and garlic is potent and pungent!

[Optimystic]

I was having troubles with a Mitragyna which attract quite alot of bugs... Something else brought in scale and I had bit of a problem earlier in the year which spread to other plants.. I read everywhere that the mitragyna plant is too sensitive to use most things on, even strong neem... I went ahead and experimented with Azadirachtin with good results, even on a freshly rooted seedling and it worked great... I even stepped up dosage recently just as a test and found no adverse effects.. Viridis is a similar plant I think, but not sure... it also has helped keep thrips under control... and also fungus gnats...

It is a neem product... labeled as an insecticide, miticide and nematicide... both foliar and systemic... anti feedant, insect growth regulator and Anti-Ovipository(eggs) as well as a repellent.... its safe for both spray and root drenching on alot of plants though personally I just stick with the sulfur powder light dusting on cacti...

It says OMRI listed, and also in the pamphlet, says it can be used up to the day of harvest, and on garden crops, herbs, spices, fruits & berries... it says that anyhow

check it out, I hope that helps

Edited January 16, 2013 by Spine Collector

[endorfinder]

Marigolds and catnip are supposed to be good to keep pests away naturally, it's the only reason I'm growing them.

[inti]

Hey thanks everyone for all you tips and advice. This is a great forum.

"Bogfrog" -- these ant/mealy bug alliance is really fascinating !

I will sure be trying out a few of the above remedies this weekend.

I will buy a few chemicals from bunnings.

Plus "indian dreaming" i will try out your garlic/ chilli mix. method too

I will keep posted on how I go.

Dam its hot today here in Sydney 45.1 in city earlier.

Ok happy gardening all

tricho

[Jox]

Good luck with it Tshaman,

I like ID's garlic mix, If you grow tobacco or can get hold of some this would go very well with his mix!

I have been using a home made mix for pest. I boil & soak tobacco leaves for a few days remove the leaves & add a few drops of teatree oil & a few drops of dish washing detergent, this has worked well on my cacti & natives.

[mindperformer]

In my small greenhouse, useful creatures like Amblyseius- predator mites against thrips and Phytoseiulus- predator mites against spider mites do their job very well.

Here in Austria, biohelp.at has many of them, but I don't know where to get them in Oz.

Your Australian lady beetle (Cryptolaemus) could also be useful and is also applied here in Europe against mealybugs.

A closed humid warm environment like a greenhouse is perfect for useful mites against pests.

Edited January 18, 2013 by mindperformer

[waterboy 2.0]

I wouldn't spray anything in the heat other that water as a mist to increase humidity. If your plants are able to be moved you could also try moving them out and away from the greenhouse and blasting them with water to get rid of as many pests off the plants before returning them back and then start some chem control.

Anything petroleum based is likely to burn the shit out of plants right now in a greenhouse, they work by smothering and suffocating pests so are persistent for a while. I wont use any of these products near cacti now at all.

Pyrethrum used after the sun is down is a good initial start, and Darklight has some great points on hygiene in the greenhouse.

Edited January 18, 2013 by waterboy

[Darklight]

I wouldn't spray anything in the heat other that water as a mist to increase humidity. If your plants are able to be moved you could also try moving them out and away from the greenhouse and blasting them with water to get rid of as many pests off the plants before returning them back and then start some chem control.

Anything petroleum based is likely to burn the shit out of plants right now in a greenhouse, they work by smothering and suffocating pests so are persistent for a while. I wont use any of these products near cacti now at all.

Pyrethrum used after the sun is down is a good initial start, and Darklight has some great points on hygiene in the greenhouse.

Spot on waterboy! I forgot to add that. Never spray anything on your plants in the middle of the day, especially in summer, as they can burn really easily. I would even be careful about misting most species when the sun is up high unless you have good shade coverage

And always go for physical removal of bugs before you apply your spray. Your spray will be that much more effective if you can get the bugs you can see off first. There will be plenty more bugs remaining stashed away, and there will be that much more active component available to target them

[.dg]

some great post in this thread- like Darklight points out you are in control of the environment

i'd add- its important to know your pest. are the smaller than flea critters thrips or spider mites or?

hard to battle an enemy if you dont know what it is!

a hand held loupe is helpful

be very careful using any oil product on cacti. especially in the sun!

pictures of any damage would be very helpful in diagnosis

Edited January 18, 2013 by dg420

[endorfinder]

@mindperformer I'm both lucky enough to have ladybugs hanging out naturally, and stupid enough to grow carnivorous plants in my greenhouse...

Actually a lot of useful critters appear from time to time... I'll look in things I can grow that might attract them

Edit:

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/how-to-make-a-ladybug-feeder-attract-them-to-your-garden-169681

http://www.backyardbuddies.net.au/Meet_Backyard_buddies.html

Mmm... Nice.

Edited January 19, 2013 by endorfinder

[kadakuda]

I know everyone's planthouses are different, and have different needs and care levels, but the above is one of the most basic steps for everyone. I used to run full containment planthouses, and managing the growth environment was the first step in making sure you didn't have to spray for bugs too often

very good advice. something i used to have problems with treating one thing then getting another.

pests i see in my greenhouse (all cactus)

Ants - for me mostly indirect, but have had ants drill through Lophophora species.

They have brought aphids, scale, mealy and probably mites. i see them farming aphids and mealy on things like Agave sp and larger columnar cactus in the ground.

nesting pots can bring soil pests but i have more problems with mold/bacteria from the nests stopping drainage and helping along rot.

snails/slugs are a big issue. dirt floors with weeds outside they come (african land snails for me) in from. i only got rid of them with a combination of slowing down wet season and about 40kg of salt layed out inside (20x50'). they have not been a huge problem since, but htey would eat antire large grapefruit sized plants in a night adn leave teh spines. even heavy spined plants like Corypantha elephantidens they can get through the spine mesh and eat out het plant. amazing. the only oines i find htey avoid are ones with fine/thin spines adn many spines, so they cant manouver around them. Mammillaria are fairly safe for example, but Lophs adn trichs are fair game.

spider mites are bad in dry. my greenhouse doesnt get them because i maintain a grassy patch in the middle of the greenhouse which raises humidity a LOT, never see them (i do see htem outside on leafy plants). plants at home i have seen them. teh answer to spider mites is LACEWING LARVA. i have used all kinds of sprays over the years. nothing even comes close to the same ball game as biological pest control, and lacewings are jsut 100% insane mite killer mothers. So much so that i dont even worry about spider mites anymore knowing i have a source for lacewing. Many country's AG extension should be able to sort you out for bio pest control species.

rodents are a problem only slightly. they eat fruit and do dig. for many, you jsut lose teh fruit. for slower growing smaller cactus liek ariocarpus, astro/lophs etc that tend to ahve 1-5 fruit in the center of the plant, the rodents actually dig through the wool looking for more, sometimes damaging the apical mersitem and then making the platn grow funky.

Earthworms along with underground rodents can actually move enough earth to collapse greenhouses. that might depend where you are, but being Aus you have giant earthworms as well, and much bigger than ours. i say this cause 2012 half of my greenhouse sunk adn the plants/benches on that side compeltely fell over and all over teh ground, lots fo death and damage. all because the worms dug out under neath the poles (remembering my greenhous eis dirt floor with plastic fabric on top) and made them fall over. their mounds were up to 1m high and 1.5m wide.

mealy/scale i see but never a huge problem. using sprays helps, even wussy overpriced organic sprays worked for me. scale was harder to get rid of chemically, but easy as pie mechanically...just time.

pathogens liek mold and bacteria are bad in any greenouse. in leafy plant houes like darklight mentions, cleanliness is paramount. if it were me doing things liek veggeis or something, i would pour a pad on teh floor, or at least put gravel on top of good plastic for weeds and to help with avoiding most pests. keeping those microclimates is important. my greenhouse is all cactus, and yet sometimes i see condensation on the sides of the plants (grafts/tall plants) where qas short little guys like lophs stay bone dry baking out in teh sun with no tall neighbours around.

I think on top of teh great advice already given, another very important thing that is probably more important to hobbyists who continually add few plants over teh course and thus aise teh chances of infection. so quarantine would be wise for any new stuff coming into your establsihed house. I use my home for this, and once plants are clean, put them in the GH. especially certain things like tomato, you need to be sure you are not only not bringing in pests, but diseases and viruses.

[dalegardener]

Great thread! Very informative thanks. I myself am planning on a greenhouse purchase for my cacti and this has helped a lot and raised some interesting questions for me to answer!