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trucha

Some Simple Tryptamines

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There is a saying in book production that the better the book the worse it will sell.

I probably should feel flattered that Some Simple Tryptamines sells so poorly since I know it's a good piece of work. Not said as bragging just stating something that is true -- even knowing it has errors. I'm frequently contacted by professional workers thanking me for its existence and telling me how valuable it has been for their own research. I feel good about that and wish it was more widely available - which is what this post is about.

Since it has sold slowly for the last several years (beginning immediately after some sort of smegma put the previous edition online as a pdf) I can't see how my putting it online is going to hurt book sales any worse.

I am thinking I should put the present edition including an insert detailing known errata, addendums and omissions online as PDF and would appreciate any thoughts as to that seeming like a good idea or a stupid shot-in-the-foot. Obviously there are plenty of stacks of boxes of books left for anyone who still likes reading books and supporting what is involved in book creation & production.

Feel free to contact me directly with thoughts (keepertrout[at]gmail.com) if you don't want to post them.

I want to make a decision on this within the next few days and will weigh any comments in that process.

Edited by trucha
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As someone who owns a copy of this book, it is a beautiful book, and I found it more interesting than SCI (though your political commentary in that was gold) or SC IIIb.

Due to the rather esoteric nature of the work, the relative lack of interest in DMT and other tryptamine containing plants compared to say the Trichocereus combined with the rather scientific focus I can see why it does not sell very well. It is an essential reference for anyone doing research with this plants or about their use at least as a starting point.

I'm in favor of you putting your previous works online if you are going to "abandon" the content in printed form due to lack of financial reward, but I think the market for SST might grow as the easy/obvious sources become more and more unavailable. For SST, I would wait if I were in your shoes, but I would love to see your older edition, out-of-print, scarce works online.

Whatever happened to putting SC II online? I assume you reconsidered as it looks like you have decided to go ahead and publish SCIIIa.

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Hey Keeper

I have an earlier edition of your book, and I enjoy it greatly. But these days I prefer digital copies where possible

But I rarely use paper these days unless there is no alternative. A well formatted pdf allows me to do a word search, critical for on-the-fly checking over multiple documents, especally when re-checking halfway through an experiment.

And I can cut and paste pdf info into any run-sheet I'm working off beside me

I may not be representative of your general clients though. What is your potential market like?

Would you DRM the publication? It may make commercial sense in your case, but I'm not a DRM fan. I tend to use and store the same document over multiple devices and DRM is a mark against a potential purchase IMO

cheers

DL

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In general I prefer books since my eyes like viewing paper better than an illuminated screen and I am not reliant on electricity to read them.

That said I do love PDFs and use them a lot for the very reasons you mention.

Most people buying this work (at least those I know anything about) have been professional researchers. Those have always appeared to be the larger portion of my customer base based on the feedback I receive.

Having a PDF online will certainly get it to more people including those who would never buy a highly technical document. I'm not planning on selling the PDF version or creating a cumbersome digital book. If I were to try selling either one they would rapidly be pirated and end up on scribd or googlebooks anyway so I'm thinking its better to do something I feel good about. If some generous soul out there actually likes me doing this sort of thing and wants to send me $5 or buy a copy of the book I would not argue with them of course.

I'd like to believe there may still be a person here and there who likes books in hard copy and that the existence of a PDF will only lose potential customers who don't like books if they have an option for PDF.

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On Sacred Cacti I have the first part ready to go to print (with whatever tweaks, edits and additions occur while I gather production resources).

Part three (Cactus Alkaloids) is close enough it too could go to print rapidly.

Part 2 (San Pedro) could as well in a majorly revised form.

All three being in color.

San Pedro was actually a full color book when it was created. I just lacked funds to print it in color as it would have jacked the production costs by 5X.

I CAN'T put San Pedro online without it totally fucking over the person who paid to have it go into print. He is still trying to make his money back and sitting on many stacks of boxes of San Pedro books in South Florida. Whether I make any money from it is a moot point but I'd like Robbie to at least make his investment back.

My sales of Some Simple Tryptamines almost completely stopped when Mr/Ms Smegma put the previous version of the book online in PDF form. I have been selling only a few copies per year in total ever since that occurred.

That is the usual outcome not just for me but for other ethnobotanical and psychedelic authors I know who have had their books pirated like that (including Sasha, Jon Hanna and Jim Ketchum). Every person I know has seen their sales either cease or nearly cease following appearance of a PDF version online. Like me, those three people I mentioned were experiencing fairly steady sales prior to the appearance of the PDF version.

Which in the case of us who had this happen before we had recovered our production costs really hurts. I've largely repaid my investors by working for an hourly wage rather than book sales so I feel good about that part of it.

I'm not the only one experiencing this. The Shulgins for instance have serious stacks of several books (TIHKAL, PIHKAL and the Isoquinoline book) that they can never sell. It will no doubt happen to the Shulgin Index as well. Its a strange way to treat people who most people I know greatly respect? Especially considering the Shulgins are both old and in serious need of money for basic health services that is going to increase not decrease for the remainder of their lives.

Its not going to change though, like any other dishonest person, sociopath or thief, book pirates are not somehow going to become honest people.

At several points I became so depressed about the financial aspects of this picture and feeling like I'd wasted a lot of my life, time and resources that I thought I should create a bonfire of my books, journal articles and unpublished written research in order to release it all to the purifying actions of the fire elementals but this notion I'm thinking about now leaves me in a much better headspace than any of those dark and malicous thoughts.

I've long-since abandoned hopes of seeing this work recover what I paid to produce it so this increasingly seems like a good idea.

Thanks for all of those thoughts in both directions!

Edited by trucha
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I'm quite surprised to hear sales were not very good. This is probably because I don't really understand the market.

To be honest I don't really buy many hardcopy books any more - only the ones that I consider 'special' of which SST is one.

I have interests in a few different areas and there are only a few people in these specific areas producing good new material, I want to support people putting the effort in so I buy and donate to them in return for their work. They way I see it, If they can no longer afford to continue producing this material it will dry up and my brain (and the communities of people which these materials appeal to) will be worse off.

If I had something to offer and was in your situation I would consider a downloadable pdf with updates (and any extra info) via a website for a donation. $10, $20, $30, $40 + postage = Hardcopy etc. & maybe a mailing list for future updates.

I work in a creative field that has forever relied heavily on printed material, lots of catalogues, brochures, cards etc. Last year for the first time we produced a digital catalogue in epub format with a 'print on demand' option. I think by the end of this year we will be producing only digital catalogues and probably 'Apps' for smart devices - from about 5+ hardcopy catalogues and 15+ brochures and cards down to only only one or two. I don't think this will dramatically change my kind of work - It seems to be the way things are going and it’s cheaper too.

Edited by watertrade

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I remember a few years ago spending a few hours photocopying a hard to find book I borrowed from a university library. The last page of the book had a single line of centered text that I would have probably missed had I not being paying attention to making a good photocopy.

 

Photocopying Kills Books

 

 

Edited by watertrade
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Sales were actually going well until a version appeared online. I was almost entirely focused on wholesaling at that point but we were all experiencing nice and consistent sales (its no best seller obviously). If the PDF had appeared around a year or two later it would not have caused the problems it did.

My favorite comment came from Jim Ketchum who told me he was at a Bay Area social event and met one of those smegmas who, without any embarassment, said something like "Jim Ketchum! Wow am I glad to meet you! I've sold thousands of copies of your book via download!" Jim said he felt like he should probably have punched the guy but did not want to be arrested so just left.

Its probably a good idea to sell PDFs -- I'm also guessing I will sell some but suspect that one of the buyers puts it online for free in short order. Its doable but surprisingly time consumptive to battle through getting copyrighted works posted online taken down. And if a person can't PROVE demonstrable financial loss directly resulting from the piracy they won't actually get as much as a penny out of any level of copyright infringements (unlike their lawyer who will get paid win or lose)

Its a good double entendre that photocopying kills books.

What many are doing now kills them even more thoroughly. A lot of the scans being posted of works are made by locating a reasonably priced used copy online or in a used bookstore and slicing off the spine so it can go through a sheet fed scanner.

Edited by trucha

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KT As someone who has purchased most of these books by the authors you mentioned, I tend to download them as pirated versions afterwards so I can do a wordsearch. Books are lovely, and I'm sure they will come back into fashion if electronic copies suddenly become unreliable ( Amazon---1984 style- as has already happened ). But right now books are not practical for me at all

I use metabolic pathways outlined and other bio-tips mentioned in a lot of publications unrelated to my field whenever Im stuck trying to get a formula right in tissue culture- not sure if that makes me a professional researcher or not ;)

I do feel that the publication of scientific research in our field gives us much more weight and social standing when it comes to wider discussions of drug use, and as such are integral to changing the notion that we're a bunch of crazed bark munching ferals. And I'm sad that your efforts haven't been supported KT. I do remember you speaking at the last outdoor EGA and your Loph presentation was both meticulous and loving

Have you thought about putting a donation box up to Paypal on the download page for those of us who would like to contribute to offsetting your time and effort? I'd love a recent copy of SST digital, and I'd feel good about paying for it

Paid updates are a great idea too.

All the best with this, I sincerely hope it works for you

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While a very weak sentiment indeed... once I do finally have enough spare money to begin adding to my library again, I was planning on buying some of your books. It is a real shame that people are not willing to pay for quality books that are not extortionately priced in anyway. I think you're a bit of a casualty of the commercial publishers and their war on consumer's brains and pockets - people have had enough of paying these corporations (media multinational middlemen in general) more than the GDPs of small nations, and most respect for publishers and what they do (benevolent or not) seems to have evaporated.

In terms of books, I definitely prefer paper books, as they're silent - unlike my ramjet of a computer, and the image quality and "smoothness" is just millions of times better than an ebook. I like to have both actually though, as it's much easier searching an ebook for keywords than using an index (which may have omissions of minor mentions).

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Our sales of your books were largely unaffected by the digital copies being available. I have digital copies of many books, but usually just to check them out before purchase. I own hardcopies of pretty much all books i like. There are lots of like minded people obviously because I know who we sell many of our books to [most of them are well capable of obtaining digital copies].

I like to read reference books cover to cover rather than just doing searches, so I prefer to have a physical book to read on a flight or in a hotel room or just sitting in the garden.

I do feel that making the digital copies available from the author will impact sales of your remaining stocks. We've sold out of SST, but as you said your friend hasn't. For many people the illegality of the download is an ethical issue, but this is removed by making it available from the author.

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Its a complex picture.

SAB is responsible for selling more far copies of this book for me than any single resource that is supportive of what I create. I've been quite thankful for that. Shipping costs are actually more of a problem than production costs but both add challenges.

I disagree about pdf impact mainly due to what I described being a shared experience (in fairly recent history) among ethnobotanical and drug authors. Its a curious shared coincidence to be able to impact so many different authors. The internet is a major force for aiding public education while also contributing to the figurative death of many book producers. I've been talking with a lot of them during the last few months.

I think though that most people who would be willing to pay for a PDF will and my present intention is uploading a webpage to offer that and more.

Either before this weekend or after I get back home early in the week (its unclear if I'm going to have internet access or not these next few days) I am uploading a page where people will have the option of buying a pdf or buying a book or just downloading the same pdf for free.

If people want to be supportive or encouraging to the process of my creating and putting material out they can.

If not at least the material gets into their hands -- which is where it is supposed to be.

A compounding part of the problem is that almost all of the book vendors who used to carry this material have gone out of business - mostly due to getting jobs that can earn them a living. I'm stepping up to the plate as a result.

I'll add a note and a link here when that page gets launched.

I've decided that I am going to stop doing revisions after this wave is out and if a revision seems needed for anything in the future to instead focus on creating additional works detailing the recent advances. This will more readily permit reprinting and noncentralized production. The ideal long term solution would be for works sold in Oz and Europe to be produced in Oz and Europe in order to to avoid having to be shipped.

Moksha has loads of San Pedros books but I'm the person (Accurate information media) with some weight of SST.

Thanks to everyone offering feedback and suggestions and thoughts above or in PMs or in emails. I'm feeling really positive about making this shift whatever outcome develops.

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I'm hoping this all went together fine but was incredibly rushed trying to get on the road (supposedly leaving some minutes ago).

If anyone encounters glitches or problems please let me know and I'll correct it when I get internet access again but I wanted to get this up sooner rather than later.

If anyone ever doubted my sanity let me set those doubts to rest and assure you that I'm not.

Off she goes!

at

http://www.accuratei...a.com/SST2.html

or at

http://www.largelyac...ationmedia.com/

Moderators please feel free to pin this if it seems of broad enough interest to the community.

Edited by trucha
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Beautiful, I just got mine, many thanks! $10 is a really good price

May I make a suggestion though? The SST download page is wordy and the layout isn't catchy. A layout change could really encourage more people to pay for the download instead of just grabbing it

I understand if you don't have the skill or experience or even the desire to do this, but so, so many products are marketed this way consumers have become subconsciously used to seeing this done.

There's nothing at all wrong or immoral about showing some real pride in this beautiful book as a product of your hard work and dedication :)

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maybe simply editing the topic title, would already increase the dowload numbers of your work, for a small fee.

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Thanks, I appreciate the suggestion, and will do something about it, but its a little hard for me to believe that people who won't pay for a download due to not having a snappy ad page are suddenly going to want to pay for me having a snappy ad page. Or I'd suggest that if that is enough of an justification for someone I'd suspect the vast majority of those same people would readily find another reason if that one did not exist. I'll alter it though and we will see what happens.

There does not SEEM to be any problem with the lousy page design causing very many people to not be able to find the PDF or to not want to do the download. My daily traffic at both websites more than tripled after I put the PDF up late Thursday night.

I am aware though the text and design were both rather hurriedly thrown together as I was trying to get that download page written and uploaded before I left town Friday AM. Apologies it looks like it.

So far one awesomely amazing person has paid money for a PDF -- which made my day since it was more than no one. (Thanks DL!) Maybe $10 is not a big total in some people's eyes but to me that was a huge vote of confidence since anyone can have the PDF for free (I was also stoked about the two people who approached me about ordering a book the day before I put the PDF online.)

This is all more a test of the waters than anything. I don't have any attachment to the outcome -- I'm at a cross-road point right now in life. I'm finally reemerging after a few years of lyme & coinfections hijacking my CNS and as my mind clears I am now wondering where best to put my future mental and physical activities. Due to the impact of those few years I do not have the resources to subsidize the availability of my work so need to approach whatever I do in that area in a manner that is sustainable.

Assorted people have suggested I should try a kickstarter project to finance book production of Sacred Cacti third edition. I suspect that when the dust has settled this tiny fractal of a test is going to nicely indicate what will occur with a kickstarter proposal.

Thanks for all of those thoughts. Advertizing and writing ad copy are certainly among my weakest points.

The process of creating Trout's Notes including writing, library work, photography, editing, design, layout, proofing, resourcing, publishing, advertizing, web design, webwork and primary book distribution has always largely been a one man adventure performed by someone "flying by the seat of their pants". My background was in chemistry, micro and the natural sciences rather than design, book production or advertizing but I will do what I can.

In another direction, an excerpt from the Lophophora williamsii entry in Sacred Cacti will be appearing in the next issue (#3) of Dragibus.

If people have not seen Dragibus yet they really should. The piece Kada wrote on Acacia confusa in issue 1 is the first new work out on that species in a heck of a while and is a really good article. Its just one of a number of articles that anyone with interest in these subjects are going to want to see.

http://www.dragibusmag.com/

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Thanks, I appreciate the suggestion, and will do something about it, but its a little hard for me to believe that people who won't pay for a download due to not having a snappy ad page are suddenly going to want to pay for me having a snappy ad page. Or I'd suggest that if that is enough of an justification for someone I'd suspect the vast majority of those same people would readily find another reason if that one did not exist. I'll alter it though and we will see what happens.

You are probably right :( I hope you're not right, as that would be depressing

Assorted people have suggested I should try a kickstarter project to finance book production of Sacred Cacti third edition. I suspect that when the dust has settled this tiny fractal of a test is going to nicely indicate what will occur with a kickstarter proposal.

That would be a cool idea. I'm not a huge cactus fan, but it's a good idea

People, if you don't support quality scientific work by your colleagues the work will simply stop happening as researchers end up spending their days flipping burgers. And society will be poorer for the loss of knowledge they provide. What did you do during the drug war? I mean, aside from consume?

Who else are you waiting on to do systematic analyses of plant growth and uses and metabolites? Syngenta? Commercial don't often publish data, and academia is very leery of funding anything which could be controversial. These people are the last free scientists, and I cherish the numbers who remain committed and out of captivity

KT, just keep going. If you can. People appreciate your work. You're coming back from a hard place, and it's my experience every time you do that you come back better and stronger

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In another direction, an excerpt from the Lophophora williamsii entry in Sacred Cacti will be appearing in the next issue (#3) of Dragibus.

If people have not seen Dragibus yet they really should. The piece Kada wrote on Acacia confusa in issue 1 is the first new work out on that species in a heck of a while and is a really good article. Its just one of a number of articles that anyone with interest in these subjects are going to want to see.

http://www.dragibusmag.com/

Ooh- another digital edition? I have it now, thanks for the link

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Hmm, sorry KT, I'd put the Paypal/ donations box up near the title. And leave the link to the free PDF where it is.

Be interesting if that changes the purchase dynamics. Downloading stuff is by and large an impulse purchase for me

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Thanks for all the good thoughts and suggestions.

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So, KT, a bit over a week later- have the layout changes resulted in any increase in purchases?

How's the site traffic looking overall?

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Site traffic is great. Slow increase in PDF purchases. Its up to six now. One person already had the book and wanted the pdf for his phone. One actual book sale too. Historically that seems pretty good for most sorts of 'shareware'.

I'm betting making it easier to read helped nicely.

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Signed copies of entheogen themed books should sell better, as they'd have more collectable value.

People wouldnt just buy them for coolness factor but perhaps also as an investment as books only go up in value over time if they are signed.

To be blunt collectors would know Sasha Shulgin, for example, probably wont live another 10 years and even if he did he probably wouldnt be able to clearly write his name near the end so if he started signing copies for sale now it might be a quite limited commodity- and your books are low in production number, if 100 signed copies hit the market people might decide it would be a good thing to buy and re-sell in 30 years

Is there a reason authors struggling to make sales dont autograph some to sell for $5 more on a legitimate site?

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I'm always happy to sign any books for anyone who asks that I do whether its to customers or wholesalers. I don't charge anything for it. I think most authors don't. I sure do want to agree with you that an autograph will entice sales but I don't seem to connect with people who will pay me five dollars. Its a good suggestion though - I like to have books that are signed by the authors - I'll add a note about autographs being available on request.

There is a 'real' commercial page at Accurate Info. Shopping cart, a secure page, credit card acceptance, autowhatnot. It costs me more to maintain just the credit card processing than I typically sell per month so its inactivated.

I personally believe what is occurring is that we are moving into an time where more people rely on electronic media and have little to no use or time for books - in some cases due to books being a flat form of communication when compared than something more robust, dynamic and possibly even interactive - and book lovers like us are increasingly becoming collectors of relics. I believe books will always be around and be useful or I would not create them. I'd like to find ways to do more though that WAS robust, dynamic and interactive. It might be a challenge to sell books but a more rewarding challenge seems to be finding more creative means of communication that has value.

Sasha was happy the last time I saw him some months back but he probably could not see well enough to write his name at that point.

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Cheers for signing my books at ega trucha!

Sad to see that they don't sell as much as they should be.

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