☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Posted June 3, 2014 what an awesome thread!!!! *learns hard* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zelly Posted June 4, 2014 I've had just about enough of this idiotic centipede dog & pony show, how about some more honest to goodness Lumberjack p0rn...... pics are from 3 separate lumberjack mother plants, two of which I received directly from neonaut. I don't think growing conditions contribute that much to the phenotypic looks. educate yourself mate. put a ~12" tall pc pach under a 40 watt incandescent light bulb in a windowless room and an identical one outside in the ground in full sun. be sure to post up pics Actually, you nailed it hard with your first three words.... 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philocacti Posted June 4, 2014 Beautiful LJ zelly In your opinion, since you got it from 2 sources, do you think all your LJ are the same clone? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyThKid Posted June 4, 2014 I've had just about enough of this idiotic centipede dog & pony show, how about some more honest to goodness Lumberjack p0rn...... pics are from 3 separate lumberjack mother plants, two of which I received directly from neonaut. LjackDSC_0185.jpg LjackDSC_0187.jpg LjackDSC_0188z.jpg LjackDSC_0190.jpg LjackDSC_0191.jpg LjackDSC_0192.jpg LjackDSC_0193.jpg LjackDSC_0195.jpg LjackDSC_0198.jpg LjackDSC_0200.jpg educate yourself mate. put a ~12" tall pc pach under a 40 watt incandescent light bulb in a windowless room and an identical one outside in the ground in full sun. be sure to post up pics Actually, you nailed it hard with your first three words.... Considering Incontinence lighting only provides red light up to like 3000k or so it would not grow anything at all but in fact further etiolate the cactus. Blue light is what is needed for vegetative growth, red light is more on the flowering side. Of course, correct me if im wrong here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zelly Posted June 4, 2014 In your opinion, since you got it from 2 sources, do you think all your LJ are the same clone? I know for a fact they are; but, as the saying somewhat goes, the proof is in the pudding. One day when the pudding nitrogen was over he was drooling on the feast of pr0n in front of his eyes & he spotted one of the two Ljacks from neonaut, which he immediately recognized as Lumberjack. He didnt know anything about the source of the plant, or anything else about it, other than immediately recognizing it as Ljack. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philocacti Posted June 4, 2014 Good to know that, cuz whoever said there are many types of LJ or whatever, confused me a bit 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Posted June 4, 2014 RAWRZZZ *just fell back in love with the LJ after having given up with all this un-necc confusion* thank You kindly for sharing those last few ridiculously sexy pics zelly , - ran outta likes for the day b4 i got to it sadly ... and thank you even more for putting the LJ record straight again , and doing it so well! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halcyon Daze Posted June 4, 2014 I'd be a bit suss on any Ljack hybrid seeds going around. Unless they are zelly's. Who knows what's out there being touted as Ljack. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) thanks for the heads up i managed to get validus X lumberjack already , so; excellent! Edited June 4, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyThKid Posted June 4, 2014 I'd be a bit suss on any Ljack hybrid seeds going around. Unless they are zelly's. Who knows what's out there being touted as Ljack. This is true of all cacti seeds, mostly Ariocarpus and Trichocereus where there are so many god damn hybrids and unofficial sub species that you never know what you are getting seed wise, LJ or not. with seeds it is always a risk, It takes years to find out if what you have is anything close to what you ordered. Stuff labeled as T. Peruvianus gets to me because we know its got other genetics mixed in. Even wild harvested seeds or cuttings have some hybridization in their genetics somewhere back in time. There needs to be a lot better control and documentation of cross breeding. Pictures of both parent plants should be mandatory IMO to help reduce confusion and mislabeling. This is the game we play collecting cacti. we gamble and win sometimes and we break the bank sometimes. I just really hate seeing PC pachanot on ebay and online being sold as LJ when it is clearly not. sell whatever you want but false names only hurts collectors down the road and makes it worse for everyone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nitrogen Posted June 4, 2014 This is true of all cacti seeds, mostly Ariocarpus and Trichocereus where there are so many god damn hybrids and unofficial sub species that you never know what you are getting seed wise, LJ or not. with seeds it is always a risk, It takes years to find out if what you have is anything close to what you ordered. Stuff labeled as T. Peruvianus gets to me because we know its got other genetics mixed in. Even wild harvested seeds or cuttings have some hybridization in their genetics somewhere back in time. There needs to be a lot better control and documentation of cross breeding. Pictures of both parent plants should be mandatory IMO to help reduce confusion and mislabeling. This is the game we play collecting cacti. we gamble and win sometimes and we break the bank sometimes. I just really hate seeing PC pachanot on ebay and online being sold as LJ when it is clearly not. sell whatever you want but false names only hurts collectors down the road and makes it worse for everyone That's exactly right - at this point I'd not buy seeds from any random vendor.. The most obvious example of this is how seeds are sold as "peruvianus" or "bridgesii" or whatever - 9 times out of 10 all that means is that the mother was a peruvianus or bridgesii - who knows what the father was.. This is why we see all these "pachanoi" seedlings with crazy long spines - the mother was obviously growing near some cuzcoensis or whatever.. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2meke Posted June 5, 2014 such a beautiful clone. looks like the perfect 50/50 peruvianus, bridgey cross. zelly - as always thanks for supplying the porn. couldn't ask for better. stunning plants, brilliant photography and i especially like how your trich forest is in clear view of a road. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blizznshot Posted June 5, 2014 Well, there are some reliable breeders out there. People who collect pollen in a sack and do bag-isolated fertilizations. Then grow out 100 or so seedlings to characterize genetic traits, etc etc. I gave one of said breeders his first LJ in 2007, and I believe he created one of the first "known" LJ hybrids; an LJxPach IINM. He got that bastard to flower in a year or two. He's made a few others since. Not sure if he's here these days; I know he's taken a break from our other haunt. Nitrogen's another, and it seems Zelly is too. Anyway...this thread has brought me back. I forgot what an amazing resource SAB is. Where's Neo anyway? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) lol what sluts these cacti are - who knows what the father was.. LOL and yeah im getting pissed off the last few days at wondering about my uk sourced "pachanoi" having longer spines t han the ones I sourced from France and Germany what with uk sellers touting "all pachanoi are a peruvianus anyway" , an all... this LJ is seriously sexy tho Edited June 6, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyThKid Posted June 6, 2014 Can anyone point me in the direction of information on the LJ origins or really anywhere good to start on hybrids or clones of trichocereus who have "official" names and such. I have found little and less information in my searches of the web and here. The form is just so full of topics and posts i cant find any of the results i need. I have an SS02 cutting which i was told is a bridgesii x Pachanoi. so thats a good place to start too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nitrogen Posted June 6, 2014 The history of the Lumberjackus clone is in this thread - dude basically just found it at a hardware store type place and propagated it.. As discussed earlier also there is speculation that it may be the same clone that I believe Mesa Gardens offers by a different name (much like how some people think the aussie "Super Pedro" clone is the same as what we have as a T. "cordobensis" I believe it is in the USA) SS02 is a pure bridgesii or bridgesoid type plant - while it may have pachanoi in its genetic history somewhere that is just speculation and it's the first time I've heard it either (much like how people speculate that the predominant cultivar pachanoi in the USA, the "backeberg" clone is partly a bridgesii) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyThKid Posted June 6, 2014 The history of the Lumberjackus clone is in this thread - dude basically just found it at a hardware store type place and propagated it.. As discussed earlier also there is speculation that it may be the same clone that I believe Mesa Gardens offers by a different name (much like how some people think the aussie "Super Pedro" clone is the same as what we have as a T. "cordobensis" I believe it is in the USA) SS02 is a pure bridgesii or bridgesoid type plant - while it may have pachanoi in its genetic history somewhere that is just speculation and it's the first time I've heard it either (much like how people speculate that the predominant cultivar pachanoi in the USA, the "backeberg" clone is partly a bridgesii) I will have to go back and read, i must have missed it somewhere. I have actually seen cacti called T cordobensis at my lowes last year and saw 1 this year as well. So what exactly is it? And oh lord the PC pachanot. Took me a year to find a pedro that was not a PC pedro. i have read about the bridgesii possibility. I and a couple others believe it has peruvianus in it as well if not as the main hybrid back in the day. I know spine numbers and such dont always mean much but the length, number and style reminds me of a short spined peruvian torch. like this one but not with the shield style areole of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philocacti Posted June 6, 2014 and yeah im getting pissed off the last few days at wondering about my uk sourced "pachanoi" having longer spines t han the ones I sourced from France and Germany what with uk sellers touting "all pachanoi are a peruvianus anyway" I'm no expert whatsoever, not even close to one.....I'm just a reader, but to me when we say peruvianus or pachanoi is like in ancient cultures they used to call them male (for longer spined specimens) and female (for shorter spined specimens). From readin M S Smith, Archeae and Trout's discussions, I'm not really convinced that peruvianus and pachanoi are different species. But as I said I'm still learning and I might be wrong ;) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyThKid Posted June 6, 2014 I'm no expert whatsoever, not even close to one.....I'm just a reader, but to me when we say peruvianus or pachanoi is like in ancient cultures they used to call them male (for longer spined specimens) and female (for shorter spined specimens). From readin M S Smith, Archeae and Trout's discussions, I'm not really convinced that peruvianus and pachanoi are different species. But as I said I'm still learning and I might be wrong ;) I believe there are some pachanoi out there with more peruvianus in them and some peruvianus out there with more pachanoi in them. And an infinite combination inbetween. The evolution of the trichocereus genus is not fully known but they are all of course closely related and each has a bit of the other in them even if its only a bastard hybrid way way back or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philocacti Posted June 6, 2014 Genetic studies on on the Trichocereus genus might clear things a bit ;) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philocacti Posted June 6, 2014 Since the pics are to big I know I posted this like last week but it growing very fast and blue......the pics don't do it justice at all http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h101/Reptilecacti/imagejpg3.jpg http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h101/Reptilecacti/imagejpg2.jpg 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nitrogen Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) Personally I think the PC/backeberg pachanoi is very much a pachanoi and not a bridgesii. It is slimy inside like most pachanoi rather than not-so slimy like most bridgesii, it grows fat like pachanoi, and it looks like a pachanoi - and when I commune with its spirit during meditation, that spirit seems more pachanoi to me than bridgesii.. Lumberjackus is an interesting clone - I reckon it's pretty much a bridgesii, but as others have noted there's a peruvianus cast to its appearance as well.. It's the most hybrid looking bridgesii of the well-known/well-established bridgesii clones I would say.. Psycho0 is another bridgesii that seems to me to have something else in its lineage.. Whereas KGC, Eileen, N1, and Bruce seem to me to be basically pretty much pure bridgesii.. Edited June 6, 2014 by nitrogen 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M S Smith Posted June 6, 2014 I know I was the first to make any sort of comment regarding the PC in this vein, but just to note, I've long said that I believed the PC is "closer in relationship" to T. bridgiesii than to T. pachanoi, not that it was a T. bridgesii. K. Trout offered me some validation of my ideas in his "Pachanot" write up. The similarity of the PC to the central Bolivian T. riomizquensis is also something that brought my thoughts in that direction. As for the Lumberjack, well I lean towards it being some sort of T. bridgesii x T. peruvianus, but regardless, it is a spectacular looking plant. I know others have said something about my own Lumberjack and its origins, but for the life of me I can't remember who sent it to me. ~Michael~ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philocacti Posted June 6, 2014 Personally I think the PC/backeberg pachanoi is very much a pachanoi From what I understand from Smith and Trouts writing that PC pachanoi is not Backberg pachanoi. People thought it was until Mike wrote up about it showing that Backberg pachanoi is a regular "true" pachanoi while the PC clone is different Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
solaritea Posted June 7, 2014 My lumberjacks came straight from JRL, so I'm confident in their ID. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
