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whitewind

Australian Ethnobotanical Association

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There has been a bit of a response to an idea I voiced over in this thread so here is the discussion thread for that idea.

I did a quick bit of research, creating an association isn't all that difficult but there are a few annoying rules, and some things we might find a bit tricky to achieve. The general idea is that you create a company which then becomes a legal entity - the company can get sued or sue, but not the individual members. This in itself probably won't prevent anyone, legally, from being affected by the new federal laws, but it does provide a legal entity with some authority which individuals won't have - which might be useful for lobbying purposes.

Here is the website

A quick glance, and I think I would have problems with having an office which was open to the public, there are some fees which might need to be met and I am skint (as are many people), and we need a constitution! Which will be time consuming, but fun. It has to run along the lines of plants must be freely available to all, and the association is committed to engaging with people and plants for conservation and information gathering (science). We will probably need a website too, and three founding members on the committee - so far we have two confirmed, and a few who have shown serious interest, I will get back to everyone later when I have a few moments.

Any ideas, chuck them in here please, I would also like to hear from anyone who has done this before or who is a member of an existing plant society.

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This is a more realistic and tangible ideal to Reptyles or even Gregs. I quite like this format.

As far as office space goes maybe hold meetings in a community centre. Theres your space a PO BOX for important mail etc.

All Plants should be freely available to all is a great stance. With a more watered down approach like this you may see some support from niche plant clubs and nurseries feeling the pressure from presumed law changes.

Edited by Stillman
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At least as an association we may be able to connect other groups to fight the Roxon madness.

After all the bastards are cherry picking with this as usual, how are the legal minds out there?

301.13(2)(i) taking the substance or plant may create a risk of death or serious harm

Now lets compare how many deaths caused between Mesc, DTM and glucose & alcohol just for fun.

301.13(2)(iii) there is limited or no known lawful use of the substance or plant in Australia, and the substance or plant has been found by a public official in the course of the performance of the official’s duties;

Lets just completely ignore ALL the legitimate uses entirely shall we & there as most of us are well aware there are many, only listening to a couple of officials who haven't lived outside a government office in decades shall we. So much for a F'ing democracy :puke: I read this is a plant can be listed no mater how useful it is but if industry can make a million out of it then the minister shall not list a plant, so much for being a representative of the ppl, more like a corporate representative.

(301.13(2)(iv) the substance or plant may pose a substantial risk to the health or safety of the public.

OK lets compare the harm caused, cost to public health & society between Mesc, DTM and glucose & alcohol shall we. If we need to ban potentially harmful substances fair enough, but don't be hypocritical about it, do it on actual evidence not just dogma & school yard rumour.

Perhaps Saccharum spp need to be listed as controlled plants for all the harm & misery their metabolites cause human kind.

Plus probably lots more dubious determinations but right at this moment i need a addictive & potentially lethal drug = caffeine

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Alright me and and a colleague / friend have been chucking ideas about, and we are going to try and hook up tomorrow to write a constitution for this association, we'll probably post it up here for people to chuck in their two-pennorth. It's a bit messy so far, ethnobotany is actually a hugely broad subject and covers any interaction of humans with plants, including ornamental horticulture, (which we kind want to ignore as it makes it too broad and kind of useless). Sustainability, environmentalism, and food are all other areas which are important and would have to be included in the philosophy.

Education and plant advocacy are our main imperative, including the philosophy All plants should be freely available to all and we aim to invite submissions to government from members who wish to join the Association, but it should also be a forum for education and discussion, where people can make a talk or show a movie, or ask for advice. There probably will be publications in due course too, we need to have a long-term strategy or plan. However, clearly the most important objective for the near future would be to try and lobby government for changes to the current law, and information dissemination to all who will be affected, including nurseries and plant enthusiasts.

I've had some great offers so far, including a really generous one of office space in a private home, and I will get back to everyone as soon as I have a spare moment, but thanks all for your ideas and keep them coming as I don't have the time to figure everything out myself at the moment!

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You should be able to download the "model constitution" for clubs & associations from the AG's web site to meet the legal requirements & just add bits around the edges as you see fit.

As soon as i get some internet speed again i'll find the link for you

Edited by shortly
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I forgot to mention that we need a small group of founding members who will form the starting committee. These people will need to be able to meet up reasonably regularly (every few months or so) and of necessity this will be based in Sydney, as this is where we intend to start. If there is anyone interested in being a founding member, PM me - we have 2 and we need a minimum of 5 otherwise we won't be able to consider starting up the group!

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Thanks Shortly if you find that link it would be great. Anything to reduce the workload!

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i will join the starting committee... when the first meeting?

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Very welcome Reptyle! Not really sure, as soon as we have enough members, have a constitution ready to be looked over and agreed, etc. As soon as possible, maybe the weekend if we have our shit together. But don't you live up north somewhere? How much notice do you want?

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All plants should be freely available to all aye.... seems like that's the kind of loophole that will finally let me get my own nuclear power plant! Muhahaha

Sorry to open with such a bad joke. But my point is still kind of in there, and it is: "be very careful with the wording." Don't just examine what the words roughly say, but what they allow at the extreme. Your association implicitly says that everyone should be able to grow Cannabis with such wording. Is this a horse you want to bring along?

While I think that it's obviously a very important issue, and one still dear to my own heart - I get the suspicion that bringing it along for the ride (with that particular wording) might slow the reactionary value of the group, and lessen its reception at such a critical time (the passing of this legislation).

For example, this might reduce the support of plant clubs (knowing the average age of my old plant club [above 55] - I think that the support of the club would not be there, while the support of half of the members might. Many though would be afraid to support anything more than an anonymous petition).

In other words, some people might be more comfortable joining a group which only opposes proposed laws, rather than standing in defiance of old, well-established laws. This is related to the so-called chilling effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect_%28law%29

Anyway, if there's anything I can do - then I will try and help too. :)

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and how does a persons "right" to grow and interact with any and all plants relate to quarantine?

i think though the philosophical ideal is different to the practical method? and the exploration of the ideal leads to correct execution of the method?

and so it would be fine as a statement of intention... though a peaceful transition from unaware to awareness and prohibition to liberation is important to understand.

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geez there are some smart cookies on this forum! such an awesome idea.

May not be helpful, but these are a few things that fell from my brain.

Freedom to grow

Don't criminalize growth

Educated choice

Plants are not criminals and neither are the people that grow them. These laws will make criminals though, more laws = more criminals. Maybe the quota is not being met.

Ha! these sound like banners after re-reading :)

I completely agree that education should be a key element in your association. Maybe stats regarding health issues of ethnos vs legal chemicals could make an appearance on your site. Basically attacking the legislation shortly posted, but with fact. But then again, i would imagine a positive light would be better shone from the association.

ramble over.

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There has been a bit of a response to an idea I voiced over in this thread so here is the discussion thread for that idea.

I did a quick bit of research, creating an association isn't all that difficult but there are a few annoying rules, and some things we might find a bit tricky to achieve. The general idea is that you create a company which then becomes a legal entity - the company can get sued or sue, but not the individual members. This in itself probably won't prevent anyone, legally, from being affected by the new federal laws, but it does provide a legal entity with some authority which individuals won't have - which might be useful for lobbying purposes.

Here is the website

A quick glance, and I think I would have problems with having an office which was open to the public, there are some fees which might need to be met and I am skint (as are many people), and we need a constitution! Which will be time consuming, but fun. It has to run along the lines of plants must be freely available to all, and the association is committed to engaging with people and plants for conservation and information gathering (science). We will probably need a website too, and three founding members on the committee - so far we have two confirmed, and a few who have shown serious interest, I will get back to everyone later when I have a few moments.

Any ideas, chuck them in here please, I would also like to hear from anyone who has done this before or who is a member of an existing plant society.

Do you need the association to be a registered company? I would have thought you would be better looking at a registered association as the reporting and I presume the cost would be less. Here is the page for info on incorporating a association in NSW http://www.fairtradi...ssociation.html and this the page with the model constitution for an incorporated association http://www.fairtradi...nstitution.html .

It has been some time since I was involved in setting up and running a association but I will try and help in any way that I can. An incorporated association offers some protection to its office bearers and members but this only as far as the following

Members of the management committee of an association also have limited liability for the debts of an association, as long as they follow accepted business and community standards

Being incorporated give you some protection but it only runs so deep. For an example I was involved in mountain bike clubs and associations and we obliviously had to have public liability insurance but if I made a reckless decision at a race that caused a accident then I could still be held liable even though I was working for the association. In this case being incorporated wasn't going to protect me and I could be sued along with the association. This will also be true with illegal activities.

One other thing that is worth thinking about is making sure the constitution has the objectives of the association written in a way that it is watertight and it can not be hijacked by members that have a different objective. This may sound a bit over the top but it can happen and if the appropriate steps are taken on the establishment of the association then you wont have to worry about in the future.

This is a great idea and I am all for putting my name down as a member of an association to protect the plants that we all grow and collect but if this was go off on another tangent then I would have to rethink my position.

Cheers

Got

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I'm keen to help out with this, just let me know what I can do.

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Heres the NSW one WW i't doesn't look very different to the Qld one but i figured it might be more appropriate

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/pdfs/About_us/Publications/FT412_Model_Constitution.pdf

Now you need to get insurance, pay the grubbyment their registration fee & get an accredited auditor to go over the books every year, best to have a cheap one lined up early on. You REALLY dont want to be trying to find one come june.

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All plants should be freely available to all aye.... seems like that's the kind of loophole that will finally let me get my own nuclear power plant! Muhahaha

Sorry to open with such a bad joke. But my point is still kind of in there, and it is: "be very careful with the wording." Don't just examine what the words roughly say, but what they allow at the extreme. Your association implicitly says that everyone should be able to grow Cannabis with such wording. Is this a horse you want to bring along?

While I think that it's obviously a very important issue, and one still dear to my own heart - I get the suspicion that bringing it along for the ride (with that particular wording) might slow the reactionary value of the group, and lessen its reception at such a critical time (the passing of this legislation).

For example, this might reduce the support of plant clubs (knowing the average age of my old plant club [above 55] - I think that the support of the club would not be there, while the support of half of the members might. Many though would be afraid to support anything more than an anonymous petition).

In other words, some people might be more comfortable joining a group which only opposes proposed laws, rather than standing in defiance of old, well-established laws. This is related to the so-called chilling effect: http://en.wikipedia....ffect_%28law%29

Anyway, if there's anything I can do - then I will try and help too. :)

I agree and am worried due to peoples limited associative capabilities we might not receive the support we need, for the same reason do we need the word 'Ethnobotanical' in the associations title? I would like to think if such an association was formed it would represent the right of all types of plants and all types of gardeners.

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Australian Botanical Association perhaps? it has holds less connotations which may be an advantage?

Edited by Stillman
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How about something that "No further plants be banned, and the existing banned ones are investigated for their potential to aid mankind"

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Push for an Amnesty on existing collections if you are in a club, association, studying, teaching etc.

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i don't see a problem with the use of the word ethnobotany (or derivatives), as it demonstrates a cultural link to the plants. it is not just a term meaning 'drug plant', the average joe doesn't know the term to associate it with only drug plants and the more educated who will care for the wording of the name will likely understand the full connotations of the term, and not have the similar bias some of us seem to have in thinking of chemically diverse, psychoactive species first when hearing the term.

eth-no-bot-a-ny

noun: The scientific study of the traditional knowledge and customs of a people concerning plants and their medical, religious, and other uses

it would just be important to give equal importance to all plants that fall under this umbrella within association, and not focus on further perpetuation of the notoriety of 'vine' or various acacia species, which, must be a win anyway.

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This is all just vacuous words on a screen. In a week this thread will have slowed down, by Xmas it will be dead and by 2013 it will be forgotten. All talk and no action is the typical mantra of most so called concientious community members here.

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This is all just vacuous words on a screen. In a week this thread will have slowed down, by Xmas it will be dead and by 2013 it will be forgotten. All talk and no action is the typical mantra of most so called concientious community members here.

someone took there negative pill this morning!

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Ahh - reverse psychology thinly veiled as sarcasm.

I use that on my kids all the time.

You got any better ideas Psylo ?

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gettin my stretch on now got my sweat head band on cardio timer and stopwatch and my matching adidas paddles and little athletic threads happening so look out psylo im ready for action so I can be a silver spoon winner!

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