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Torsten

The federal model schedules are coming

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The federal model schedules are coming in via a back door. we have been waiting for the criminal code act amendments to hit parliament so that we can fight the stupid plant laws that were proposed. Roxon has avoided this by removing the schedules from the act and putting them in the regulations. Regulations do not need to go through parliament. This means they can be done much quicker and do not get scrutinised by the parliament.

The amendment for this to happen has already passed. Not sure when it comes into force and at this stage we also do not know what the version of the schedules will be.

Sorry for the lack of detail. hopefully someone else can fill in more. I am too busy dealing with the stupid Qld laws and a NSW forensics fuck up for the next week.

If you want to know what the proposed model schedules are and how they affect plants please have a look at www gardenfreedom.com I don't think they know about the changes yet as there is no update.

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On the upside depending on exactly what go's into the regulations we could turn this to our advantage :devil:

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Please explain Shortly. This does not sound like good news to me

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I do so hope they make it into a movie, I haven't finished reading the last one...

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Was looking forward to a quiet weekend. Now looks like I'll be really fucking busy. Why do we have to waste so much time trying to fix these stupid fascist laws?

Ideas for protest banners:

I could be doing conservation

Leave Medicines Alone

Don't Make National Parks Illegal

Governments out of Gardens

Why Make Nature Illegal?

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hopefully this won't affect your business too much torsten,

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hopefully this won't affect your business too much torsten,

I don't think that's the issue, as T is aware of the proposed changes and has time to adapt.

What about all the small nurseries, Landcare nurseries, people with ordinary ornamental plants in their gardens... I know from experience it's hard to convince a lot of people that these ridiculous changes are pending. And even when they do take it on board there is still the belief that they couldn't possibly be targeted. Until of course they are

This totally fucks research. Get a permit, huh. I've seen how much time these things take to apply for and admin necessary to run them ( and to make the sort of changes in direction that usually happen during the course of any research project ). They're prohibitively extensive. And you need to make sure all staff are aware of them, tracking changes as the project progresses iinto new processes as they almost always do. Things like- arranging or building extra secure space for the most trivial and brief of procedures. Rearranging entire security access to allow for a new process to take place in a previously open-access area ( and finding new work areas for those affected-get your work out of here, take the gear with you, find bench space, and wipe card access for the new space for all staff but those listed ). And making sure all staff know and respect the guidelines (I don't believe you, so I'm going to do it my way anyhow. I had to read a lot of legislation and I can't get it right. We have to pay the lawyers to check this out before we can evaluate the project. Hey I store my samples in that fridge, I need them now, where's the dude with the key? I wasn't listening at the meeting etc ). This is the very opposite of incentive to undertake research

And given the species which will be quickly listed which could also have potential clinical applications, the whole thing horrifies me

Back when kratom was legal ( I know.. I've said this before but it's still the best example I can think of ) I've seen firsthand how a simple mild infusion reduced the swelling and pain of crippling rheumatoid arthritis. We'll never have that option as an available treatment. This is what we lost last time. Now we face losing more

If the schedules they're proposing this time are anything like the last lot, congratulations Roxon, you're fucked. Stupidest. Law. Ever

Edited by Darklight
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I think this is what you are referring to?

http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22legislation%2Fems%2Fr4907_ems_5df112d2-7a67-40e6-a27b-5aca5669a629%22

CRIMES LEGISLATION AMENDMENT

(SERIOUS DRUGS, IDENTITY CRIME AND OTHER MEASURES) BILL 2012

.....

Serious drugs

Overview

Schedule 1 to the Bill makes a number of amendments to Part 9.1 of the Criminal Code Act 1995 (Cth) to strengthen the Commonwealth’s serious drug offences framework.

The amendments will ensure the Commonwealth’s serious drug offences framework remains up to date and effective in combating the illicit drug trade. Amendments to Part 9.1 include; the transfer of the lists of substances from the Criminal Code to the Criminal Code Regulations 2002 (Cth), the proposal of conditions and criteria for listing controlled and border controlled substances in regulations, and improving the emergency determination mechanism by expanding the listing period and refining the criteria that must be satisfied before a determination can be made. These improvements to the Commonwealth serious drug offences framework will assist the Commonwealth to better respond to the emergence of new and emerging substances.

Division 301 of the Criminal Code contains the mechanisms for listing additional drugs, plants and precursors temporarily through interim regulations (for a period of up to 12 months) and/or urgently through emergency determinations (for a period of up to 56 days) for the purposes of the serious drug offences in Part 9.1. The amendments will repeal the interim regulations mechanism and emergency determination mechanism and provide for a single emergency determination mechanism which will initially cover a 12 month period with the possibility for extension to 18 months. This will provide the Minister with the capacity to respond rapidly to emerging unknown substances. The conditions for listing via this new mechanism are based largely on the current conditions in the Criminal Code for listing substances by interim regulation and the emergency mechanism.

It is also proposed that a substance or plant can be included in the regulations in the first instance, without having to list substances initially through an emergency determination. This would be appropriate in circumstances where enough is known about a substance to warrant its indefinite listing from the outset. The amendments clearly outline what the Minister will have regard to before a regulation to list a new substance may be made.

These criteria are largely based on the detrimental effect the substance has on the individual and the risk to the community, reflecting what is currently found in the Criminal Code and what is in place in other jurisdictions for the listing of illicit substances.

Human rights implications

Schedule 1 does not engage any of the applicable rights or freedoms.

Conclusion

The serious drugs measures in Schedule 1 to the Bill are compatible with the human rights and freedoms recognised or declared in the international instruments listed in the definition of human rights in section 3 of the Human Rights (Parliamentary Scrutiny) Act 2011 .

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"Nothing makes governments look more foolish than making laws that cannot be enforced"

Darklight is correct = it is going to cost more to enforce than the predatory government can ever expect in return. Forensics can expect a backlog of years, with the real crims "at large" in the meantime.

Why don't we just go back to convict days, and let the government return to the corrupt Rum (and 'baccy) Corps they were? Now that would be real devolution.

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Where is the logic in the scheduling anyhow? If there is to be a cost/benefit from the legislation surely there must be dollar figures to represent the emergent scourge of people presenting a public danger mugging grannys to fund their DMT habit to justify all the ( doubtless expensive ) government work that's been going into this ridiculous legislation

Ok that last sentence was an exaggeration. But is this legislation based on an emergent trend of a defined existing harm, and if so, where are the figures- especially those which would compare the perceived threat proposed by scheduled plants compared to the currently accepted threat by currently illicit drug and alcohol use.

They're happy enough to tout these figures in any yellow press article about the so called costs of illicit drug or alcohol use- where are the comparative figures for drugs that aren't illicit yet. How much is this costing the community? And how much more would enforcement increase that figure?

If it's scheduling to protect us from a perceived threat, it's ridiculous. I'd like to see both the schedule *and* the justifications. Think of the cheeeeldren doesn't cover it

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And the million dollar question- what can we do about this? Complaining here is preaching to the converted

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I am quite open about how this will affect SAB, and like darklight said, we've been preparing for this for a while now. Actually, we've been expecting this for years - even before they announced the model schedules. This year's seed bed is full of exotic edibles and obscure medicinals which will make life a lot more interesting.

I think aspects of the legislation are unstoppable, but others are certainly within reach. The whole cactus thing will be messy because it will affect such a huge array of law abiding citizens [and there are strong conservative allies], so I presume it will need to be watered down somehow. I'd expect the common onces to be specifically scheduled, so don't rely on peyote and san pedro to be around next year. The DMT thing will also be shown to be unworkable, but not sure how they'll work that oen out becuase as we all know, DMT is everywhere! The brugmansia scheduling is just ridiculous and will probably be the first to go if it is included. I don't however hold out much hope for khat or ephedra.

The sab nusery only earns enough to keep the nursery staff employed, so if we have less plants we can sell we'll also have less work. The herb and seed side of things will be largely unaffected. I think these laws are sad and definitely a step in the wrong direction, but from a business perspective I am not concerned. There are far more exciting plants than the ones they are targeting.

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it is unlikely also that all policemen will be trained in the identification of plants and general taxonomy, i think it is a stretch to think that they would ever clue on to your khat plant the same as they would your marijuana plant, unless a neighbour saw you chewing something and called up to dob you in. i regularly see papaver somniferum growing in peoples yards, not worried about, but i imagine if there were a bunch of straw hanging somewhere with nicks all through the pods / stems then maybe you would be suspect.

my point is, these laws will likely come dowm to application, and if you are shown to be doing the wrong thing they will have the means to prosecute you, but otherwise you will just be let be, as gardening is not the aspect i think they are targetting. perhaps as a community we shpould start logging our own grows better, making note of when we take a cutting and why, with either the cutting its self as evidence or a written thing from the person you gave it to, so that in a court situation it would be well easy to prove our plants / cacti were only grown for ornamental purposes, as i assume most people's here are.

i am aware it is somewhat irresponsible of me to suggest people will get away with it, and i do recommend following the law, but it does infuriate meto think i may be labelled a criminal, a drug addict, a drug cook and / or a spiritual nut case for having a garden i consider nice and ethnoathropologically important. all im saying is, i know i won't be getting rid of my collection, not for anyone.

dio

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I am quite open about how this will affect SAB, and like darklight said, we've been preparing for this for a while now.

Any ideas on how the forum will be affected..?

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HHmmmm YAY lets ban even more things, and create an even bigger blackmarket, and push everyone to create even more fucked up undectable substances.

Harm minimization and education, if implemented properly(along with heavy goverment taxes, which we would happily pay if our fav poison of choice was half the price even after being taxed), could have made the goverment VERY rich. Instead they make us pay more taxes to fight an issue that is only an issue because they say it is!

<<<<----- Ovbiously sides with the "Fuck" Group.

WHo the fuck is anyone to tell me what i can or cant grow, smoke, eat, rectally administer, huff, snort, topically apply! :devil:

If this gets passed, I am going out of my way to gorrilla garden the streets of SE QLD with Khat, Brug, Datura, Caapi, Sally and anything else i can find scheduled. Imagine if we all had big group planting days, where nothing but brugs,khat,kratom and sally were left lining the street or park in question.

If they kick...Ill kick back....

Sick of sitting back and having my life ruled by the man!

Anyone up for rougue plantings of scheduled plants in SE QLD please privately contact me for further details.

Spread the plants people!

EDIT: FUck it ...if they schedule anymore plants, im taking pods of D.stammonium, and scattering them VERY wide in major parks and viewable land lots!

Edited by 2Deep2Handle
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Any ideas on how the forum will be affected..?

I don't think it will affect them at all unless you ar talking about cultivating or selling more than 10 such offending plants. from my understanding anythign under 10 [combined] is not affected. However, these MODEL schedules are supposed to be copied into state drug law, at which point ALL cases of possession will be affected.

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Great idea from Faustus, let's catalogue all the plants these laws will effect that are growing in the gardens of our elected officials, public servants, police etc. They won't be so keen on these laws when they get directly effected by them.

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FUck it ...if they schedule anymore plants, im taking pods of D.stammonium, and scattering them VERY wide in major parks and viewable land lots!

For the sake of native conservation efforts, please don't do that.

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Note to Roxon and your evil conspirators : - I voted for you mongrels , but , NEVER AGAIN !!!

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Maybe this is what the Mayan calandar was all about.

2012 the end of reason.

I live in an area that can be described as nothing else but a drug den, the majority of the adults in this area are drug addicted dead shits and their entire life is dedicated the pursuit of synthetic chemicals. Overdoses, alcohol abuse, stabbings, house invasions, robberies, and bashings are everyday events around here - par for the course.

Police raids are a rarity and from what I see I can only conclude that the supply is these substances is controlled by the police and allowed to flourish as a source of easy money for them.

I've separated myself from that drug culture and done my best stay within the law as it stands because I don't want to be part of that culture/lifestyle and I don't want my kids to grow up with a deadshit drug addict for a father. As a result myself and my family are social outcasts to a large extent and people just don't trust us.

I have plants in my yard that could help these misguided souls, I'm not judgmental, we all chose our own path and they've decided to go down their own chosen path. I really have to hold myself back in regards to enlightening some of them and maybe help them kick their habits and become productive citizens through the use of some of these plants but if I told just one, word would get out in days and my yard would be stripped bare by junkies looking for fix. So for the most part I keep to myself.

My eanest belief is that substances of abuse (not the plants we collect) are in many ways a symptom of malnutrition, their bodies are starving and they can't join the dots and feed themselves adequate nutrition so they satisfy the cravings with drugs which takes food off the table and completes the cycle, leaving them in a constant state of need which is always suppressed with more drugs.

Now I'm going to be lumped into the same group as the rest of neighbourhood and as far as the law is concerned I may as well be be a junkie. I can't even get pissed off about it, I don't allow myself that luxury unless I know it will be impetus for some positive change as a result.

This is a sad day for Australia, common sense and basic human rights.

I can see a big surge in the use of illegal manufactured drugs such as amphetamines and heroin as a result of all this, the yin that will come from excess yang (control)

I hope your neighbourhoods don't end up like mine with nazi cops protecting their assets and trouncing everything else.

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