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The Corroboree
Torsten

The federal model schedules are coming

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Each consecutive minister. As we know, some ministers are okay, many others are complete nightmares. All we need is one conservative with a bee in their bonnet, and we're all fucked. Even the best meaning people can make mistakes, especially if they are poorly informed or being hassled by the wrong groups. This is a ridiculously sloppy piece of law which has the potential to cause massive amounts of harm.

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i could not agree more.

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i feel this law will rely on neighbour dobbing in neighbour. this will tear the community apart, just when it was making some progress! i saw yesterday one family in my area bought what must have been thousands of dollars worth of plants, 2 whole truckloads, to landscpae their yard after renovations... from what i could see on closer inspection, about half of them will need to be ripped out!

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Does nobody consider that the proposals will not turn out anywhere near as bad as everyone is speculating? I'm imagining much of it will blow over over the course of time, with onnly a few species, if any, affected.

If someone can explain to me how this *IS* happening, please elaborate, I'm all ears.

EDIT: or is this the rock solid confirmation?

"The amendment for this to happen has already passed. Not sure when it comes into force and at this stage we also do not know what the version of the schedules will be."

Edited by Psylo
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Does nobody consider that the proposals will not turn out anywhere near as bad as everyone is speculating? I'm imagining much of it will blow over over the course of time, with onnly a few species, if any, affected.

If someone can explain to me how this *IS* happening, please elaborate, I'm all ears.

EDIT: or is this the rock solid confirmation?

"The amendment for this to happen has already passed. Not sure when it comes into force and at this stage we also do not know what the version of the schedules will be."

nope... I've lived in australia for alomst 40 years and i see one stupid decision after another with no thought at all for the bigger picture and the damage done.

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Even if its not enforced though the thought that such legislation has been passed is worrying.

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It never is Psylo, governments work on a death of a thousand cuts, each little thing isnt so bad is it? But add them all together & you can bet you got screwed over. Its just the nature of the beast.

Does nobody consider that the proposals will not turn out anywhere near as bad as everyone is speculating? I'm imagining much of it will blow over over the course of time, with onnly a few species, if any, affected.

If someone can explain to me how this *IS* happening, please elaborate, I'm all ears.

EDIT: or is this the rock solid confirmation?

"The amendment for this to happen has already passed. Not sure when it comes into force and at this stage we also do not know what the version of the schedules will be."

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There are lophophoras older then the attorney general and her decisions combined...that is prettybad if this does happen!

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governments work on a death of a thousand cuts, each little thing isnt so bad is it?

I applaud you on your choice of words. A very clever analogy.

We could say that this began years ago. Salvia divinorum, kratom, the utterly stupid kava legislation changes and more. I'm just not expecting an almighty hammer to fall on every 'potent' ethnobotanical plant source. The DMT carriers is what I expect to be scrutinised, until it's realised that such a widespread native cannot be tamed. Plan B will be.....the mescaline bearers ! Burn your Tricho's & flush your Lopho's. The most traded plant commodity on the most popular ethnobotany website in Oz, and they have been watching.

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geeme.. remember when we got, grew and enjoyed our plants as plants, we talked of growing techniques, fertalizers, sun levels, soil types etc. were proud to show photo's of their flowers, their growth. the world was, for a time, real. now these dumbshits have made such drama out of NOTHING that the focus of our geniune plant / botanical interests has become some stupid and utterly pointless debate about some shit a plant contains... who gives a flying F*^k what they might contain. i have seeked some native plants because i find them to be very attractive and asthleticly suited to my property. my god. im over it.

but,

i must remember that every plant is a drug, not a plant, what the hell was i thinking. time for bombs to drop on this land i recon. ACT. at least!

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Drove past an acacia herborium in Adelaide today- what would become of that I wonder? Such a collection of plants.... Bulldoze it into the ground? I don't think so,,,,

You might be right Psylo but there are many what if's in life. What if no one was concerned & didn't act on their beliefs, understandings? I think people here are showing passion for what they believe in & that has to be a positive thing no matter how someone else looks at it.... Now I guess that is open to all sorts of comments/answers. Just to reiterate we are talking about plants though & the new laws. not god or religion or money etc, but plants. Some one could prob right a theisis on that topic for the rest of their lives & still have no answer .

It's kinda good to be organised in life.... If all this passes or even if it doesn't & is forgotten about?

At least people are thinking about it!

It's all about education,understanding & learning.

Reading through the new act it doesn't actually specify numbers of plants, age of them , blah blah etc. for certain species. seems to mention cultivation, selling etc but there are no definitive ( in black & white) answers . So it's a work in progress?? My life is a work in progress...

In the questions/ concern sections under each section what does constitute a collection or a collector? Can't recall the page off the top of mind.

I couldn't work it out. But that's not surprising...

As this law has been passed (?)is there a more up to date version floating around ?

Btw , not that I know but is mescaline more popular than DMT?

I can't say either are a drug of choice for the nation!

Sorry post is a cross thread reply with this & the one in news & notices....

Edited by altenate

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Psylo, to understand the most likely outcome you need to know what the policy is. This has been discussed by the agencies and ministries for a few years and is quite open. The aim is to make drug law federal. But because the states currently have drug law sovereignty the only way this can be done is by recommending schedules. To make sure that no state becomes less restrictive under the federal model, any drug mentioned in any state schedule has been included. I can assure you that ALL of these will stay unless there is strong public opposition. The dmt and mescaline items come from the SA state drug law where these definition already exist. So don't think that stupidity in legislation is any hindrance to it becoming law.

My take is that all of the items in the proposal will be added, possibly with the exception of brugmansias. I do however feel that the dmt and mescaline items may end up being modified AFTER the scheduling as a result of public opposition. Then again this did not help in SA.

There is actually a silver lining to the new laws. The previous approach was to put the schedules into the act, which means any changes need to go through parliament. While this is an advantage for keeping some controversial items off the schedules, it is almost impossible to get politicians to pass new legislation to remove such things. ie under the old model if something ended up on the schedules it would be there forever. Under the new model it is a matter of an unscrutinised decision by the minister to go either way. ie if we can create enough of a fuss then it is pretty easy for them to remove some of the stupid items.

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If drug law is going federal, I don't get how come you, Torsten , got your knickers in such a twist last week when you pretty much had childish-meltdown about me pointing out various loopholes existing in NSW because NSW state law was indeed NOT federal.

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Datura becoming scheduled/ banned is a real shame. I am just starting to breed these plants for their amazing flowers and hoped to try my hand at some hybridising. I think your statement is interesting about Brugsmania Torston. Everyone I have ever talked Brug with out side of this forum refers to them as Datura, maybe this is just a Queensland thing? I might just start calling my metels brugmania.... and so the games begin. lol

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Datura becoming scheduled/ banned is a real shame. I am just starting to breed these plants for their amazing flowers and hoped to try my hand at some hybridising. I think your statement is interesting about Brugsmania Torston. Everyone I have ever talked Brug with out side of this forum refers to them as Datura, maybe this is just a Queensland thing? I might just start calling my metels brugmania.... and so the games begin. lol

Just about everyone i talk to calls them datura or tree datura also. I think this come from names being passed down with the plants from quite a while back. The general population don't keep up to date with, or care about, taxonomical changes.

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Datura becoming scheduled/ banned is a real shame. I am just starting to breed these plants for their amazing flowers and hoped to try my hand at some hybridising. I think your statement is interesting about Brugsmania Torston. Everyone I have ever talked Brug with out side of this forum refers to them as Datura, maybe this is just a Queensland thing? I might just start calling my metels brugmania.... and so the games begin. lol

I had this discussion with my mother a while ago when they turned up at my place with a Brugsmania for me and she kept calling it a Datura. This was an interesting time for me as my parents are normally spot on with plant names but she had no idea that she had been calling this group of plants by the wrong name for years. And here I am trying to explain to her she has got it wrong and I cant even pronounce Latin names correctly or even remember the common names of plants in my own garden. :lol:

Cheers

Got

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Brugs and daturas have different number of chromosomes and are simply not the same genus. The naming was changed several decades ago. if you are going to use botanical names then use the correct ones. otherwise stick with common names.

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Torsten I am aware of this, my point was if they enforce any scheduling and try and blanket ban Datura sp but OK Brugsmania, I'll mislabel my plants, sorry if that wasn't obvious in my other post. I was trying to be facetious. lol

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stillman - the schedules cover both datura and brugmansia. I just didn't bother mentioning the datura because they grow uncontrollably wild anyway.

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