Desfontainia- Warning!

[mindperformer]

http://herbs.maxforu...aria-tomentosa/

There you can read this text:

BIG BIG WARNING: Desfontainia supposedly contains compounds that are toxic when ingested orally! They are broken down by heat, but will cause toxic effects when eaten. This is based on the following report, the only other experience report I've seen on the internet:

 

I ordered in an ounce of d. spinosa foliage and three grams of 10x extract about two weeks ago, curious about a plant with reputedly salvia-like effects and such little information available.

 

 

Initially, I just tried smoking it, to reasonably good effect (strong stoning feeling, after a good bit, even a dissociative-like effect at higher amounts reminiscent of glaucine), but said dissociative effects were very short lived so elected to try a tea.

 

I brewed the remaining 3/4 or so of the ounce of foliage I had left for about twenty minutes, then strained off the plant matter and boiled the liquid down to a black, pungent decoction and drank about half of it. Effects didn't begin to manifest for about twenty minutes, and at first I experienced only a mild stoning effect even less pronounced than smoking. Over the course of the next hour, the effects gradually increased, but as they did I began to notice uncomfortable flushing, involuntary muscle spasms, nystagmus, and nausea, which all increased slowly to unbearable levels and were soon accompanied by diarrhea and tachycardia that makes an overdose of IV meth seem tame. I laid on the couch for five hours praying for it stop and considering calling an ambulance in between spells of hypnagogic weirdness, which seemed to reflect the comic books I had been reading that day (kept exploring slightly different realities, in each of which I was some sort of bizarro-Iron Man and there was some child and his family in a lab on a space station that I had something to do with and he was some sort of Messiah... pretty inane stuff, tbh, although it at least would have been amusing save for the feeling that I was being punished for the collective sins of humanity). I have no interest in trying again, ever. Perhaps smoked, as the unpleasant side effects never seemed to manifest with this route (perhaps the heat destroys the cytotoxic spinosides present in the plant?).

 

Anyway, goes to show why jumping blindly into an herb with unknown pharmcalogical action and practically no information or trip reports at all is never a good idea. If you're interested in trying, I definitely recommend sticking to smoking. It's nearly twenty four hours after I dosed and I still feel like toasted shit.

It didn't seem anticholinergic in the least, though. I blame the toxic effects on the spinosides, but from whence the dreamlike qualities stem I've no idea.

http://www.entheogen...hp?f=10&t=23192

Personally I felt a pretty hot numbing taste of a Desfontainia- tincture, like a mix of chili and sichuan pepper. Smoked in small quantities it has rather harsh smoke but not the hotness and I also had CEVs and a weak dream-like state.

My plant:

It is difficult to grow and much easier in a greenhouse with high humidity. It needs a sour PH and well drained soil.

Edited September 28, 2012 by mindperformer

[mindperformer]

As constituents there were found:

Eleven urs-12-ene triterpene compounds like ursolic acid acetate, pomolic acid, 23-hydroxytormentic acid, nigaichigoside F1, its ester glucoside and other hydroxytormentic acid derivatives,

three seco-iridoids like secoxyloganin, dimethyl secologanoside and sweroside,

three iridoids like loganin, loganetin, loganic acid and 7-O-(p-coumaryl)-loganin,

ester-linked triterpenes with seco-iridoid congeners: Desfontainic acid and Desfontainoside (the latter only in stems),

the furofuran lignans (+)-syringaresinol, (+)-syringaresinol 0-beta-D-glucopyranoside and liriodendrin,

the cytotoxic cucurbitacin H glycosides Spinoside A and B and the H-cucurbitacins 11-Deoxocucurbitacin I and 23,24-dihydro-11-Deoxocucurbitacin I.

The hallucinogenic action still can't be explained by the chemistry.

Edited September 28, 2012 by mindperformer

[solomon]

Mmm, I felt strong disassociative effects from this one smoking leaves and also flowers. Got mixed with Lobelia tupa flowers and leaves sometimes

Wasn't too keen to try a brew, I think Torsten has a post on it somewhere saying it made his tummy hurt.

I would have thought Desfontainia would be well suited to your climate mindperformer.

It's somewhat common here and i often mistake the big pruned bushes for holly if they are not in flower.

Any idea of what the seed pods look like? dont think I have ever seen em

gotta try taking some cuttings of this one soon

[mindperformer]

Spinoside A:

http://sci-toys.com/scichem/jqp030/5281325.html

Spinoside B:

http://www.plant-expert.com/plant-2130.html

Secoxyloganin:

http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=162868

Sweroside:

http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=161036

Loganin:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Loganin.png

Syringaresinol:

http://www.chemdrug.com/databases/10_1_yjjbxmkygobvmojd.html

Liriodendrin:

http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=73636

Syringaresinol inhibits cyclic AMP phosphodiesterase.

Liriodendrin, a component of many herbs (especially Eleutherococcus), was found to enhance the beta-Endorphine- levels.

Sweroside (also in Gentiana lutea) exhibited slight analgesic activity and is used as anti-hepatitis drug in chinese medicine.

Loganin has CNS exciting and analgesic effects and holds a key position in the biogenesis of Corynanthe- type Indolalkaloids.

[mindperformer]

we often have dry hot summers, so outside it wasn't possible to grow it.

Mine never fruited, but there is a pic:

http://www.naturekind.org/imgs/lkelly/r/Desfontainiaceae_Desfontainia_spinosa_4752.html

[solomon]

we often have dry hot summers, so outside it wasn't possible to grow it.

Mine never fruited, but there is a pic:

http://www.naturekin...inosa_4752.html

 

ah! so those little green pods are ripe fruit! i've always waited for them expecting to turn to a brown husk or something

I guess I have a bit of seed of this to spread round if anyone is interested.

[mindperformer]

It is also called Chapico, which means "chili water", maybe because of the hot taste...

More names: Latuye, Borrachera de páramo, Mechai, Michai, Michai blanco, Michay, Michay blanco, Muerdago, Taique, Trau-trau (Mapuche: "unique") and Trautrau.

In the mythology of chiloé the plant is associated with the satyrian forest spirit "El traúco" or "trau-trau".

It is distributed in the high andes from Colombia (Sibundoy valley) to South Chile (Chiloé Island). In Ecuador and Argentinia in even higher regions in the andes.

It is concentrated in the south of Valdivia in the undergrowth of lenga- and coigue- forests. The plant was also seen in the mountains of Costa Rica.

The shamans of the Kamsá in the Sibundoy valley (Colombia) make a tea from the leaves for visional medicinal-divinatory purposes.

The shamans (machis) of the Mapuche (Chile) use it like Latua pubiflora, which they gave a similar name: Latué.

In Chile the leaves are used medicinally as stomachic, but in South Chile the plant is also considered as toxic.

Edited September 28, 2012 by mindperformer

[M S Smith]

Whoa, when a moth like this in the Cordillera Blanca of Peru likes Desfontainia you should probably beware.

~Michael~

[Torsten]

the leaves in that pic are like the leaves I buy from south america. They look so very different to the ones on the plant in the original post, which is what we grow here. I can't get any effect from either.