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The Corroboree
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Legal Weed: Is it really legal?

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Hey guys.. just thought I'd query something. I am smoking a local incense called Noah.. and I have been thinking for a while now, how the hell todays legal weed still remains legal? I mean.. the law now states that any cannabinoid or cannabi-mimetic substance is deemed illegal.. ? So when I smoke this stuff I can tell 100% that my cannabinoid receptors are being agonised.

Its the same with basically any of the legal blends out today.. they are hitting the cb1 receptor bloody hard! When your a stoner of 15+yrs you can just tell when your stoned.. there's nothing else to it! It's not a different high.. it's a cannabinoid high!

Can anyone clarify how the hell these blends are remaining on the shelves without being tested by forensic cops or reported on the news? I mean.. I'm not complaining haha.. but I would love to know how these compounds are not cannabi-mimetics? It sure mimics cannabis for me!

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Testing is expensive and time consuming. When someone is cranking out a new blend once a week its hard to keep up.

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In WA there are no legal products like that anymore. However retailers still buy the product from overseas and other states where they are claimed to be 'legal everywhere'. That claim is always false and usually due to a lack of understanding of the laws. eg in Qld a supplier has a letter from a solicitor that claims his product is legal even though there has already been a prosecution and conviction for the compound. The solicitor simply wasn't aware of the state drug law analogues clause. There are some states that MAY still have loopholes for some compounds, but certainly not Qld, Vic, WA, SA and Tas, which are watertight.

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So in other other words the cops just cbf'd trying to stay ontop of it? I suppose it has gone a little more underground since the big bans so the media hasnt jumped all over it yet..

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The cops have much more important things to concentrate on, like making sure that mega-corporations aren't stealing from the poor and spending a lot of money lobbying government to change the laws to suit them, that media isn't corrupted by money so that important issues like climate change aren't ignored, that politicians aren't on the take, rather than persecuting small businesses struggling to survive and individuals who who want to enjoy their limited spare time.

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Too true mate

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The cops have much more important things to concentrate on, like making sure that mega-corporations aren't stealing from the poor and spending a lot of money lobbying government to change the laws to suit them, that media isn't corrupted by money so that important issues like climate change aren't ignored, that politicians aren't on the take, rather than persecuting small businesses struggling to survive and individuals who who want to enjoy their limited spare time.

If only this was true...

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The are some states that MAY still have loopholes for some compounds, but certainly not Qld, Vic, WA, SA and Tas, which are watertight

hey do you mean for locally, non-imported compounds or what? Cos the recent federal "cannibomimetic" law applies to all states. Hard to see a loophole.

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I am not sure about AU and NZ laws, however in the states they have just recently passed a similar law. However chemicals such as UR-144 are cannabinoid ANTAGONISTS, and therefore still legal; while still producing a similar effect :BANGHEAD2:

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thel - the federal TGA stuff is implemented differently in each state. In some it amounts to a max $8800 fine, in some it is implemented as part of the drug law [ie potential jail], and in some the potential penalties are far from clear.

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They are still available in shops in NQ - Iv seen the northern lights in cairns (they have all that stuff on display in shop fronts there), as well as these new 'party powders' or some crap that you're supposed to snort and some shops in Townsville have new ones that are often brightly coloured and smell of bubblegum sold in tobacconists and sex shops. One of which I tried once (a small pinch in a water pipe) and found extremely unpleasant almost dissociative. Everyone else who tried it said the same. I have no idea what's in any of these new ones and how they are still available (and in the case of cairns displayed so even people driving past can see). I remember reading in the local paper a while ago several townsville businesses were raided because of these products, but the new ones still seem to be very popular (every time Iv been into one of these businesses there has been at least one person who was buying some).

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There are far more online businesses selling incense these days than there was before the ban. The problem now is that some of them are scammers and some sell weak product.

They all claim that their products are completely legal in every state and being made with Fatty Acid Amide Hydrolase Endocannabinoids as opposed to Synthetic Cannabinoids. They are known to fake lab reports and pull all kinds of scams.

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The main basis of ongoing sales is the misquoting of the laws. Many suppliers will quote just the 8 or 9 compounds the TGA listed, but neglect to mention the TGA analogues revision. They also fail to mention the state drug laws and especially the state analogues laws. As I mentioned, I even know of solicitors who ahve provided legal opinions that are completely wrong because they ignore state drug analogues clauses.

In WA and Qld there are no legal compounds. Even the FAAH based products would be illegal here because of the TGA 'cannabinomimetics' phrasing. That said, the FAAH's don't work anyway. They are at best mild antidepressants, but do not give you a high. The reason why they sell so well is because the main chinese supplier sells CB13 labelled as the FAAH inhibitors. CB13 is in fact a cannabinoid agonist and has nothing to do with FAAH. All claimed FAAH blends have so far tested positive for agonists and hence are illegal. The only reason the market is still goign is because the states are slow to test and punish. It can take 3-5 months for a product to be analysed and by that time the manufacturers have moved onto the next one. There are however an increasing number of sellers facing some stiff penalties as a result.

Edited by Torsten
edited the last agonist which I had accidentally written as antagonist
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is a cannabinoid antagonist a "cannibinomimetic"? - I would think not.

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yes it is. cannabnomimetics include all agonists, antagonists, and anything that acts on CB1 or CB 2 receptors. It could even be argued that 'if it makes you FEEL stoned' then it is a mimetic, so I advise caution until this law has been tested. There is no legal or scientific definition for mimetic, which is why we were fighting that phrasing so hard.

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I've seen a few manufacturers claim that any similarities to cannabis are "purely coincidental", but somehow I doubt that would hold up legally.

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Yea, I saw a couple of tobacconists up this way selling Kronic for several weeks after bans had come into place.

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The main basis of ongoing sales is the misquoting of the laws. Many suppliers will quote just the 8 or 9 compounds the TGA listed, but neglect to mention the TGA analogues revision. They also fail to mention the state drug laws and especially the state analogues laws. As I mentioned, I even know of solicitors who ahve provided legal opinions that are completely wrong because they ignore state drug analogues clauses.

In WA and Qld there are no legal compounds. Even the FAAH based products would be illegal here because of the TGA 'cannabinomimetics' phrasing. That said, the FAAH's don't work anyway. They are at best mild antidepressants, but do not give you a high. The reason why they sell so well is because the main chinese supplier sells CB13 labelled as the FAAH inhibitors. CB13 is in fact a cannabinoid agonist and has nothing to do with FAAH. All claimed FAAH blends have so far tested positive for antagonists and hence are illegal. The only reason the market is still goign is because the states are slow to test and punish. It can take 3-5 months for a product to be analysed and by that time the manufacturers have moved onto the next one. There are however an increasing number of sellers facing some stiff penalties as a result.

Thanks heaps for that T. I had no idea about the lie about FAAH.

Can I please quote your post on an Aussie incense forum?

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yes you can quote, but please go to the original. I wrote antagonist instead of agonist at one point which I have now corrected. Not that I think it makes a difference to the law, but it is wrong to state that the FAAH products had antagonists in them as CB13 is indeed an agonist.

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I suspect manufacturers are currently using MAGL inhibitors + FAAH Inhibtors in combination to produce more profound effects, it might fall under cannabinomimetic but its your own brain producing the anandamide + 2AG that builds up during the inhibition. such things could be derived from glycerol, flavinoids, and various food grade materials might be a little hard to know what to test for. Back when they were looking at spice original they thought tocopherol (vitamin e) was being used as a masking agent, turns out tocopherol has an affinity for the cb1 receptor they probably had tweaked synthetic vitamin e into somthing a little more enjoyable. so far there tests may show various sugars, flavors, and vitamins good luck pushing a conviction with that.

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I suspect manufacturers are currently using MAGL inhibitors + FAAH Inhibtors in combination to produce more profound effects, it might fall under cannabinomimetic but its your own brain producing the anandamide + 2AG that builds up during the inhibition. such things could be derived from glycerol, flavinoids, and various food grade materials might be a little hard to know what to test for. Back when they were looking at spice original they thought tocopherol (vitamin e) was being used as a masking agent, turns out tocopherol has an affinity for the cb1 receptor they probably had tweaked synthetic vitamin e into somthing a little more enjoyable. so far there tests may show various sugars, flavors, and vitamins good luck pushing a conviction with that.

Wow. I never knew that.

How safe is it to be abusing synthetics that are creating effects via this process? Some people are smoking 100 cones of this stuff.

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