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Incarvillateine- stronger analgesic than morphine

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You guys found any source inside Australia with the sinensis variety?

no but there's another incarvillea on Aus eBay that might be worth investigating.

A heap of people are about to receive an extract from a member on here so it will be very interesting to start getting some reports in here. This is already the biggest compilation of information about the plant on the web that I can find, top of Google or close to it.

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no but there's another incarvillea on Aus eBay that might be worth investigating.

A heap of people are about to receive an extract from a member on here so it will be very interesting to start getting some reports in here. This is already the biggest compilation of information about the plant on the web that I can find, top of Google or close to it.

Cool, think i might grab as many different types a can and see what happens.

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I'm just going to re-post this info from an earlier page for all those folks who are about to trial this extract and mightn't want to read the entire thread:

the study noted that the analgesic effect of incarvillateine could be blocked not only by opioid-antagonists, but also by "adenosine receptor antagonists such as caffeine or theophylline", so that might be something to keep in mind when using this material.

Very interested to read some more reports.

(edited to fix link)

Edited by Anodyne

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I have some of these (sinensis variety) sprouted,

yesterday I removed about 30 from my aquaponic system where I sprouted them.

it is very hot and humid in there!

I had them started on a felted grass seed growing material called 'baby blanket'

The roots grew through it, so I ended up cutting out small sections and placing them into 2 1/2 inch starter pots with soil.

I took them outside in an area that gets a couple hours sun and then is in shade to acclimate.

Placed a piece of plastic screen on top to block direct sun more.

They seem happier already!

Later I will do the same with the rest of them.

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Is there some way to speak proper English and not say 'I'?

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I'm just going to re-post this info from an earlier page for all those folks who are about to trial this extract and mightn't want to read the entire thread:

the study noted that the analgesic effect of incarvillateine could be blocked not only by opioid-antagonists, but also by "adenosine receptor antagonists such as caffeine or theophylline", so that might be something to keep in mind when using this material.

Very interested to read some more reports.

(edited to fix link)

hey man these incarvillateine reports are making no sense.

having some everyday will increase your tolerance to anything :wink: but having now had 300, 500 and 1g with a day inbetween to relax the receptors before going again.

to me 500migs is good with some beers while smoking a bunga.....real good.........timtams and a cup of cammo good.lol

My pain in my lower back and shoulder is virtually non-existent with as little as 300mgs?

Maybe you guys are just pounding it everyday while on stims or something :blink:

last night some to the mrs 196migs at 9pm after two beers and some thai takeaway. anyway, had to carry her off to bed where she slept solidly until 7am for work. she txted me saying that her sleep was deep and refreshing.

Ie no hangover or dreariness that would possibly come with 1g and over - like benzo hangover the next day :innocent_n:

Having broken bones before, there has been occasion when stonger ,legal pain relief ie oxy's have been used, therefore prior usage of legal prescribed opiates is not uncommon to the report.

my batch did not come from stonewolf but another generous member here ,so maybe there's a discrepancy in reports/feedback due to the different suppliers or something.

either way, with the little brown bag which was received my advice would be to NOT start at anything over 300migs first time, especially if the user has little or no experience with pain medications apart from some paracetamol

Please be careful mates when dosing on anything that has no real quantitative research behind it in any clinical trials etc

Just play safe ffs..

p.s no 'i' was used or abused in this post :lol:

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also can we please merge the two dominant threads as one please modulators for ease of reference after the fact. thankyou i don't ask for much but this is probably one of those where all relevant info should be collated in one thread.

cheers

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To quote myself

i'm pretty sure mp used 2 grams of leaves not a 20:1 extract.....correct me if i'm wrong please mp.

Plus are there different forms of this plant? check it out

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Just lurking around the interwebs and saw this. I don't think I've seen it mentioned yet, apologies if it has.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23236415

Targeting fatty acid binding protein (FABP) anandamide transporters - a novel strategy for development of anti-inflammatory and anti-nociceptive drugs.

...Truxillic acids and their derivatives were also shown by others to have anti-inflammatory and anti-nociceptive effects in mice and to be the active component of Chinese a herbal medicine (Incarvillea sinensis) used to treat rheumatism and pain in humans. Our results provide a likely mechanism by which these compounds exert their effects.

Edited by Psiphi
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Ha, just stumbled across that same paper Psiphi, interesting stuff hey. I know they're discussing a synthetic molecule, not incarvillateine, but I'm wondering if this might help explain at least some of the variation we're seeing in people's reactions.

Here's some more highlights:

The core of SB-FI-26 is a prominent structural component of the natural product incarvillateine which is known to produce graded inhibition of pain and inflammation in formalin-induced mouse models, although the mechanism of action was not fully understood...

pone.0050968.g007.jpg

To establish a cannabinoid receptor-mediated mechanism of action, mice were pretreated with a combination of the cannabinoid receptor 1 and 2 antagonists, rimonabant and SR144528, respectively. The antinociceptive and anti-edematous effects of SB-FI-26 were completely reversed by rimonabant and SR144528...

Following biological screening and binding analyses of these inhibitors, we have shown that the novel FABP inhibitor SB-FI-26 produces antinociceptive and anti-inflammatory effects in mice. These findings are in agreement with a previous study demonstrating that some α-truxillic acid derivatives exhibited antinociceptive properties, although the mechanism of action was not identified [15]. Interestingly, incarvillateine, comes from the dried plant Incarvillea sinensis (Jiaohao, Kakko, Cheron, Tougucao) used in Chinese herbal medicine to treat rheumatism and relieve pain. Our studies may now ascribe a mechanism by which this natural product and related truxillic acid compounds may exert their effect in part.

It was subsequently reported that certain derivatives of α-truxillic acid activate PPARγ [17]. Although our work demonstrates that SB-FI-26 behaves as a weak agonist at PPARα and PPARγ, its antinociceptive effects were abolished by cannabinoid receptor antagonists. Therefore, the antinociceptive effects of SB-FI-26 likely resulted from potentiation of endocannabinoid signaling...

Edited by Anodyne
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very cool!

man, starting these from seed is bogus...better to get a live plant.

some might still make it though...next time I will disinfect and start in sterile conditions/micropropagate...then root cuttings

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So we know that effects of incarvillateine can be blocked by opioid & adenosine antagonists - it would be very very interesting to find out whether they were also blocked by cannabinoid antagonists like those synthetic analogues were. I think we'll have to wait on the research companies for that answer though - unless someone happens to have some SR144528 laying around... and really, why would you?

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I'd say 6-4 months old man, I'm bad at keeping track! No more than 6mths old tho

To germ I just kept em moist and in the shade, normal commercial potting mix + sand

Edited by theuserformallyknownasd00d

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I'd say 6-4 months old man, I'm bad at keeping track! No more than 6mths old tho

To germ I just kept em moist and in the shade, normal commercial potting mix + sand

Thanks, mine are taking there time, did you bury the seed at all?

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A couple of the ones I started from seed might make it....many did not.

Some observations:

Next time, I will plant them micropropagation style,

as well as possibly plant them the usual way in soil that is either coir/perlite sand mix, heavier than usual on the sand side

or maybe 50/50 potting soil/sand.

Also, I will not try to transplant them or start them in an aquaponic system above damp perlite on felted grass...these like it dry.

felted grass substrate is great for starting seeds and microgreens but can also be more inclined to get fungus if not in good light and damp.

Try to plant in a manner that can transplanting until these get larger.

Avoid 'damping off' ...keep dry but water....in the soil that drains well.

Or, happy go lucky seemed to work for those doing it that way. outside in warmer months on the shade side of another plant

Avoid excessive moisture bigtime

Edited by shonman

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Got a flower today...

Purty.

post-14605-0-71699900-1444972659_thumb.j

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Huh? Tou Gu Cao is Caulis Impatientis, Caulis Speranskiae Tuberculata, or Caulis Leptostachya. I couldn't find any reference to any species of Incarvillea in my Chinese medicine resources.

Our primary analgesic herb is Yan Hu Sou, Corydalis rhizome, which is soaked in vinegar and then fried to amplify its painkilling effect when decocted.

Edited by Scarecrow

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Cordyalis is a b^tch to cultivate in the USA.....no silkworms available!!

Or I would, for sure.

I has been/ is being done.

The seeds I planted for Incarvella Sinensis ...a few survived, and have started growing faster.

Got more seeds

Lesson: Just do things the proven way/ follow instructions the first time, experiment later.

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Has anyone tried rooting these from cuttings?

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Cordyalis is a b^tch to cultivate in the USA.....no silkworms available!!

Or I would, for sure.

Silkworms? I think you're thinking of something else. Corydalis is just a plant :P

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Scarecrow, maybe it's a regional difference, or different schools of medicine. Beijing Uni published this paper which names five species known/used as tougucao, including those you mentioned plus incarvillea & a clematis:

Abstract

The five species of Tougucao, especially Speranskia tuberculata and Incarvillea sinensis have very low toxicity. Four species of Tougucao showed analgesic effects and inhibited the increase of blood capillary permeability of the abdominal induced by injection of acetic acid, but only Speranskia tuberculata showed inhibitory effect on the swelling of the ear caused by crotin. Speranskia tuberculata should be named as the botanical origin of Tougucao, and Incarvillea sinensis, Impatiens balsamina and Clematis intricata should be used in their respective names.

So they seem to agree that this is some bad naming protocol, but it does support the idea of traditional usage.

Shonman, maybe you're thinking of Cordyceps?

Edited by Anodyne

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