remedies for 'brainfriedness'

[etherealdrifter]

i had a friend in postwar serbia that swore by DL phenylalanine after a big night out with nazi mathod whizzfizz. she reckons around 800mgs of it on the decescent from the mountainous region would help here with the shitbog feelings.

[Anodyne]

i would love to hear what you have to say about MDMA regardless, Anodyne.

even if it doesn't precisely affect my situation, i'm sure someone, if not myself, will use the information.

 

I have nothing new to say, really. This article, "The ecstasy manifesto", seems to be one of the better ones out there (sorry, I can't find a version with the references intact). It's long, and I only skimmed some sections - one thing I'd point out is that most of the supplements recommended may be theoretically/generally helpful, but there are no studies showing that they help specifically with MDMA neurotoxicity. The Erowid lot of MDMA FAQs are a bit of a mixed bag.

They're learning new stuff all the time, but as I understand, it's believed that you can avoid a lot of the neurotoxicity from MDMA simply by avoiding overheating (very important, as hyperthermia can cause liver damage too). MDMA fucks with your temperature regulation, so this can be harder than it sounds. Plus all the hopefully-common-sense stuff about knowing the dosage, purity, and identity of your drugs. As we get more info, re-dosing and "booster" doses are beginning to look more and more like a bad idea. Animal studies suggest that taking anti-oxidants may be a very good idea, but be aware that high doses are probably needed for this to help, so eat berries, drink tea/juice, plus whatever AO supplements, before, during, and for 2-3 days after. I also think that people often forget the really basic stuff whilst partying - like the fact that your body needs food and sleep to function well.

[IndianDreaming]

Here's a few more helpful items for the general advice line of discussion...

Time is your best friend, and also your worst enemy - So it's important to use your time wisely. If you sit there on the couch expecting to get better, those seconds will pass very slowly and painfully. If you occupy yourself, time flies and your brain starts firing normally again a lot quicker. Here's a few helpful things to keep in mind...

After you've removed the offending chemical(s):

 

• Getting daily routines re-established is highly beneficial. It's much easier to stick with the healthy eating, excercise and sleep if its at regular times. Set alarms to remember to eat, drink water, go for a walk etc... At the time the alarm goes off, even if you're feeling crap, get up and do whatever you've set yourself to do. The more you can stick to a schedule, the more easily your body can re-synchronise itself and get some reliable patterns back.
  
• Setting yourself tasks to do gets your brain exercising. Even simple things like washing the dishes, mowing the lawn, reading a book, and especially logistical tasks like jigsaw puzzles, building models, painting, construction of any sort - stimulates the spatial and temporal pattern processing parts of your brain.
  
• Setting simple, repeatable, achievable goals gives you a really satisfying feeling, a sense of accomplishment. You feel like you're actually getting there with every action. 'walked the dog' - tick! 'Ate some food' - tick! And the more of these goals you set and complete, the more your mind is distracted from the cycle of thought 'Oh dear, I've fried my brain, what am I going to do'
  
• Spend time re-living your life. Dig though your life to find all the things in the past that made you happy. Find photo albums, hobbies, things you've built, and think about activities from primary school, school, work, that you did years ago - what were you thinking then? what did you want to achieve? what made you happy?... Jump in the car and drive to a family holiday destination you used to go to as a child. Physical locations, photos, art you've created, friends you haven't seen for ages, foods, smells and sounds - all re-activate parts of your mind that may be dormant at the moment. These 'memory triggers' are really effective at jump starting your brain. You'll be surprised at how quickly you can re-kindle yourself with this method.
  
• Don't rush. It probably took you a long while to run yourself down. And you probably had an absolute wow of a time doing it. There's absolutely no reason you can't have a wow of a time re-building yourself too. If you expect it to happen overnight, or you'll find a magic pill to fix everything, you're setting yourself up for a fall. Treat your recovery like a game, have a laugh when you stuff up, catch yourself in a moment of destructive thought and chuck a dollar in a jar. Think of milestones you can set to show yourself you're on the mend: 'Ate breakfast every day for 7 days' tick! 'Only touched myself 3 times today' tick! - bit by bit is the key, too much at once and you overload and crash - this can dampen your motivation.
  
• Keep a diary - If you're having trouble keeping track of your progess, write a few notes a day in a diary to track your progess - write down positive things and negative things, and have a quick read when you get out of bed - this can help you to see that you're moving forward. Even if your not a diary writer, is it going to hurt to give it a go?
  
• Don't isolate yourself - Friends, family, work, social outings, playing with animals, visiting grannies - are all really stimulating for your brain. The more you hang out with every day folk doing everyday things, the more you'll fall back into step with everyday thinking and living.
  

 

All of the above things are fairly normal every day activities, and I find most of them enjoyable. When you've fried your brain though, remembering these simple things can be far from easy.

If this sort of thing interests you, take a look at cognitive behaviour therapy, a simplified version is: what you think -> affects how you feel -> affects what you do - (and the reverse) what you do -> affects how you feel -> affects what you think.

If you make changes in all 2 of the 3 areas the other one will fall into place. And getting them in sync is important. Taking a drug to fix a problem is forcing the middle bit. It just jump starts the feeling bit. If your thoughts and activities are not in sync, when the drug wears off your thoughts and activities will pull your feelings back down again. If you take a drug for temporary relief, try to ensure your thoughts and activites can balance it out to maintain the effect, a simple example of this is a chamomile tea at bed time whilst listening to relaxing music (music helps your thoughts relax, the tea does the same and so does your bed). And if it's your brain thats fried, you need to work in reverse - do activities -> to make you feel good -> to get your brain working properly again. Hence the activities above I hope this long ramble is of some use to you, the act of writing it has been great for me!

Edited September 2, 2012 by IndianDreaming

[totemgoat]

definitely of use IndianDreaming, and i really do appreciate the effort put into your writings.

it seems you've just about covered all the fundamentals of rehabilitation, and i'm very impressed by that.

i especially like the diary idea, even one entry a week would be enough to allow an individual some hold on the way their conditions are progressing.

Anodyne, that article is unbelievable; I just sat there and slammed my way through the entire thing without a single moment of distraction.

while i can't say anyone else's comments have not been useful, far the opposite in fact, that is the kind of article i originally came here looking for.

i suggest everyone interested in the topic reads it, as while the amazingly helpful members here have covered the difficult process of recovery and given their own personal remedies, http://www.drugs-for...ead.php?t=25637 (The Ecstasy Manifesto) covers angles of both mechanism and damage prevention which i believe are applicable to just about any seretonin manipulating psychoactive.

Edited September 3, 2012 by totemgoat

[Anodyne]

Anodyne, that article is unbelievable; I just sat there and slammed my way through the entire thing without a single moment of distraction.

while i can't say anyone else's comments have not been useful, far the opposite in fact, that is the kind of article i originally came here looking for.

...(The Ecstasy Manifesto) covers angles of both mechanism and damage prevention which i believe are applicable to just about any seretonin manipulating psychoactive.

 

Cool, glad you found it useful.

Just keep in mind that while much of the advice may fall into the generally-useful category, some is quite specific to MDMA, and will not cross over to just any drug with a serotonergic mechanism. The "oxidative stress" problems, for instance - I could be wrong, but afaik that mechanism (and therefore all the preventative advice pertaining to it) doesn't apply to LSD, psilocybin, DMT or other tryptamines - it may apply to MDMA-analogues with very similar mechanisms of action, but probably not mescaline, for instance.

Out of that article I found this bit most interesting:

§ Small doses of MDMA (equivalent to a human dose of <1mg/kg) cause up-regulation. This appears to stimulate the development of new serotonin neurons.

 

 

 

 

I've read this before - that occasional threshold doses of MDMA (in the 30-50mg range) might help to reverse the 5-HT2 downregulation caused by high/frequent MDMA use (I think this also occurs for other drugs with 5HT2 effects, like LSD - though shorter-lasting and less severe ) . I don't know what research this claim is based on, but it would be interesting if true.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2012 by Anodyne

[DarkSpark]

5-HTP and b6 will help you to alleviate the symptoms of the 'Brainfriedness' but will not actually cure it as such. As the serotonin tolerance is temporary, low dose 5-HTP and B6 should keep you feeling at a relatively normal level, and tapering off the dose may theoretically leave your serotonin receptors without the tolerance, and your brain producing ideal amounts of serotonin on its own(not needing the 5-HTP) Essentially this would purely be masking the symptoms and hoping your body fixes itself underneath.

My comments here are very uneducated as i am only going off what i read briefly into the topic a while back. And the stuff i was reading generally related to MDMA usage. However The damage should still be temporary and a combination of a few things in this thread should help immensely.

- good diet and excersize, this is what is actually going to help you to get better. I am still unawares of a quickfix for damaged brain receptors sorry.

- Happy, Bright, Fun environment, try and surround yourself with happy bright colors and people. Try to think of positive things when you can.

- 5-HTP and B6, low dosages of these to boost serotonin levels may mask the symptoms.

- patience, many people i have spoken to say it has taken them years to fully recover but a lot of these people were not eating well and so forth.

A final note is that i have heard Brahmi (Bacopa Monneiri) is meant to help with the protection and rebuilding of damaged neuron. Also regulates GABA and Serotonin when they are up/down-regulated

According to scientists at the Central Drug Research Institute in Lucknow' date=' India, certain "memory chemicals" in [i']Bacopa,[/i] called bacosides A and B, help repair damaged neurons by enhancing proteins involved in the regeneration of neural-cell synapses. These are the relay stations of the brain that facilitate the transmission of neural impulses. Thus Bacopa can be viewed as a neural nourisher, restoring depleted synaptic activity and leading to enhanced memory function.

[Thelema]

Yet downregulation of 5ht2a receptors, due to 5ht2a agonists is meant to reduce feelings of suicidality and depression. maybe what you need is just to set up a regular, less frequent doseage schedule of nbome or whatever it is you're taking. I find it hard to believe that nbome could leave you feeling brainfried. This feeling is probably more likely due to seretonin releasers, like MDMA, amT etc which as a group have been proven to be neurotoxic especially in hig dose schedules.

I was also reading just today that 5ht2a receptors are pretty unique in that downregulation ALSO occurs with ingestion of 5ht2a antagonists i.e quetiapine, olanzapine.

[totemgoat]

i'm not sure i understand how the discussion led to suicide and depression Thelema, have i missed something?

the predicament i'm referring to relates mostly to diminished cognitive function, not emotional disturbance, although that does no doubt remain an issue.

i am almost certain this relates to LSD, and/or NBOMe.

considering one example, prior to ever consuming MDMA, one friend experienced both NBOMe and LSD a number of times over a course of two years and has found a severe disruption in their thinking capabilities since these expeditions.

according to them, the downgrade began after they commenced using LSD very regularly over a period of months prior to NBOMe consumption.

since then, though, they began taking both 25C&25I-NBOMe, and remarked that this seems to have caused an increase in the severity of their symptoms.

either way, the main purpose of this thread is to find ways to remedy and prevent the symptoms we're talking about; loss of short-term memory, difficulty focusing, visual obscurities, and the like.