Acacia acuminata

[planthelper]

we ignore above two post's!

[Seldom]

yeah i have no time for this.

people in here have no idea who I am.

phyllode i do have an idea of who you are, at the time of post #34 i assumed you were nen888 from the nexus, but I now know that you're not. I stand by what it says there. You sent me a pm at the nexus with details about who you are. my profile name there is Seldom.

My point is that you need to consider resisting the indignity of speaking for [or cursing people] on behalf of something which you may not fully understand.

i don't belong to a world in which it's possible to score any kind of points by saying nasty things about people. and i've never encountered anything i could call an Aussie scene. the people i know who have knowledge about tryptamine acacias i can count on 1 hand.

[folias]

Santiago, 

Hey, I'm not dead! 



Phyllode, 

I don't know who you are or what axe you have to grind or why, it all sounds like a poor excuse for you to get worked up and project shit onto someone else who you don't know and may not have even met! !

You are arrogant and interested in your own agenda, not ecology or helping people.





most people reading this are just going to think you are talking about yourself, as it is such blindingly clear projection!






On behalf of the plants I curse you.






ha! So much hate! Clearly you are with the dark side! ;-)

 You might want to expend that energy dealing with your own issues dude! Like Bulls on Parade this looks like projection to the max. Seen it all before! Met people like you before. As for DMT, I've written a book and have covered these issues in there. It is a big topic. I guess a lot of us, would not be able to imagine what life would be like without the experiences we have had with DMT! 




Julian.

Edited November 5, 2012 by folias

[santiago]

sorry julian im sure there was a post that was modified by planthelper in the edit comments that said ''remarks about a dead person'', i thought it was you....glad your breathing man : )

[mindperformer]

I will ignore the insane aggressive posts of phyllode...

folias, is your book obtainable? I would be glad to read it :-)

[folias]

Mindperformer,

I'm just editing my book at the moment, and it will likely by published next year by a well known publishing house.

[phyllode]

So people who passionately get upset at people who kill trees are on the 'dark-side'.?

Aggression? Ever seen a mother defend her children from male violence? That's NATURE. Boy.

There are people in northern NSW who still curse your name because of what you did to trees there.

I might write a book exposing you and what you've done folias. As an example mindperformer.

This IS Acacia Wars!

Don't think, folias, that you can sit back in your armchair with profits made from wild plants you got on to about 10 years after the fact. Don't think that you're doing yourself any good publicity for your book here.

I got 5 PMs this week at the Nexus thanking me for the stance 'phyllode' took in here.

And, no offence Bulls. But the stakes here are living beings in the bush vs. commercial exploiters.

A book on DMT folias?

Please tells us something we don't already know. A book on DMT. So more people can ignore the beings who showed you this space.

A book on the true history of dmt Acacias in australia would be very educational, and show you up for what you are.

Delete me. Move me if you like. But I'm REAL. And I'm HERE in you're reality.

Fear me killa:)

[mindperformer]

@phyllode: you can fight your acacia-wars with yourself, I must laugh about your crazy shit

#

sometime they'll give a war and nobody will come ;-)

#

I don't fear you little worm

@ folias: thats fine, will it be obtainable in Europe?

Edited November 6, 2012 by mindperformer

[mindperformer]

by the way, there are much more threatened plants because of nonsustainable collections of medicinal barks, like cat's claw (Uncaria tomentosa) in some regions, also Lapacho, Jatoba, Catuaba and many more are barks... but there are also regions where they grow in bulks and there are also reforestations

even with paranuts (Brazil nuts) - collection from the gound in Amazonia (always from wild trees), there is a problem because in some areas they collect too much, so that no new seedling can grow...

then there are many roots and stems used in TCM, some from endangered plants, like Dendrobium sp., a Glycyrrhiza- species, wild ginseng, Catharanthus roseus, snow lotus and pacific yew

I think this problems are much bigger, considering the big global market for this plants in comparison to the Dimitri- plants

Edited November 6, 2012 by mindperformer

[mindperformer]

I saw the snow lotus at around 5.000m altitude in the indian himalaya (Ladakh, Kardung La):

Saussurea medusa:

or course I didn't take it...

[Seldom]

i'm tired and high but if i was hearing 90% of this ish in real life my reaction would be making the sock-puppet-talking motion with my hand, shaking my head with solemn smile, calling yall would-be if you could bes (in an endearing way ..)

p.s folias i hope you have someone there to correct your punctuation ..

...

butterflies and unicorns

[LokStok]

I saw the snow lotus at around 5.000m altitude in the indian himalaya (Ladakh, Kardung La):

Saussurea medusa:

 

wow

great picture!

awesome plant!

[mindperformer]

thanks, LokStok

[etherealdrifter]

personally, i deplore hand puppetry

own your worditree

heehee

shite meaningless words behind faceless combatants freakin confuse and annoymee

[etherealdrifter]

sorry

i mean't to post that in nabraxas 's topic about being smart , that's why people drink thread.

sorry ,

[folias]

Addressed these points in a more diplomatic way in the post below :-)

Edited November 12, 2012 by folias

[ballzac]

I think the discussion of ethics is valuable, but the personal attacks have to stop. I've removed phyllode's last post and folias' response, but I've left all the previous posts because I think there is value in the discussion that was happening.

But, the next person who makes a personal attack in this thread, however indirect, will receive a warn point, and if another member takes the bait and attacks back, they will also receive a warn point. Phyllode and folias, it is probably best if you do not even address each other in this thread as there is clearly a lot of aggression and it might be difficult to keep it civil. I will not enforce this, so if you are confident that you can discuss this without personal attacks, then feel free to do so. But I will use my discretion if I think that a post was inflammatory, and if you've failed to follow my advice and decide to address each other, you have to accept that you're risking a warn point.

[phyllode]

You removed my response to folias's last post. Is that free speech?

1) I am female

2) I am not writing a book

3) I am not the only person with this opinion

If you can't take the heat, don't play with fire.

[folias]

Phyllode,

Personally, I have thought and have always thought this is all so silly. the heat doesn't worry me. I've been pretty deliberately high profile (err, why do you think that is? ) as a matter of course, for over a decade and if people decide to scapegoat me for a whole bunch of things they believe that is going on, well, do you think I really care?

There are hundreds, if not thousands of people harvesting all sorts of different trees all over the east coast. The little north coast bubble is just a small part of that. Most of these people are really very conscious and aware folk and there are a few who are not.

I've come to feel all this is a psychic thing, with a small bunch of people being pissed that their little dinner party is being replicated all over the place, and that people no longer need to turn to them for recipes and drinks. It is not really an ecological thing. Negative tribal sentiment is easy to stir (with some people spreading all kinds of lies and wild stories about me), but its all about a strawman. I don't even see it as being about me.

Thing is, in this field, there are so many people in the shadows who think that is so clever and "cool", they don't like any spotlight upon them and what *they* are doing and I think that is what someone like me, who has been more open and forthcoming and sharing, has brought to ahead - its easier for them to point the finger at me to protect their assumed interests.

A lot of the north coast crew have seriously thought of me as a narc! And to me, that shows how uninformed they are. It is a place of much negative gossip and bad vibes. ok, so if I really am a narc, that goes to show how little they know, if their accusations about me are at all accurate!

Your "lynchmob" is then based on what? I don't even know what people say about me, but from what I hear, most of it is total BS! My name is just a convenient name to bandy around.

I can appreciate Nen's intentions, but feel he has gone over the top at times, spreading information which cause people to exaggerate the issues at hand. Species like Obtusifolia is thriving in many places on the east coast. It is a common tree. He said to me 13 years ago he saw a whole forrest cut down. I didn't disbelieve him at the time, but he still posits this an ongoing issue, when he is the only person to have reported this.

Like I said earlier, there is one stand of trees which the north coast community was so concerned about for many years, of which all the Obtusifolias, as a pioneer species, most of them fell down and rotted in the last five or so years! THAT is poor resource management. All this wowserishness was about this stand of trees. If you know the area well, there are other places where new stands of trees are coming up, but in that place, the canopy is too big now for many new trees to grow there. It is not a black and white issue. Uninformed minds think: trees chopped = bad. When in fact, there is a LOT more going on here.

Many are concerned about the native flora, and that is understandable. Nen's fears are understandable up to a point. I did write an open letter to the Australian ethnobotany community over ten years ago, that communicated that we needed to grow more plants now! Only in the last few years have people really gotten onto that and I've been glad to help them when possible.

btw, thanks for putting all this out there Phyllode. It is good to at least hear what some people are thinking. Most of the time, you never know, because they don't say anything or write anything.

Julian.

[phyllode]

Nen just cares passionately about trees. I think he was talking about somewhere on the central NSW coast and also those coloured mountains. If you were involved in accidentally letting a species name out to the world and watched it get exploited, you might be as 'defence orientated' as he is.

Only he can speak for himself, but I know power, fame or money are not his games.

Also, don't forget removing even dead trees from certain sensitive ecosystems is both illegal and unhelpful to that system.

My reaction comes from putting out statements on websites that could be interpreted as being like 'open season' on obtusifolia. And overseas interests. No folias, you're not the mafia. But there is one.

You may have mellowed folias, but there are seriously exploitive types who won't even post on the net.

So, at least you give your perspective.

It's also in particular LARGE MOTHER SEED TREES being cut down, rather than large numbers, which is an issue for me. These trees can be very old, and are the genetic restock for the environment.

peace

[Torsten]

Before folias/Julian came along the harvesting of bark was done quite sensitively by people who cared for the local forests more than for their wallets or personal aggrandisement. It was done from obtusifolias that had fallen over in storms in NNSW state forests - often in inconvenient locations. Folias changed all that. It suddenly became acceptable to take live trees from conveneint locations including protected national parks. It also became acceptable to harvest species that are listed as endangered or rare. Discussion on this topic usually ended in 'but the trees told me it is OK to take them'. This 'word from a higher source' is the usual messianic bullshit any cult leader uses to justify his actions no matter how unethical they are. These forums document the discussion on that topic over the years quite well and anyone interested but not familiar with the issues can look them up.

The same egocentric and greedy justifications are still used by the people who folias/Julian shared his knowledge with so that there is still harvesting going on of the rare A.courtti and the rare A.phlebophylla, which was previously unthinkable. There might be some justification in this if these were the only sources of DMT, but fact is that there is plenty of obtusifolia in gippsland which is a weed there and plenty of acuminata in WA. These could be harvested extensively without any ethical issues. But this is where convenience and greed come into it. Obtusifolia from gippsland is much lower yielding than the rarer species, and aciminata is in WA which is a long way from the main markets on the east coast.

I don't share the attitude of some of Julian's other critics in that the whole DMT thing should have been kept more quiet. I am all for free information exchange. But I think anyone with a slight interest and understanding of ecology would be hesitant to publicise a rare species as a source of a commodity. It is sometimes a good idea to not share everything.

Julian, you said at Entheongaia that you wished people would be more forthcoming with their criticism of you rather than talking behind your back. I had to laugh at that comment but did not feel like interrupting the flow of the largely selfcongratulatory love-in panel. I am not surprised people don't confront you because your end argument is always that people have some psychic problem or that they simply do not understand your superior intellect or superior spiritual level. Or that the trees or aliens told you that you were right. Ever considered that you were just a shallow, greedy, and self absorbed bullshitter who happend to stumbled on a ticket to ride? If you really had this higher intellect or spirituality, why is it you are so toxic to the people around you? I look at the people that pass through your life and wonder what long term improvements you can claim to have brought to their lives? How many are more drug addicted, more mentally ill, more destitute, or even dead after spendign time with you? DMT is an amazingly beneficial drug, but you just don't seem to realise that it is not safe for everyone. You've done some great work, but you've also really fucked up a lot fo things and a lot of people. It's a pity psychedelics did not instil you with a sense of responsibility like they do with most others. Your greatest legacy from the last decade is to show how excessive DMT consumption can mess up your moral and ethical compass. Lets hope you've got something better planned for the next decade.

[Heretic]

harvesting bark or leaves from live wild trees is unacceptable .....from National Parks , roadside plantings , or other public lands.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Heretic

[mutant]

awesomely interesting thread!

even SAB's drama threads are the best of their kind.

Torsten post was a road roller - and it was needed, I think.

In any case its useful, especially for us from a country where a psychedelic scene never existed and probably will never exist in the form it exists in USA or OZ.

[mindperformer]

@ Torsten, thanks for the info on folias,

now I understand the reason for phyllode's aggression, although it was a bit nonspecific...

folias did sell the harvested material right? so it was all about making money?

[ballzac]

folias did sell the harvested material right? so it was all about making money?

 

lol. I think T was very careful not to incriminate anyone specific.