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Great post, I suddenly have a renewed interest in Orchids

Edited by SallyD
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Wow, very cool, thanks for sharing this i'd never considered orchids in this way. As SallyD says, I also have a new found interest in orchids!

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Adaptation._film.jpg

amazing film. it's all about orchids, there are no car chases, there is no romance, nobody solves any personal issues. it's just about the beauty of flowers.

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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thanks 4 all the compliments... i like to share knowledge about our nature B)

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Where did you find the info on orchids? I had heard a few rumours some being used medicinally (like Dendrobium teretifolium for pain) but there is precious little online about orchid use.

http://www.technologyenhancingnature.com/pdf/_The_Uses_and_Misuses_of_Orchids_in_Medicine.pdf

http://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1130&context=ebl

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Thank so much again mindperformer.

Had just been talking orchids today :)

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good work geezer!

anyone know where i can get some Epipactis helleborine seeds or plants?

Edited by nabraxas

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Mindperformer, I've read a couple of your threads now with great interest.

Are these all your pictures, of plants you are growing yourself? Quite an interesting collection.

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Very interesting post.

My wife has recently started an Orchid collection to go with my ever expanding Cacti collection.

She will read this with interest I am sure, thanks for sharing

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That's pretty interesting! I knew that some orchids could be used as a food source, however hadn't heard anything about psychoactive properties.

Thanks for sharing :)

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@ Alice: All the pictures I added, are taken by myself. Of course not all plants on the fotos are still alive...

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Irie,

Nice thread!

Respect,

Z

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was thinking about getting some Epipactis helleborine seed, but this put me off:

Seed viability is an issue, Epipactis seed stored at room temperature is reported to fail at germination after a matter of weeks. 2)

Epipactis seed is known to be difficult to germinate3) , and special attention must be made in seed sterilisation (longer than for most orchid genera 4) 5) ) and cold pretreatment. In here thesis 6), Erika Szendrák sums up most of the academic results regarding disinfection:

Less frequently used disinfectants are ethanol, hydrogen peroxide and mercuric chloride according to the literature. In some cases, disinfectants or some fungicides/bactericides are directly added to the medium, but the effects of these chemicals are often harmful or inhibitory for the geminating seeds. Leaching or soaking in distilled water or low concentrations of growth regulating chemicals can be helpful to promote germination but it has not been found to solve all difficulties related to breaking the dormancy of orchid seeds with problematic germination.

The work by Hanne Rasmussen on Epcts. palustris 7) gives us vital information on temperature pretreatment:

Scarification of the testa in Ca(OCl)2, an initial incubation for several weeks at 27°C, and a subsequent cold stratification for 8–12 weeks at 4–8°C, With these pretreatments, germination responses exceeded 50% after incubation for 4 weeks at 20°C. Healthy protocorms with normal organ development were only produced by symbiotic culture following this lengthy seed preparation. The findings suggest that under natural conditions the seeds need some after-ripening, and the testa needs to be partially decomposed before germination. The requirement for chilling suggests that germination of seeds in situ occurs in spring.

The temperature pretreatment appears to be directly linked to the flowering period. Most species aflower in Summer and release their seeds rather late in the year. As a result the seeds lie dormant during winter and only germinate in Spring the following year. This seems to be the main reason why it's important to subject the seeds to a cold period for successful germination. Epcts. gigantea confirms this: it flowers in Spring and as a result the seeds have ample time to germinate during Autumn of the same year. It's the only species which is not bothered with temperature pretreatment and is relatively easy in asymbiotic germination 8)

http://culturesheet.org/orchidaceae:epipactis

that seems abit beyond me.

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Vanda tessellata / roxburghii:

a>

This orchid is in medical use in Westbengal, India and Burma. When bees sip nectar from the flower, they crash down narcotized. Ayurvedic shamans use the flowers in a decoction, to put their patients in a hypnotic narcosis. The flowers are also used as aphrodisiac which is already clinically tested. The plant contains heptacosane, octacosanol, alkaloids, glycosides among others. The action is based on a stimulation of cholinergic neurons. Dose: 5-10g root (dried).

Oncidium cebolleta- flower:

a>

(syn. Oncidium longifolium)

Used by the tarahumara in Mexico als Peyote- substitute. There were found phenanthrene- alkaloids.

Epipactis helleborine- flowers:

Wasps are intoxicating themselfes with the nectar, become sluggish and crash down. The nectar contains the strongest opiate found in nature, oxycodone (not the strongest opioid because there are more potent peptides in the secretion of the frog Phyllomedusa bicolor). In the nectar there was found alcohol, indol-alcaloids and methoxyeugenol too.

a>

Cypripedium pubescens- root (cultivated):

a>

An orchid, which has become rare in nature, it is conservated. The north-american indians use the root to balance nerve-tensions and to counteract anxiety. In the dried tuber were found essential oils, resins, glycosides and tannines. It acts as a sedative, antidepressant, hypnotic and spasmolytic. High doses can be hallucinogenic. A normal dose can be 2-4g of the dried tubers.

Gastrodia elata:

a>

An orchid which live parasitically on the fungus Armillaria mellea, which is on his part an parasite on trees. The tuber of the orchid is used in the traditional chinese medicine because of sedative, aphrodisiac and mentally strengthening actions. It has also anticonvulsant, antiinflammatory, neuroprotective and antidepressive actions. There was found the anxiolytic phenol gastrodin. Together with 4-hydroxybenzaldehyde it inhibits the breakdown of GABA. The plant has also action of glutamate-receptors.

Dendrobium nobile- hybrid:

a>

It contains terpenalkaloids like nobilin and others. There are new reports on a psychoactive action like Cannabis from this orchid (with munchies, narcotic components,...):

http://psychotropico...drobium-nobile/

But: Dendrobine is a GABA-antagonist.

Dendrobium loddigesii- Stengel aus einer TCM-Apotheke:

a>

Dendrobium- species contain dendrophenol and also phenanthrenes. Both Dendrobiums are called "shi hu" in TCM. There are many reports of the aphrodisiac action.

Dendrobium teretifolium is used as analgetic.

Anoectochilus formosanus:

contains GHB-like substances (4-hydroxybutanoic acids):

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18404313

It is a small decorative orchid from Taiwan, which is used because of liver-tonic, immunstimulating, antioxydative,... actions and is called "King Medicine".

Bletilla striata:

is described in China, Tibet and Mongolia as euphoriant, blood-purifying and blood-clotting.

Cymbidium ensifolium:

The intoxicating fragrance was inhaled by the japanese empress.

Eulophia cucullata:

Used in Africa as antiepileptic

Goodyera schlechtendaliana:

Sedative and anticonvulsant because of its goodyerin- content. It also contains the "GHB- glycoside" goodyeroside B.

Jumellea fragrans syn. Angraecum fragrans:

In Mauritius there is made a sedative tea from this plant.

Tridactyle tricuspis:

In Afrika used against madness

Ghost-orchid (Polyrhiza lindenii):

Used psychoactive in the film "Adaptation".

thanks 4 all the compliments... i like to share knowledge about our nature B)

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Orchid seed sterilization is not too tricky. Wash once with 1% Sodium hypochlorite, then 4 times with sterile water.

The hard part is symbiotic germination with mycorrhiza!

I wonder how often these cases of inebriated pollinating insects are due not to any nectar physiology but natural yeasts fermenting the nectar crop. Anyone know anything about alcohol metabolism in hymenopterans???

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I absolutely agree, the most important part are mycorrhiza (we say Amme, wich means nurse or nanny) for germination of the seeds, because the have no endosperm.

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Orchid seed sterilization is not too tricky. Wash once with 1% Sodium hypochlorite, then 4 times with sterile water.

The hard part is symbiotic germination with mycorrhiza!

I've never done any symbiotic germination, wondering if they use selective substrates ( ie ones where the mycorrhiza don't get so well established that they overpower the germinating seed )

And where would one source a pure symbiotic culture?

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When i sow orchid seed i only use ripe pod that have not yet split. the pod is dipped for 2 minutes in 5% Sodium hypochlorite,then rinsed in sterile water, then dipped for 2 minutes in 3% hydrogen peroxide, then rinsed in sterile water, then dipped for 1 minute in 80% alcohol, then rinsed in sterile water. Then the pod is torn open, not cut and seed is then scraped out & sown onto media.

Media's vary from species to species & many of the rarer ones dont have protocols yet so its best guess a lot of the time, sometimes you win sometimes you don't.

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When i sow orchid seed i only use ripe pod that have not yet split. the pod is dipped for 2 minutes in 5% Sodium hypochlorite,then rinsed in sterile water, then dipped for 2 minutes in 3% hydrogen peroxide, then rinsed in sterile water, then dipped for 1 minute in 80% alcohol, then rinsed in sterile water. Then the pod is torn open, not cut and seed is then scraped out & sown onto media.

Nice one. Was all this done in a sterile environment?

I find flaming by dipping into 70% ETOH and torching with a lighter works well, providing it is carefully handled so you don't set fire to your sleeve ;) But pods do have to be without blemish or any breaks- that goes for the stalk end too

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Yeah tiss all done in front of my laminar.

I clock up more laminar hours doing orchid seed for my outlaws than i do Myco work at present.

Yeah i generally discard any broken or split pods, it has to be a VERY special plant for me to attempt to extract clean seed from a damaged pod.

And your right to mention the stalk, they should be cut, not torn & should be as long as possible. my mother outlaw dips the cut end in hot wax as soon as she cuts them, then washes them & bags them until she drops them around.

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I wonder how often these cases of inebriated pollinating insects are due not to any nectar physiology but natural yeasts fermenting the nectar crop. Anyone know anything about alcohol metabolism in hymenopterans???

They discuss it in this paper

The quantity of ethanol that is produced by the microorganisms would have to be enormous, to counterbalance its evaporation speed and to maintain its overpowering properties

In short, they think that ethanol might be a factor in making the pollinating insects intoxicated (apparently the smell attracts them, but it's not known if there's enough in the flower to actually get them drunk), but not the main/only factor in the case of this particular orchid.

I think ethanol works on most animals, insects included.

Edited by Anodyne

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