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Calea Z. and Silene Capensis...anybody else not notice any effects?

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Hey hey.

Just been thinking a lot about dreams lately and wanted to post this up while it was on my mind.

I've always been fascinated by dreams, and naturally my fascination with ethnobotanicals seemed a natural match...so I looked into it, and hear that Calea Zacatechichi and Silene Capensis were both reported to be potentiators and intensifiers of the dream experience.

I have experimented with both, but to no noticeable effect. I followed the generally recommended method of ingestion for both - the only difference being that I used cut-short filters to smoke the Calea because I really dislike harsh, raw, hot smoke - although I smoked up to three of these cigarettes to make up for it, and also drank a strong tea of it...but still nothing.

Silene Capensis I followed the foaming/frothing thing to a T, but didn't get anything.

Just wondering if anybody has had any experiences to the contrary or would suggest looking into these plants again?

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I worked with the calea for about 4 days before I had any results. Foul tasting tea & an awkward to smoke cigarette. The dream I did have after about 4 days was extremely lucid & I will be trying it again soon.

Good luck with it all Gman... :wink:

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Thanks mate.

I think that's the trouble with it though...everybody has vivid dreams sometimes anyway, at least to an extent. So it's hard to determine any kind of causality.

It could even just be focusing intensely on dreams for a period of time that produces the effect, or placebo, or any number of things...too many variables.

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The dream I had was so lucid it woke me up. I had to take a minute or so to get my bearings & realise it was a dream & not reality. Take note, the term I used was lucid, not vivid.

It's up to you, but I would definitely recommend persevering with it... :)

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True, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth sorry. I was only speaking in generalities.

Although it is worth noting that the phenomena of lucid dreaming has been observed in Western society for a long time before we'd ever heard of any "dream-plants". That being said, I always keep an open (yet skeptical) mind, and would be willing to try this again. From the sounds of things I may not have taken a large enough dose (I couldn't "hear my heartbeat"). So it might be worth trying again with an uber-concentrated tincture or something..?

What was the method that finally "did it" for you?

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My experiments with this may also be helpful...

Daily cannabis use for 1+ month = Lucid dreaming decreased significantly

Cold turkey break for 1-3(minimum) days = A flood of lucidity that then tapered off gradually

Calea + cannabis = little / no lucid experience increase

Calea + cannabis break = Significant increase in lucid dream occurrence.

...I've only started trying some Valerian root powder before bed and it feels a little inconsistent with its results

So perhaps if you're not already doing so, just ingest the Calea with no other variables.

Lucid dreaming is just incredible...Really demonstrates how infinitely powerful the brain can be. Good luck!

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Silene capensis, seems to have negative tolerance, meaning the effects only appear after a few day's, and might get stronger the longer you take it. some good threads here about silene, well worth searching for.

lucid dreaming beats everything, i mean human flight is ok.

the most negative dreaming experience for me is double awakening, with a nightmare scenario (just being about to be murdered, than wake up, thank god you think, but the murderer is still there, and swings his knife towards you, quick wake up again, quick...

Edited by planthelper
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True, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth sorry. I was only speaking in generalities.

All's cool man, just making sure we were batting on the same pitch... :wink:

What was the method that finally "did it" for you?

4 nights of that foul tea, brewed up in a saucepan for about an hour...I found it easier to drink cold. Probably the equivalent of 2 rollies/night, but smoked through a pipe with a large cone piece...like an opium pipe.

No other stimulants or depressants leading up to, or during the process.

Night 4 had me sitting bolt upright in bed not knowing whether I was dreaming or having a real life experience. Scared the shit out of my partner, I was asking her where this other person was...she had no idea what I was talking about...lol

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I will add my experience, which was mostly derived from reading other people experiences on this forum! I can't recommend the search engine highly enough.

* Calea extract (acetone made): ingested equiv to the traditional "one cupped handful" dose immediately before bed. Only minor lucid experience, one dream I remember so distinctly is picking up a pack of Kettle chips off the shelf in a supermarket and I was sooooo amazed at being able to feel the texture of the bag in my dream. Main effect was rather the amazing feeling I got when I woke up, usually after ingesting this home-made extract I would wake up 2-4 hours earlier than normal feeling absolutely amazing and happy.

* Calea smoked (bong): Prepare for bed. Turn off all the lights. It's gotta be really dark already! Smoking this substanc while the lights are on, doesn't seem to work for me. Smoke 5-10 cones of the pure herb in a row and immediately go to bed. Strong lucid dreams and amazing feeling on wakeup. Obviously that's a lot to smoke before bed but my experiments indicated that lower doses were ineffective.

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My experiments with this may also be helpful...

Daily cannabis use for 1+ month = Lucid dreaming decreased significantly

Cold turkey break for 1-3(minimum) days = A flood of lucidity that then tapered off gradually

Calea + cannabis = little / no lucid experience increase

Calea + cannabis break = Significant increase in lucid dream occurrence.

...I've only started trying some Valerian root powder before bed and it feels a little inconsistent with its results

So perhaps if you're not already doing so, just ingest the Calea with no other variables.

Lucid dreaming is just incredible...Really demonstrates how infinitely powerful the brain can be. Good luck!

This is all about the cannabis and not really about the Calea. What you are describing is the depleting/repleting effect of cannabis on serotonergic and dopaminergic neurotransmitters.

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I had excellent results with Calea.

I tried smoking plain Calea leaves, and put 1 gram in a cup of tea boiled for 20 mins - didn't have any above average experience - but I'm an avid lucid dreamer so wanted to try more.

I bought some 10x Calea extract, put 3/4 of a gram in 2 capsules, ate them and smoked a Calea cig with a sprinkle of 10x in it:

When i layed down my heart was beating heavily, a really nice solid beat. I could feel it in the side of my throat, but it wasn't uncomfortable - rhythmic and drum like but not racing, just solid. I closed me eyes and had fully awake CEV's after about 10-15 mins of relaxing; It was a shimmering effect - very light sleep drifted in and then full vivid dreaming.

My lucidity began with me in the kitchen, standing amazed that I was actually aware i was dreaming SO clearly. It took me a little bit to maintain this but I became confortable when I fully realised that I was dreaming and in full control. I decided to go to the bathroom and look in the mirror - I was instantly there without travelling there in the normal sense - and my face in the mirror kept changing between all ages of me - I watched and played with that for about a mintue or 2, but I could feel it becoming weird - then I wanted to fly and found myself in an old wooden church where I could gently rise off the floor and it was no effort - it was fantastic, I played in there for hours. The dream ended when I was upside down on the wooden roof looking up at the floor and I thought, wow this is so wrong - and doooonk - I was awake and excited... I had about 4 such episodes that night, just relaxing and letting it come back on.

I could actually see a golden'ish shimmery'ness to my closed eye normal dark greenish reddish dotty sorta thing that I usually see. Quite hard to explain now that I come to write it, but it was a veil, and I could relax and let it come, or I could ponder on it and it'd stay back a bit. I think I got the dose bang on, maybe slightly over. about 3-5 grams I would say. Well worth it. The capsule method overcame the taste which for me was a real plus plus plus.

Have a large chunk, you'll know the heart beat feeling, it's unmistakable.

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I've been trying to find the article I read on S. Capensis - I have the plant and its lovely, but from the article I read it's not a one hit wonder.

You take the froth as much as you can fit in as many times as you can for 3 days, this will bring you into a dreaming state for a few days to a week. If you take the herb every day for a week, your dreams are with you for a week or more. If you take it for a month or more, you're permanently changed and lucid dreaming and dreams in general will be changed for you for years, if not permanently. I'll really try to find the article, it may even be here on SAB - I'm off ot bed now though - and I'm a bit too tired to have Calea tonight, but I'm so glad you posted this article, my dreams have been great lately, but a little kick would be wonderful - maybe tomorrow night :)

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^^^

If you do track down that S. Capensis article, let us know. Sounds pretty interesting.

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I was awake and excited...

i guess the excitement following special & lucid dreams is the hallmark, which means it was an incredible experience.

one time, this excitment lasted for me, for a couple of day's, slowly getting weaker and weaker, with time.

indiandreaming, your above 2 posts are a lovely and fantastic read!

Edited by planthelper
an incredible, not a incredible

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An interesting addition to the conversation: as I scrolled through the substances in Erowid's "Experience Vault", I was kinda shocked and amused to see "cheese" listed there. So I went ahead and read a CHEESE TRIP REPORT hahah. For those who are curious this is it: http://www.erowid.or...xp.php?ID=92001

After wiki'ing the shit out of it, it turns out that yep, cheese can be a dream-potentiator: http://en.wikipedia....ect_on_dreaming

How bizarre :-/

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Cheese is listed right in there between 'chamomile' and 'chloroform' haha. Gotta love Erowid.

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I'm actually looking for some seeds of either plant at present, anyone got a few spare to trade or sell? Will put something up in Classifieds too.

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Mugwort under your pillow actually works really well for vivid pleasant dreams, very refreshing sleep too. I pop about 2 heaped tablespoons in one of those little drawstring fine mesh bags and stick it under my nose, not under the pillow. I've never smoked it or drank a tea of it, but apparently it works well that way too. I've probably done this 10 or more times and have had great dreams every time. I gave it to 2 friends as well, and they both said they had wild and vivid dreams. One girl doesn't dream much at all and she was blown away by the clarity - Keep this one away from pregnant girls though, mugwort and pregnancy don't mix.

I haven't managed to find the Silene thread I read, I'm really wracking my brain to remember where I saw it. I went dream herb crazy for a while and found it then. I can even picture the format of the thread but no luck finding it. I never ended up trying S. capensis because mugwort and Calea work really well for me. Will try it when my little plant becomes a big plant one day...

Edited by IndianDreaming

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I haven't managed to find the Silene thread I read, I'm really wracking my brain to remember where I saw it. I went dream herb crazy for a while and found it then.

it seemed to me aswell that, when i got my results searching for silene threads, the one i remebered was not there, but it sure hasn't got lost.

you might be a better searcher than me, but maybe this will help you, unless you already did do it this way...

go advanced search, press ctrl to high lite most forums for the search, and aswell put in a member name, in the appropiate field!

the thread i remebered was started or well supported, by t st tantra, only 90% sure though.

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Found it! I ended up searching for 'forked stick' - http://www.shaman-au...=1

Plenty of good info in there ^ - Especially the bit 'A Xhosa initiate is never finished drinking from the can until he/she belches.'

We seem to do things differently, we say 1 gram of this or that... They seem to 'Consume until a specific effect appears' - Which is probably a good way of doing things that have a huge margin of error and may have different effects based on body mass and the like, but not so good if you're doing things that are toxic at little or moderate doses...

With the Calea I took, I tried 0.5, 1, 1.5 grams 3-4 times before doing the equivalent of 5-7 grams in one go. You can inch things up but it's hard to inch them down - Calea felt like it could cause some anxiety with the raised heatbeat if you took 7+ grams. Best to have a bit and then a bit more till you work out what works for you i guess, but there will be a point where it works... all the failed reports I've read are in the 1-3 gram range, which is too low I found (for me anyway: 5'11" - bout 85kgs, male, handsome... haha :)).

Edited by IndianDreaming
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Yeah, I found 5 grams clearly effective for me (5' 10", 53 kg, stoic features, flowing hair :P ) but at that dose I walked the border of causing sleep-preventing stimulation and also causing myself to wake up breifly between each dream which was annoying because with Calea I could have like 8 dreams. I ended up deciding that those effects are a fair goal to look for so one can just back-peddle half a gram or a gram and get maximum effects. Its much easier to judge too much than trying to decide just how much dreams were altered by various too-small doses, IMO.

May want to avoid that (and any Calea, really) if you have a serious heart condition that would prevent you from drinking lots of espresso.

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Dreamherbs - Plants with oneirogenic action

Calea zacatechichi- leaves (Mexican Dreamherb)

(I noticed a definitive action at about 1g of the dry extract in capsules before going to bed)

16428738-holder-6645b56e0b1fd9e0efbc98a3511a567e.jpg

Entada rheedii- seeds (African dreamherb)

(The seeds of this vine are used by south-african medicine man for communicating with the spirit-world and to induce lucid dreams. It should increase attention during the REM-phase of sleep.)

16428741-holder-b8470e7a533b630768e2b23d2223d83b.jpg

Couroupita guianensis- leaves (Canonball Tree)

(dream-stimulating medicine in Amazonia and Ayahuasca-additive. The indole-alkaloids Couroupitine A and B were found.)

16428742-holder-04533420301bc1482b36fb2e92b4d069.jpg

Silene capensis- root (African Dreamroot)

(The Xhosa in South-africa use this sacred plant for inducing vivid lucid dreams during the initiation of shamans. It is one of the most potent oneirogens. For me a small amount can induce very strong dream-enhancement.)

16428751-holder-0f7e0b5f9881c16e5ca403ef960f10ce.jpg

Artemisia vulgaris- twigs (Mugwort)

(The mugwort is known for its dream-enhancing properties and can amplify the coulouration, but can also induce nightmares.)

Ilex guayusa- leaves (Guayusa)

(Guayusa-leaves have a high caffeine-content, but paradoxical it can improve the recollection of dreams.) 24-fold-enlargement of dried leaf:

16428763-holder-129eda991a867a8c56a4fdff17f23a14.jpg

Alepidea amatymbica- root (Ikhathazo)

(In South-Africa it is used by Sangomas (medicine man) for inducing clear dreams of spirits of the ancestors. The Xhosa use it in all of their rituals. Smoking of the root could induce vivid dreams. There were found Kauren-Diterpenes.)

16428776-holder-6a30ef0fad2e8e731ecc889bcf7767fa.jpg

Lycoris radiata- bulbs (Red Spiderlily)

(The bulbs of this lily contains Galantamine, which enhances the mental ability (acetylcholine- stimulant). For this compound a prolonging effect on the REM-sleep and an improvement of the recollection was found.)

16428782-holder-f92f45fdb532a224f86d20163b5f2712.jpg

Salvia nemorosa- leaves (Steppen-sage)

(This sage could make dreams more vivid after oral ingestion. There were found analgetic and opioid effects.)

16428783-holder-3ef2b5d2e37397c0af0d233747a3a7cc.jpg

Salvia leucantha- leaves (Mexican Bush-sage)

(Smoking of the leaves could prolong dreams, but not many studies.)

16428784-holder-b71bcdeb92e8e52ca04ad4abecbc3844.jpg

Edited by mindperformer
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Are you experienced with Lycoris radiata? It sounds interesting and is phenomenally cold hardy (tolerating -35 to -40° C, apparently)

Reports are a bit inconsistent, some calling the bulb a poison while others call its decoction an emetic and expectorant used to counteract 'poison'.

Edit: Good timing, Silene cross-post from the DMT-Nexus:

I used it about everyday for about 3 months and during this time put a lot more intention in my life towards dreaming. During this time, I had a lot more lucid dreams, certainly more vivid and better dream recall. I look forward to using it again one day - they say they if one uses it every day for 3 months, it becomes permanent, and further use is not necessary - however I found this is not the case.

My technique: I used to add 1 gram of powdered root bark to a 1.25 litre plastic bottle and add water and shake it to produce the froth. I would then just squeeze the bottle to get the froth out and eat it like that. I would do this as much as I could in the mornings, until I could not get any more froth or until I could not eat any more.

Edited by Auxin

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Lycoris radiata isn't the only Amaryllidaceae sp to contain Galantamine. Unfortunately, I can't find a sp that has Galantamine that doesn't have any other toxic alkaloids such as Lycorine - and I don't know how much of a problem that is, maybe Lycorine isn't so bad. Either way I, like Auxin, would love to hear from anyone who has used this plant.

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hi, mindperformer, wellcome to the forums! :)

so you speak wienerisch {wearnerisch (viennese german)}, i migrated from vie, 21 years ago.

habedehre!

i drucks net durch, a weanna im forum, i hoff i feu de net zu oarg on, mita zeit, weu mir get oft des gimpfte auf, oba des is allaweu, eh mei schuld. i glaub oba des silene gschloda woxt guat bei diar.

i'm deeply impressed by your pic's and knowledge, i hope you will stay and post a lot.

i haven't seen all your posts yet, but that caapi of yours is a stunner!! :wub:

many of those plants you care for, are damm, diddly, difficult to grow, in a cold climat like vienna, you must be pretty good.

Edited by planthelper
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